[Matthew Tkachuk] Leafs would be unbelievable if the team wasn't in Toronto

[Erik Alfredsson]

Knies contradicts MT:

"I want to be here," Knies said. "I want to play here. That's all that matters to me. I love playing in this city, I think it's a blast."

John Tavares 'very optimistic' about returning to Toronto Maple Leafs; Knies quiets offer sheet talk | TSN

John Tavares thinks a return to the Toronto Maple Leafs is very possible. The impending free-agent forward says he's "very optimistic" a deal can get done to remain with the team.

www.tsn.ca

Maybe he just has more cojones than Marner and Matthews.

Knies had 0 points and was a -5 in his last 4 games of the Florida series. Once he's being paid 9M the Leaf fans and media will turn on him too with numbers like that, regardless of how many cojones he possesses.

That's how it is for Toronto media and fans. The one thing they love more than a hero... is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Or the players were extremely talented as shown by their season stats and then they fell off the face of the earth come playoff time.

Maybe don't parade players as legends based entirely on their regular season stats? Everyone who's been following the NHL long enough knows legends are made in the playoffs.

 

[NVious]

So the players should have accepted less money than what was offered to them by the org? The players should have denied the statements from the media and fans that they were going to win multiple cups and Matthews was the best player in the world? The core should have voiced frustration and the organization selling tons of futures for sub pay players?

Look at the Toronto defense and goaltending. That's not even CLOSE to what you need to win the cup. Unless you are absolutely STACKED a forward, and they have zero depth beyond their top 6.

The players are a problem, but the fans and org are also a major issue.

They could've asked for less.

The players should want to win multiple cups, that should always be the goal. Matthews was literally voted as the best player in the world at one point by both players and media.

No the core should've performed in the playoffs.

I agree Shanahan was as bad as the core when it comes to roster decisions, the players still dropped off 33-50%, that's fact.

The players and organization are the problem (who greenlit the players), not the fans.

 

[NVious]

Maybe don't parade players as legends based entirely on their regular season stats? Everyone who's been following the NHL long enough knows legends are made in the playoffs.

Never happened, but I know you're dying to post that magazine whose job it is to sell copies (Leafs fans being the biggest fan base) with the Plan the Parade article and say "SEE EVERYONE DID IT" even though it was one magazine whose job it is to sell copies.

So go ahead post it.

There's no fanfare and pressure in Ottawa, why haven't you guys won?

 

[Bust]

There's no fanfare and pressure in Ottawa, why haven't you guys won?

Ill take this one Erik.

Cause the team sucks.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Never happened, but I know you're dying to post that magazine whose job it is to sell copies (Leafs fans being the biggest fan base) with the Plan the Parade article and say "SEE EVERYONE DID IT" even though it was one magazine whose job it is to sell copies.

So go ahead post it.

There's no fanfare and pressure in Ottawa, why haven't you guys won?

They've come way closer to winning multiples times in the past 20 years than the Leafs have.

So if Ottawa sucks and the Leafs fans/media are innocent angels, how come Toronto doesn't even sniff their jock strap when it comes to the playoffs over the past 20 years? Are the golden god Leaf players just choking in the playoffs every year now for 20 years?

 

[Bust]

Once he's being paid 9M the Leaf fans and media will turn on him too with numbers like that, regardless of how many cojones he possesses.

Wait a sec here... Whys he making 9M?

Is that leaf fans inking that contract? Or are you putting too high expectations on the kid? Or is that the media?

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Wait a sec here... Whys he making 9M?

Is that leaf fans inking that contract? Or are you putting too high expectations on the kid? Or is that the media?

It's the number I've heard a few Leaf fans throw out.

 

[IdleTraveller]

I think you missed the point, brother. Playing hockey with a broken sternum sounds extraordinarily painful and difficult. To do so, is a rather astonishing feat of willpower and physical toughness.

I am perplexed that a man who is capable of such physical toughness, is intimating that pressure from fans is a detriment to a professional team. Seriously, this guy is a cup champion, who therefore has the requisite mental toughness to win as well, but is saying that it's pressure from fans that make the difference to this team? That's just outrageously soft, and is quite a contradiction based on the other things we know about this man.

