Matthews,Marner,Woll vs Stutzle,Tkachuk,Ullmark

[Golden_Jet]

Matthews > Stutzle
Ullmark > Woll
I’d prefer Tkachuk over Marner, but can see some preferring Marner.

 

[Xspyrit]

Problem here is many will compare Matthews vs Stutzle 2023-24 but completely ignore the 2022-23 season

Matthews had an injury in 2022-23? Well, Stutzle played injured all the 2023-24 season after game #4. He was also 21 y/o until January 15th. It would also be interesting to compare both players at the same age...

This is not to say that Stutzle will be better than Matthews but the gap will most likely not be the one that was last season...

But anyway, what I am saying is way too deep for 2024 I guess.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Matthews > Stutzle
Marner > Tkachuk
Woll ? Ullmark

Thats's just ridiculous.

 

[Three On Zero]

Thats's just ridiculous.

Ullmark is the better goalie by far, I just want to see him play in Ottawa before saying anything about the trio.

 

[yzerman]

Problem here is many will compare Matthews vs Stutzle 2023-24 but completely ignore the 2022-23 season

Matthews had an injury? Well, Stutzle played injured all season after game #4. He was also 21 y/o until January 15th. It would also be interesting to compare both players at the same age...

This is not to say that Stutzle will be better than Matthews but the gap will most likely not be the one that was last season...

But anyway, what I am saying is way too deep for 2024 I guess.

Very good point and for me the gap between Matthews and Stutzle is smaller then the gap between Ullmark and Woll and i se Marner and Tkachuk as a wash

 

[heretik27]

Very good point and for me the gap between Matthews and Stutzle is smaller then the gap between Ullmark and Woll and i se Marner and Tkachuk as a wash

I disagree, last season Matthews nearly put up as many goals as Stutzle had points. The gap between Ullmark (40 GP) and Woll (25 GP) is .008 SV% and Ullmark may not get the same support in front of him in Ottawa. Neither goalie had the reigns as the bonafide starter and their performance could flop with an increased work load so goaltending is "voodoo" remains the standard in this poll for me.

 

[bert]

I disagree, last season Matthews nearly put up as many goals as Stutzle had points. The gap between Ullmark (40 GP) and Woll (25 GP) is .008 SV% and Ullmark may not get the same support in front of him in Ottawa. Neither goalie had the reigns as the bonafide starter and their performance could flop with an increased work load so goaltending is "voodoo" remains the standard in this poll for me.

And the year before Stutzle had 39 and 90 when he was 20. He was hurt last year still put up 70. Woll has never played more than 25 nhl games in a season and has 36 in his career and you are talking about Ullmark and the extra work load..... Matthews is clearly in a tier by himself in this comparison thats why he is winning but theres more to it when you are looking at the other players.

 

[heretik27]

And the year before Stutzle had 39 and 90 when he was 20. He was hurt last year still put up 70. Woll has never played more than 25 nhl games in a season and has 36 in his career. Matthews is clearly in a tier by himself in this comparison thats why he is winning but theres more to it when you are looking at the other players.

Yes, I read that, but that seasons scoring had many peak years for young talents. Stutzle had 90 points which was only good for 19th. The same season, Jason Robertson for example had 109 pts with 46 goals before dropping to 80 points on a cup contender last season.

 

[bert]

Yes, I read that, but that seasons scoring had many peak years for young talents. Stutzle had 90 points which was only good for 19th. The same season, Jason Robertson for example had 109 pts with 46 goals before dropping to 80 points on a cup contender last season.

So Stutzle is the first player to ever peak at 20. Thats the gamble you're going with? While he is on his ELC? Also you are worried about Ullmarks increased work load when Woll has never played more than 25 games.

 

[heretik27]

So Stutzle is the first player to ever peak at 20. Thats the gamble you're going with? While he is on his ELC? Also you are worried about Ullmarks increased work load when Woll has never played more than 25 games.

Who said anything about peak? I said I disagreed with the gap between him and Matthews being less than the gap between the goalies based on current performance and circumstances going forward.

But you can look at many of the young talents in the top 20 in that 2022-23' season to see regression in point totals there last year. The majority of players that met the same production level or exceeded it in the following season were players in their prime years, while guys like Karlsson and RNH fell off.

I'm simply just saying I think scoring was fairly elevated for that year, and extrapolating a high scoring season as evidence for future growth may not be realistic if we're projecting anything.

 

[Dog]

I think Woll needs to be healthy and prove himself. Ullmark I think already proven himself in Boston but not sure how he will respond in Ottawa.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Toronto and it is genuinely not even close.

Matthews is WORLDS better than Stutzle.

Marner is better than Tkachuk.

And Ullmark has the edge on Woll for now.

But the gap between Ullmark and Woll can't even come close to closing the gap between the other 4.

The Leafs dou are so vastly superior that the gap between Ullmark and Woll barely matters.

 

[bert]

Who said anything about peak? I said I disagreed with the gap between him and Matthews being less than the gap between the goalies based on current performance and circumstances going forward.

