Prospect Info: Max Guenette RD 3 year elc signed

[Cosmix]

Nobody thinks that and I bet you know that. People just can't fathom being pessimistic about something you put so much time, effort and emotion into. And the same people believe the team is moving in the right direction and are happy to give it a little slack.

We were 3 points out of a playoff spot at one point and it crashed down against the worst team in the league (CHI) and then again against another terrible team (who was a actually very good, VAN). We were right there and blowing it against those teams, to me, is what was against the odds.

How on earth are the people that gave up in November exonerated by us not making the playoffs in the end? The losers that can't just see the growth and hope for the best. They're the ones that get to say 'I told ya so' right now...? Bush league.

We all pour so much into this and it's all undeniably moving in the right direction, yet some people can't be positive. It's baffling. I'd love to see a social function with the different personality types at play here in person. You'd have a dark anti-social corner of guys who think they're right about everything yet don't really excel at anything and then you'd have a bunch of other people having fun.

Hopefully next season brings us together.

This comment is hyperbole: "How on earth are the people that gave up in November exonerated by us not making the playoffs in the end? The losers that can't just see the growth and hope for the best. They're the ones that get to say 'I told ya so' right now...? Bush league."

 

[Ice-Tray]

Loser mentality lol... DJ Dorion have been proving to be the losers for a while. So who has loser mentality? People who demand more competent personnel or people who defend them blindly for everything?

It's not about being right, it's about assessing situations properly. I have talked about all the team mismanagements for years and without the benefit of hindsight most of the time... Dorion makes splash moves that fools the average fan but if you analyze deeper, you see how much he sabotages his own product by many, but less popular, bad moves. Kind of a 1 step forward 2 steps back situation.



I hope you're not trying to judge people based on their opinions on this forum, you'd be surprising at how totally misleading it could be. It feels like you think that I fit what you're describing here but ask the 2 guys I met from this forum, Viletho and jules6565, if I'm anything of a "dark anti-social" guy lol

Having higher standards and demanding excellence is not being anti-social or having a loser mentality... lol it's actually the opposite. We have been through an earth scorched rebuild, we can't settle for average/decent results. We need to become a top team for a long time

In the meantime, folks like me think we have been wasting time. We don't expect them to win the Cup tomorrow but the progress is too slow. We haven't even started to learn about "losing in the playoffs" like the Oilers, AVs, Leafs, etc did. Thomas Chabot will turn 27 y/o next season, Taylor hall made the playoffs for the first time at 26 y/o... Let that sink in.

Yes, loser mentality.

- You aren’t demanding anything, you are complaining on the internet about a team that has been leaving you behind for a few seasons now.

- You don’t have any special deeper understanding of things dude, you just think you do, and it’s spiralling you off in to oblivion.

- No one in their right mind would look at our team and claim that we have been take one step forward and two steps back, at best you could argue the opposite. That should really be reason for you to take a step back and examine your evaluation skills. It is verifiably incorrect and out of touch.

- If a poster will minimize trading for DBC, or Chycrun, or signing G or Stu or Zub or Norris or Brady as a ‘splash move’ move, while deriding the team for massive blunders like putting Balcers on waivers, I pretty much know everything I need to know about that poster‘s internal narrative.

 

[BondraTime]

I dunno i think they just sign him to a two way deal and see if he makes it. At the start of the season there are lots of failed prospects like him that get sent down that no one touches.

Good for Guenette to earn the call up. I thought JBD was solid the last few games as well.

Thomson still has a year on his ELC remaining, he’s signed next year regardless.

They don’t see him in their future, that is pretty obvious I think.

 

[Billy Bridges]

Lassi looks like he's done with the org then. Someone will pick him up on waivers next year.

Doubt it, he would have to play on an NHL roster if he gets picked up. If he hasn't been able to make one of the worst teams in the league, I can't see another team playing him. Unless the Sens evaluation of him is way off, which could be the case, they still can't evaluate pro talent.

 

[DueDiligence]

Yes, loser mentality.

- You aren’t demanding anything, you are complaining on the internet about a team that has been leaving you behind for a few seasons now.

- You don’t have any special deeper understanding of things dude, you just think you do, and it’s spiralling you off in to oblivion.