There's nothing wrong with being bothered or angry about fans. Crazy fans doing crazy things is a fact that professional athletes, in hockey or otherwise, have to deal with. Athletes are humans too. But stoicism in the face of that pressure is quite literally what they get paid for. If they cannot deliver under that pressure, that is a critical flaw in their abilities as a hockey player.

I suppose it makes sense if he's trolling the team, saying that they're the ones who can't hack the pressure. But Maurice explicitly spoke about how the team was not going to deserve the criticism they get, so I'm not inclined to be charitable to Panthers players/staff in my interpretation of their words.

Both Marchand and Tkachuk are most definitely NOT above trolling - we know this and love this about them as players. But in Tkachuk's case and particularly Maurice, I think they were actually sincere in their comments. Tkachuk is friends with both Matthews and Marner, as well as having former teammates on the Leafs, so I really do think he was honestly trying not to kick them while they're down.

However, they are both right and wrong. There is a toxic relationship between Leaf fans/media and the team - that's undeniable. And that did contribute to the team playing scared - playing not to lose rather than playing to win: even I could see that as a Cats fan in G5 and G7. But I agree with you that players can, and do, push past that pressure and win. I mean, we choked three games in the SCF last year and still managed to win G7. So the players do take some responsbility here, particularly when they are being paid what they are, and management certainly does for keeping the mix together for so long when it was clear it wasn't working.

But going back to the toxicity of the relationship - I actually agree with a lot of Leaf fans that I don't think it's about the losing: we love sports so losing is a pretty much a normal state of being. I think it's more about the way the Leafs franchise tries to "protect" their players after losses and by doing so, creates this adversarial relationship with the media and fans. And that's not good for either side.

 

[Bust]

Not this one. And none that I've talked to, and I do know a few.

Sounds like you;re just looking at the extreme outliers and generalizing the fanbase on those opinions.

Certainly not an honest approach at any sort of dialogue - but that's obviously not your intention here.

 

[Bust]

It's the number I've heard a few Leaf fans throw out.

Not this one. And none that I've talked to, and I do know a few.

Sounds like you;re just looking at the extreme outliers and generalizing the fanbase on those opinions.

Certainly not an honest approach at any sort of dialogue - but that's obviously not your intention here.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Not this one. And none that I've talked to, and I do know a few.

Sounds like you;re just looking at the extreme outliers and generalizing the fanbase on those opinions.

Certainly not an honest approach at any sort of dialogue - but that's obviously not your intention here.

Ok then replace 9m with whatever you think he'll get.

 

[NVious]

They've come way closer to winning multiples times in the past 20 years than the Leafs have.

So if Ottawa sucks and the Leafs fans/media are innocent angels, how come Toronto doesn't even sniff their jock strap when it comes to the playoffs over the past 20 years? Are the golden god Leaf players just choking in the playoffs every year now for 20 years?

Hang the "Closer than Toronto to Winning the Cup" banner, think 31 other teams have that one.

I never said tht but I get you need to strawman me to make your argument seem stronger, the point was that if rabid fans+rabid media is decreasing the play of the players, why isn't the opposite taking place of lax fans/media increasing the play of the players?

Because it obviously doesnn't work that way which is why the Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, Red Sox kill it despite being way crazier than Toronto.

You can keep crying on here about the Leafs, as I said I'd be mad too going 0-5 vs the Leafs, I donno if I'd dedicate so much time to them like you, but have fun with that.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Well, its not like Paul Maurice, Matthew Tkachunk and the Panthers organization are known to be classy ( see the tweet from one of the owners that got him suspended)

Steve Dangle made a great point about Tkachuks hypocrisy, talking about players not wanting the spotlight while running his mouth to any microphone or magazine that he comes across.

You lost everyone at Steve Dangle made a great point

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Hang the "Closer than Toronto to Winning the Cup" banner, think 31 other teams have that one.

I never said tht but I get you need to strawman me to make your argument seem stronger, the point was that if rabid fans+rabid media is decreasing the play of the players, why isn't the opposite taking place of lax fans/media increasing the play of the players?

Because it obviously doesnn't work that way which is why the Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, Red Sox kill it despite being way crazier than Toronto.

You can keep crying on here about the Leafs, as I said I'd be mad too going 0-5 vs the Leafs, I donno if I'd dedicate so much time to them like you, but have fun with that.

