Maybe Tavares is the problem

[mikeyz]

No, I don't, which means they sometimes matter, which is even more idiotic.

Lol. No it's not idiotic at all.

Have you ever heard of the old sports adage "Winning cures and masks everything"?

It's a Tale As Old As Time in the sports world.

 

[bax]

Tavares is absolutely one of the problems. He was 6 years ago and continues to this day.
The Tavares signing was the beginning of the end of ever having playoff success with this core 4

Agreed on that. He's a good player but they should have focused on defence and goaltending.

 

[Racer88]

Agreed on that. He's a good player but they should have focused on defence and goaltending.

100%

 

[arso40]

Not only is that statement just wrong (if anything, Nylander is his ceiling, not his floor), but why bring up Nylander in a discussion about Marner and Tavares?

That's what I'll never seem to understand that's the marnerites go to move when exposing marners laccluster play like nylander for one out played marner in the clutch both in regular season and playoffs this marner is a better player narrative should have died by now

 

[arso40]

Team stats for Marners down year, Nylander's breakout year.

View attachment 883951

You call it a breakout year were he's had 3 consecutive career high seasons and spent time on the third line he puts up numbers despite getting the shit end of the sticc while marner gets catered to get over it he's not the better player anymore you can't even play him with matthews and tricc ppl anymore

just because JT hangs around the crease doesn't mean he ''competes to the best of his abilities''

he's already made his cash but his main priority is still padding his stats while he cheats on D and ignores teammates looking for his

but hey it's been 20 yrs of blaming everyone but JT so i guess why should we stop now !

as for Marner , i look him the same way i would Patty Kane and that is i'm not looking for him to bang and crash but to create for his teammates and that's why the Hawks used him with players that compliment his game and not to try to prop up an overrated center

He's no patty Kane at all if he even gave us 70 percent vintage patty Kane the marner thread wouldn't exist

 

[Stephen]

I’m not a JT guy at all and I freely vocalize my displeasure at the quality of his game throughout the year. And I do think his reputation as a leader and veteran is quite overblown. And he’s overpaid like crazy. And I can’t wait for his contract to run out.

But I’ve come to believe that our two biggest issues in the playoffs are Mitch Marner at 1, and Auston Matthews at 2. Simply put. If those guys actually delivered at the very top of the roster, everything falls into place. You can overcome some sloppy D, some shaky goaltending. Get by the rough patches and maybe win a round here and there. Behind two alphas who are carrying the mail, JT and Nylander’s contributions in a 7 game series are acceptable. It’s what’s missing at the very top that is the issue.

 

[keonsbitterness]

By this logic, game 7 is likely the most important, correct?

Kucherov has fewer points than Marner in game 7s, does this mean Marner > Kucherov in the playoffs?

Marner's 2019-24 game 5-7 stats are being compared to the rest of the core. What does Kucherov have to do with that?

 

[notbias]

Marner's 2019-24 game 5-7 stats are being compared to the rest of the core. What does Kucherov have to do with that?

Timing of points is the most important thing clearly, just pointing out that Marner > Kucherov because Marner outperforms him in game 7s, it is simple logic that follows the original post.

 

[BraveCanadian]

You don’t even get to games 5-7 unless someone puts up points in games 1-4 on this team with an anemic offence in the playoffs.

 

[hotpaws]

He's no patty Kane at all if he even gave us 70 percent vintage patty Kane the marner thread wouldn't exist

vintage Kane , old Kane , child Kane it doesn't make any difference , Patty was strictly a soft offensive player who was weak defensively

you can argue Kane may have had a few better offensive playoffs during his career and that's fine but the main difference between how the two are viewed are the teams they played on as well as their linemates

The Hawks were a much deeper team up front and had a great top 4 D , there stars didn't have to carry the same load as ours do but then again there stars didn't chew up the same amount of cap .

 

[Stephen]

You don’t even get to games 5-7 unless someone puts up points in games 1-4 on this team with an anemic offence in the playoffs.

The offense is anemic because Matthews and Marner don’t deliver in the first place. Watch any other team, any other series. The first round shouldn’t be a life and death struggle to get to 2-1. Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews have been failing to deliver for 8 years at a superstar level and we’ve been wasting time blaming everything else.