But you can look at many of the young talents in the top 20 in that 2022-23' season to see regression in point totals there last year. The majority of players that met the same production level or exceeded it in the following season were players in their prime years, while guys like Karlsson and RNH fell off.

I'm simply just saying I think scoring was fairly elevated for that year, and extrapolating a high scoring season as evidence for future growth may not be realistic if we're projecting anything.

None are his age, it wasnt a regression the next season he was injured. The average GPG was almost identical last year.

Karlsson and RNH are in their 30's.

Its not realistic for a player to improve on his 20 year old season... You are grasping.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Toronto and it is genuinely not even close.

Matthews is WORLDS better than Stutzle.

Marner is better than Tkachuk.

And Ullmark has the edge on Woll for now.

But the gap between Ullmark and Woll can't even come close to closing the gap between the other 4.

The Leafs dou are so vastly superior that the gap between Ullmark and Woll barely matters.

The gap between Woll and Ullmark is definitely greater than Tkachuk and Marner.
I’d take Tkachuk for his uniqueness as a player,

 

[heretik27]

None are his age, it wasnt a regression the next season he was injured. The average GPG was almost identical last year.

Karlsson and RNH are in their 30's.

Its not realistic for a player to improve on his 20 year old season... You are grasping.

The poll is about which trio is better, and that answer is definitively the Leafs if you don't see much value in debating the difference between two goalies who've never held the starter role for an entire season.

All of Robertson, M. Tkachuk, EP40, Jack Hughes, and Tage Thompson were under 25 players who saw their production levels decrease after 2022-23' with Stutzle. Stutzle was injured, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that Matthews + Marner are the superior duo excluding speculative goalie differences. I've only said it was a year with a noticeable peak for younger talents. You didn't see that last season with the forwards under 25 entering the top 30 of scoring.

 

[Xspyrit]

Matthews is WORLDS better than Stutzle.

What will be the narrative on this forum if the 2022-23 situation happens again?

Matthews had 40 goals and 85 points. Stutzle had 39 goals and 90 points.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What will be the narrative on this forum if the 2022-23 situation happens again?

Matthews had 40 goals and 85 points. Stutzle had 39 goals and 90 points.

Stutzle needed to play 4 more games to finish 5 points ahead and he STILL couldn't match the goal production of an injured Auston Matthews who had an injured wrist all year.

And this past it wasn't even close because Auston was healthy.

 

[SensontheRush]

Stutzle needed to play 4 more games to finish 5 points ahead and he STILL couldn't match the goal production of an injured Auston Matthews who had an injured wrist all year.

And this past it wasn't even close because Auston was healthy.

And Stu was not healthy last year.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Stutzle needed to play 4 more games to finish 5 points ahead and he STILL couldn't match the goal production of an injured Auston Matthews who had an injured wrist all year.

And this past it wasn't even close because Auston was healthy.

, so only injuries count if they are leaf injuries, got it.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

And Stu was not healthy last year.

So healthy Stu is worse than healthy Matthews and Injured Stu is worse than injured Matthews.

Healthy Stu is maybe marginally better offensively than injured Matthews but he also still finished in the top 15 in Selke voting during his down season (Stutzle 0 votes, his teammate had Giroux one 5th place vote).

 

[Fear]

Is this a serious poll, come on man. Thankfully september 21st is coming so we can stop taking about the sens until next summer

 

[Xspyrit]

Stutzle needed to play 4 more games to finish 5 points ahead and he STILL couldn't match the goal production of an injured Auston Matthews who had an injured wrist all year.

And this past it wasn't even close because Auston was healthy.

Stutzle was also 21 years old. At that age, Matthews had 73 pts while being healthy in the games he played (AFAIK)

Not all injuries are equal so kinda hard to use it as hard facts, even if you wish.

So healthy Stu is worse than healthy Matthews and Injured Stu is worse than injured Matthews.

Healthy Stu is maybe marginally better offensively than injured Matthews but he also still finished in the top 15 in Selke voting during his down season (Stutzle 0 votes, his teammate had Giroux one 5th place vote).

Stutzle was 20 and 21 years old in the seasons you are talking about.

Is this a serious poll, come on man. Thankfully september 21st is coming so we can stop taking about the sens until next summer

A Swedish fan who seems to like several teams made this poll. People are answering because we are in a hockey forum.

 

[Golden_Jet]

So healthy Stu is worse than healthy Matthews and Injured Stu is worse than injured Matthews.

Healthy Stu finished ahead of injured Matthews while he was still on his ELC.

 

[JKG33]

The goalies are a wash, Ullmark is a bit better but Woll is younger and cheaper.

So you've got two $12m(ish) players who play like $7m players in the playoffs vs two $8m players who play like ??? In the playoffs.

I'm taking the Ottawa duo. I highly doubt they regress to about 2/3 of their worth in the playoffs if they even regress at all

 

[Bouboumaster]

I like to shit on Nostrils as Much as the next Guy, but he's an whole tier better than the second best player in this thread, who happens to be Marner

So, with puke in my mouth, I voted for the Leafs