- No one in their right mind would look at our team and claim that we have been take one step forward and two steps back, at best you could argue the opposite. That should really be reason for you to take a step back and examine your evaluation skills. It is verifiably incorrect and out of touch.

- If a poster will minimize trading for DBC, or Chycrun, or signing G or Stu or Zub or Norris or Brady as a ‘splash move’ move, while deriding the team for massive blunders like putting Balcers on waivers, I pretty much know everything I need to know about that poster‘s internal narrative.

The team has moved forward but with the big moves they made( DBC and CG) and giving out the contracts they have, they still are outside the playoffs. Compared to Buffalo and Detroit, 2 teams they will be fighting with next year to get in, the Sens have no substantial cap space to work with and no quality draft picks this summer.
As Sens fans we'd better hope that the core keeps getting better and achieve at a higher rate than their rivals.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The team has moved forward but with the big moves they made( DBC and CG) and giving out the contracts they have, they still are outside the playoffs. Compared to Buffalo and Detroit, 2 teams they will be fighting with next year to get in, the Sens have no substantial cap space to work with and no quality draft picks this summer.
As Sens fans we'd better hope that the core keeps getting better and achieve at a higher rate than their rivals.

We have 15 million in cap space, with players to sign no? And then we have a ton of dead space coming off the books next season, and the cap is going up substantially. The cap is pinched this year, but generally is not a problem for us.

I won’t touch the playoff comment because there was no expectation to make the playoffs this season, but even still we were key injuries away from exceeding expectations for a young team.

I’m not scared of our rivals. Neither of them are in any better a position than we are. Everyone needs to sign their own young talent, and our team stacks up quite nicely as it is right now.

Should be a great changing of the guard.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yes, loser mentality.

- You aren’t demanding anything, you are complaining on the internet about a team that has been leaving you behind for a few seasons now.

- You don’t have any special deeper understanding of things dude, you just think you do, and it’s spiralling you off in to oblivion.

- No one in their right mind would look at our team and claim that we have been take one step forward and two steps back, at best you could argue the opposite. That should really be reason for you to take a step back and examine your evaluation skills. It is verifiably incorrect and out of touch.

- If a poster will minimize trading for DBC, or Chycrun, or signing G or Stu or Zub or Norris or Brady as a ‘splash move’ move, while deriding the team for massive blunders like putting Balcers on waivers, I pretty much know everything I need to know about that poster‘s internal narrative.

There's maybe 2-3 other posters who think like you do but yet it's all of us who are out of touch

This management and coaching is so optimal, they're the best and it shows in the results. It's just us who are spiraling into oblivion

And to the last point, if that's what you take out of my analysis, maybe you should listen to your advice and examine your own understanding/reading skills.

It's like when I was arguing that this team didn't have veteran support a few years ago and I was getting a list of all the greats vets we had. I was surely shown lol

But yeah let's ignore reality that the clock has been ticking. Chabot and Tkachuk 5 years left, Batherson 4 years left, Giroux and Chychrun 2 years left. Our prospect pool is so good due to our elite asset management and drafting that we'll be able to replace those guys effortlessly if/when they age or decide to go the UFA route.

It's not about making splash moves, it's about making the RIGHT moves... The right moves would have been to keep Paul, Brown, Gustavsson and go after a top-4 RHD (not like we didn't have assets considering what was spent on DeBrincat/Chychrun) instead of going for DeBrincat, Joseph, Talbot and Hamonic. Plus, sink or swim with the same coaching staff. Result : we sucked 5v5 and our bottom-6 was probably the worst in the NHL. Our defense was still not properly constructed on top of we're just not "playing the right way"

We could possibly make the time wasted back by starting to win in the playoffs next year, but there's also the possibility that it takes several years before winning a round against a top team. Chabot might be 30 y/o by then... But hey, no problem... expecting/wanting more is a loser mentality

 

[DueDiligence]

We have 15 million in cap space, with players to sign no? And then we have a ton of dead space coming off the books next season, and the cap is going up substantially. The cap is pinched this year, but generally is not a problem for us.

I won’t touch the playoff comment because there was no expectation to make the playoffs this season, but even still we were key injuries away from exceeding expectations for a young team.