Well the last few cup Winners have included Florida, Vegas, and Tampa, so maybe it does increase the play.

 

[NVious]

Knies had 0 points and was a -5 in his last 4 games of the Florida series. Once he's being paid 9M the Leaf fans and media will turn on him too with numbers like that, regardless of how many cojones he possesses.

That's how it is for Toronto media and fans. The one thing they love more than a hero... is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you.

Yeah Mitch, Auston and JT did so much for us.

On one hand you call us epic chokers for the last 20 years.

On the other hand we're turning on players/heroes for no reason.

Which is it???

LMFAO

Blinded with rage lil br5-0

 

[Oilslick941611]

You lost everyone at Steve Dangle made a great point

Maybe lost the idiots, but that’s okay

I’m sorry it’s tough for you to evaluate sources and separate good from bad thoughts from a source. He is absolutely right though. Tkachuk who is raving about the quiet life in the life and the lack of pressure is running around to any microphone or magazine that will take his quotes. This is what Tkachuk is, a hypocrite. He is talking a huge game for someone who has been invisible all playoffs and has had no impact on the ice. He’s been an idiot since his turtle days in Calgary, he hasn’t changed, ran his mouth during the 4 nations tournament, still running it now.

 

[Bust]

You lost everyone at Steve Dangle made a great point

Why is that?

Because its not Leaf hate centred media?

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Yeah Mitch, Auston and JT did so much for us.

On one hand you call us epic chokers for the last 20 years.

On the other hand we're turning on players/heroes for no reason.

Which is it???

LMFAO

Blinded with rage lil br5-0

Toronto fans once treated all those guys as heroes. You guys were thankful for giving you 60 goal seasons and playoff births.

The media and fans should have no accountability because Matthews and Marner are simply punks for not showing up and not having enough cajones, but local hero Matthew Knies who has one of the highest cajones count in the league apparently also pulled a disappearing act in the last 4 games of the playoffs. Which is it?

 

[Esq]

I think GTA needs another team to spread out the hate. Then things will get better, I'm sure.

 

[Bust]

I think GTA needs another team to spread out the hate. Then things will get better, I'm sure.

We already have Toronto East, we don't need more dead weight in the province.

 

[Theodore450]

Panthers got an elite troll game. Theres a reason huberdeau was trade for you chucky.

Perimeter players with low drive will never get you anywhere

Case and point Mitch marner

 

[NVious]

Toronto fans once treated all those guys as heroes. You guys were thankful for giving you 60 goal seasons and playoff births.

The media and fans should have no accountability because Matthews and Marner are simply punks for not showing up and not having enough cajones, but local hero Matthew Knies who has one of the highest cajones count in the league apparently also pulled a disappearing act in the last 4 games of the playoffs. Which is it?

Yeah, but we expected more from them, not a 33-50% drop and losses every year, should we have expected less? Should we be ok with top 10 guys dropping that amount once the playoffs start?

Knies is young, he hits, he can fight, if he demands every last dollar and doesn't perform in the playoffs, fans won't be thrilled (like any other market).

Turning on guys would imply for no reason we abandon great players or think one bad showing should be the end of everything. It's been nearly a decade of this core, how much longer do we need to simp for guys that drop 33-50% every year and as you said are epic chokers?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Steve Dangle made a great point about Tkachuks hypocrisy, talking about players not wanting the spotlight while running his mouth to any microphone or magazine that he comes across.

That definitely sounds like Dangle not Tkachuk.
Lol at anyone listening to Dangle, it’s nails on a chalkboard.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Yeah, but we expected more from them, not a 33-50% drop and losses every year, should we have expected less? Should we be ok with top 10 guys dropping that amount once the playoffs start?

Knies is young, he hits, he can fight, if he demands every last dollar and doesn't perform in the playoffs, fans won't be thrilled (like any other market).

Turning on guys would imply for no reason we abandon great players or think one bad showing should be the end of everything. It's been nearly a decade of this core, how much longer do we need to simp for guys that drop 33-50% every year and as you said are epic chokers?

Yes you should've expected less from them. You're saying these guys drop their play by 50% every year but then saying the media and fans didn't overrate them. I'm just confused.

I don't blame fans for turning on these guys, it's pretty justified. But you would think they would learn a lesson to not overrate players before they really accomplish meaningful things.