 

[notbias]

The offense is anemic because Matthews and Marner don’t deliver in the first place. Watch any other team, any other series. The first round shouldn’t be a life and death struggle to get to 2-1. Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews have been failing to deliver for 8 years at a superstar level and we’ve been wasting time blaming everything else.

I have no clue how Nylander gets no blame anymore.

 

[hotpaws]

I’m not a JT guy at all and I freely vocalize my displeasure at the quality of his game throughout the year. And I do think his reputation as a leader and veteran is quite overblown. And he’s overpaid like crazy. And I can’t wait for his contract to run out.

But I’ve come to believe that our two biggest issues in the playoffs are Mitch Marner at 1, and Auston Matthews at 2. Simply put. If those guys actually delivered at the very top of the roster, everything falls into place. You can overcome some sloppy D, some shaky goaltending. Get by the rough patches and maybe win a round here and there. Behind two alphas who are carrying the mail, JT and Nylander’s contributions in a 7 game series are acceptable. It’s what’s missing at the very top that is the issue.

I understand what your saying but Tavares make the same as M and M so the expectations should be the same for all 3 , the blame doesn't get shifted away from JT just because he's a much worse player .

and i'll add that 2 pts in 7 games isn't acceptable from your 11m second line C

 

[Stephen]

I understand what your saying but Tavares make the same as M and M so the expectations should be the same for all 3 , the blame doesn't get shifted away from JT just because he's a much worse player .

and i'll add that 2 pts in 7 games isn't acceptable from your 11m second line C

Yeah that’s why I can’t wait for Tavares’ contract to run out. But for lowered expectations and what he actually is, a series OT winner and that set up for Knies in OT is meh good enough for a fourth best forward if our two superstars actually brought the level of play they’re supposed to.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Timing of points is the most important thing clearly, just pointing out that Marner > Kucherov because Marner outperforms him in game 7s, it is simple logic that follows the original post.

Since you're desperate to go there, for the period being discussed (2019-24), we've played 2 more game 7s than Tampa. I'll expect a Marner vs every Tampa player deep dive statistical analysis from you.

 

[Stephen]

View attachment 884206

I have no clue how Nylander gets no blame anymore.

He made 59% of Matthews salary and scored more he last 3 Leafs goals in the series.

 

[joepeps]

View attachment 884206

I have no clue how Nylander gets no blame anymore.

a lot of Marners points are in the same game and in blowouts... Hes rarely score key goals and battling.

 

[notbias]

a lot of Marners points are in the same game and in blowouts... Hes rarely score key goals and battling.

Want to do the breakdown of this?

He made 59% of Matthews salary and scored more he last 3 Leafs goals in the series.

Goals only matter now?

Since you're desperate to go there, for the period being discussed (2019-24), we've played 2 more game 7s than Tampa. I'll expect a Marner vs every Tampa player deep dive statistical analysis from you.

I'm not the one claiming these stupid stats, I'm mocking them.

 

[Stephen]

Goals only matter now?

Goals are better than sweet eff all, for example.

 

[notbias]

Goals are better than sweet eff all, for example.

But the other players are putting up more points, not sweet eff all.

 

[Stephen]

But the other players are putting up more points, not sweet eff all.

Mitch Marner’s stats line can kick rocks. 3 points in 7 games and we’re talking about cookies.

 

[notbias]

Mitch Marner’s stats line can kick rocks. 3 points in 7 games and we’re talking about cookies.

We're just talking about this year? Sure Nylander was second best behind Matthews.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I'm not the one claiming these stupid stats, I'm mocking them.

Claiming? So they're not real?

 

[Racer88]

How sad that we are even able to argue about which one of our 11 million dollar players suck the most because by and large none of them really do anything to get us over the hump.
It’s like arguing which end of the titanic went under the water first……..it really doesn’t matter because the result is always the same.
What we should all be concerned about is that it looks like the new management is simply going to run it back again

 

[LeafEgo]

I understand what your saying but Tavares make the same as M and M so the expectations should be the same for all 3 , the blame doesn't get shifted away from JT just because he's a much worse player .

and i'll add that 2 pts in 7 games isn't acceptable from your 11m second line C

JT wasn't signed to his contract with the expectation that he would be one of the best players in the league at age 33. I dont think that was the expectation in year one of the contract - he had 37 goals and 84 points when we signed him, a career high.

Say what you want about Dubie, but JT has pretty much lived up to exactly what should have been expected. This was we paid for, albeit stupidly.