I’m not scared of our rivals. Neither of them are in any better a position than we are. Everyone needs to sign their own young talent, and our team stacks up quite nicely as it is right now.

Should be a great changing of the guard.

Go check out cap friendly and tell me how Detroit and especially Buffalo are not in better shape than the Sens next year??? The Sens have 68 million committed in salary and "dead cap" with only 8 forward positions filled , 5 Dmen and 2 goalies. The leaves $14.5 million to fill the remaining spots. Guys who need contracts that you would want to keep are Debrincat, Pinto, Branstrom with guys like Hamonic , Watson and Talbot walking unless they take large paycuts.
Bottom line is there is no room to go out and get another decent player unless you trade away some substantial salary.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Go check out cap friendly and tell me how Detroit and especially Buffalo are not in better shape than the Sens next year??? The Sens have 68 million committed in salary and "dead cap" with only 8 forward positions filled , 5 Dmen and 2 goalies. The leaves $14.5 million to fill the remaining spots. Guys who need contracts that you would want to keep are Debrincat, Pinto, Branstrom with guys like Hamonic , Watson and Talbot walking unless they take large paycuts.
Bottom line is there is no room to go out and get another decent player unless you trade away some substantial salary.

We don’t really need to go out and get another decent player this year though, and as the cap goes up we will have more and more room for bottom six guys and long term deals for guys like Sandy

. The things is, we don’t really need to add from the outside, we have prospects that need looks. A goalie to play with Forsberg is the only outside player we actually need.

Those teams are in better cap situations because they don’t have as many good players signed to long term deals….. yet. They aren’t going to go out and use all that space because they need to keep much of it available to sign their, like we did. Maybe they will go the bridge root instead, who knows.

My point is that they will have to commit much of their available room to existing players and prospects like we have. Cap space is just space until you use it. So far our big contracts have gone to players who are outplaying them, save for Norris who is a question mark until next season. I don’t see the problem.

We need depth, sure, but we need to keep our high end players even more.

In my opinion anyways.

 

[DueDiligence]

The things is, we don’t really need to add from the outside, we have prospects that need looks. A goalie to play with Forsberg is the only outside player we actually need.

So what are your expectations for this team going forward? That the core the Sens have is going to improve to the point they are a Cup contender? Or is making the playoffs again the ultimate goal?

 

[SpezDispenser]

As Sens fans we'd better hope that the core keeps getting better and achieve at a higher rate than their rivals.

Pretty confident in that personally. Detroit looks 2 years away from making any real noise, Buffalo has some great young players, but so do we and I think we take the next step with them and boot teams like Pittsburgh and/or the Islanders or Florida or whomever right out of a spot.

 

[Xspyrit]

So what are your expectations for this team going forward? That the core the Sens have is going to improve to the point they are a Cup contender? Or is making the playoffs again the ultimate goal?

Imagine if after going through a 6 years scorched earth rebuild, the optimal goal was to "make the playoffs!"

In the 10 years before the rebuild (Bryan Murray GM era), the Sens made the playoffs 6 times and won 3 rounds (first Dorion's year was Murray's team at 90%). We did NOT rebuild, only "on the fly"

Now we have missed for 6 years straight... considering the difference between a rebuild on the fly and "scorched earth"... I am expecting A LOT MORE success than the previous decade of competition

 

[barriers]

When's the last time one of y'all even mentioned Guenette?

 

[Ice-Tray]

So what are your expectations for this team going forward? That the core the Sens have is going to improve to the point they are a Cup contender? Or is making the playoffs again the ultimate goal?

Uhhh….. they could have made the playoffs this year with a little luck on the injury front.

Cup contenders obviously.

I guess you have simultaneous overly high expectations on how we should have done this season, and also low expectations of what this core is capable of going forward.

 

[Loach]

Loser mentality lol... DJ Dorion have been proving to be the losers for a while. So who has loser mentality? People who demand more competent personnel or people who defend them blindly for everything?

It's not about being right, it's about assessing situations properly. I have talked about all the team mismanagements for years and without the benefit of hindsight most of the time... Dorion makes splash moves that fools the average fan but if you analyze deeper, you see how much he sabotages his own product by many, but less popular, bad moves. Kind of a 1 step forward 2 steps back situation.



I hope you're not trying to judge people based on their opinions on this forum, you'd be surprised at how misleading it could be. It feels like you think that I fit what you're describing here but ask the 2 guys I met from this forum, Viletho and jules6565, if I'm anything of a "dark anti-social" guy lol

Having higher standards and demanding excellence is not being anti-social or having a loser mentality... lol it's actually the opposite. We have been through an earth scorched rebuild, we can't settle for average/decent results. We need to become a top team for a long time

In the meantime, folks like me think we have been wasting time. We don't expect them to win the Cup tomorrow but the progress is too slow. We haven't even started to learn about "losing in the playoffs" like the Oilers, AVs, Leafs, etc did. Thomas Chabot will turn 27 y/o next season, Taylor Hall made the playoffs for the first time at 26 y/o... Let that sink in.

I thought in a rebuild you wait until all your good, young, high draft picks are in their mid 20s...and then in one off season get 3-4 forwards for the bottom 6, 1 defenceman for the bottom pair, 2 goalies.....and then make the playoffs and win the cup that year. You don't fill out the team with players that fit the style and vision of the team during the rebuild to coincide with the young guys...that would be silly because you aren't trying to win a cup during a rebuild.


Or is that what a rebuild is?

 

[Ice-Tray]

I thought in a rebuild you wait until all your good, young, high draft picks are in their mid 20s...and then in one off season get 3-4 forwards for the bottom 6, 1 defenceman for the bottom pair, 2 goalies.....and then make the playoffs and win the cup that year. You don't fill out the team with players that fit the style and vision of the team during the rebuild to coincide with the young guys...that would be silly because you aren't trying to win a cup during a rebuild.


Or is that what a rebuild is?

I mean, it sounds like you’re talking about this season, or are you trying to be clever and take shots at our now dead and ever penny pinching owner who didn’t allow such expenditures.

Or, are you trying to say that management shouldn’t have been icing a lineup that got us the best draft picks possible in the early years of our rebuild, so we could build up on those high pucks.

Your response lacks clarity but makes up for it in tone

 

[aragorn]

The hole was dug so deep after November that I didn't see any meaningful game the rest of the way.

It looked like they were going to play meaningful games after winning 5 games straight late February and beginning of March, until they got embarrassed by Chicago 5-0

Season was pretty much over after that. I personally didn't see as they really played meaningful games, they were always trailing far behind



Our asset management has always been top notch, at this point it doesn't really mater anyways

Then open your eyes this team has been unbelievably entertaining to watch & while they didn't get into the playoffs stilled play some great games. What's happened to you? You used to be very positive with the team & you've turned to the dark side just when the team looks like it is going to be a playoff team next yr. Almost every expert I listened to had them just miss the playoffs including the Vegas odds & that's exactly where they ended up.

Did you think they were going to make the playoffs this yr especially considering all the injuries & using so many minor league goalies? You know hockey, how could you think they would do better when they are dressing 7 rookies in games & playing with minor league goalies? I don't get it, only one team wins the cup & every other team is hoping for entertaining games so that their fans will come back the following yr & that is exactly what this team has done. They show great potential for the future, get back on the bandwagon, they will have a much better roster to start next yr than they had this yr.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Then open your eyes this team has been unbelievably entertaining to watch & while they didn't get into the playoffs stilled play some great games. What's happened to you? You used to be very positive with the team & you've turned to the dark side just when the team looks like it is going to be a playoff team next yr. Almost every expert I listened to had them just miss the playoffs including the Vegas odds & that's exactly where they ended up.

Did you think they were going to make the playoffs this yr especially considering all the injuries & using so many minor league goalies? You know hockey, how could you think they would do better when they are dressing 7 rookies in games & playing with minor league goalies? I don't get it, only one team wins the cup & every other team is hoping for entertaining games so that their fans will come back the following yr & that is exactly what this team has done. They show great potential for the future, get back on the bandwagon, they will have a much better roster to start next yr than they had this yr.

Sellouts this year! Way higher average attendance…. The fanbase has bought in and are stoked. HF will follow soon enough.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Sorry not sure what you're saying here. Did I make a Guenette-Hamara comparison before? I don't recall that

Yeah, although maybe I misunderstood it and it was more of a pick comparison and less of a stylistic comparison. If stylistic though I like it, I see similarities in their games.


You 7 months ago:

He was our "Tomas Hamara style pick" from that 2019 draft. He instantly looked like a good pick despite not being a top-2 rounds pick.

 

[PlayersLtd]

In the meantime, folks like me think we have been wasting time. We don't expect them to win the Cup tomorrow but the progress is too slow. We haven't even started to learn about "losing in the playoffs" like the Oilers, AVs, Leafs, etc did. Thomas Chabot will turn 27 y/o next season, Taylor Hall made the playoffs for the first time at 26 y/o... Let that sink in.

I just disagree that it has been too slow and honestly, I'm glad we will only have one year languishing in no man's land around the 17-22 spot in the final standings. We didnt bother building a solid squad until the core was ready and I don't see the criticism in that strategy considering that we now find ourself with some of the best young talent in the league. Heck, our best player is 21 and JUST had his breakout season and you could say the same for our captain.

Had we built a better team sooner we only would have been knocking on the door for longer, and foregoing draft capital in the process. Nobody but Chabot would have been ready and if the fan criticism is to be listened to, Chabot isn't even a top 5 player on this team. I believe you've brought up wasting his best years a lot but how on earth were we supposed to build around that one guy? On the flip side there are 5 -7 excellent young players that we are building around now, as they are entering their prime, together. How do you clamour about wasting Chabot's years when we are about to optimize the years of so many others? You can't really have it both ways I'm afraid.

A scorched earth rebuild that stockpiles enough talent to produce a potential dynasty takes either a generational player, or years to build. We didn't have the luxury of drafting a generational player so patience was the only option. I could care less about the Stepan's and Gudbransons along the way. Those are such minor things compared the core we have assembled, the contracts we have and the character that has been blueprinted.

I guess my question would be this. If this team wins a Stanley Cup, will it then all have been worth it? If the answer is YES than I would say everyone who is so viciously negative about PD and the rebuild and all that is being foolishly pessimistic before letting the process play out and that to me is pretty ignorant.

I just don't get it. With a few basic tweaks (goaltending + depth) we ALL agree that this team looks like it has the makings of cup contender. Isn't that something we should be celebrating?

 

[DueDiligence]

Pretty confident in that personally. Detroit looks 2 years away from making any real noise, Buffalo has some great young players, but so do we and I think we take the next step with them and boot teams like Pittsburgh and/or the Islanders or Florida or whomever right out of a spot.

Buffalo has more cap room to manoeuvre with and a bunch more draft choices.

 

[DueDiligence]

Uhhh….. they could have made the playoffs this year with a little luck on the injury front.

Cup contenders obviously.

I guess you have simultaneous overly high expectations on how we should have done this season, and also low expectations of what this core is capable of going forward.

No just realistic. To be a serious contender this team needs about 20 more points. With the current core, no blue chip prospects and a lack of cap space I can't see how they are getting there. Playoff team but out early.

 

[BondraTime]

Sens have no 1st round pick (10th, 7th, ~15th) for a 3 year period, that hurts moving forward at a cap team.

 

[PlayersLtd]

So what are your expectations for this team going forward? That the core the Sens have is going to improve to the point they are a Cup contender? Or is making the playoffs again the ultimate goal?

If I'm understanding correctly, this to me hits at the very nature of what I consider to be shortsighted criticism. Of course the core is going to get better and yes, likely improve to the point of being a cup contender. I'd place a wager on the young group we have, absolutely.

Maybe that's where people differ and it would be great to put an end to the back and forth. Some think this core doesn't have what it takes to succeed and are bearish about our future, others do and are thus bullish.

Put me firmly in the camp who thinks that we are just scratching the surface with the individual talents we're witnessing and that they have what it takes as a team to carry us through the playoffs in the future. Some tweaks needed for sure, like every team every year, but absolutely capable.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Buffalo has more cap room to manoeuvre with and a bunch more draft choices.

I still think we can compete with them and more.

At this point, we need depth in drafting, no need for superstars anymore unless it's a goalie. We're set everywhere (but goalie).