Value of: Matt Murray (with retention or for cap dump)

[dumbdick]

No secret Matt Murray hasn't lived up to expectations in Ottawa and the sens are probably ready to move on.

He has negative value given his contract.

He's signed two more seasons after this one, during which he's owed $15M in salary with a $6.25M cap hit (and has a 10-team NTC).

I think the sens would consider deals involving retention, maybe outgoing picks,
or swaps for another cap dump (preferably a dman).

Any proposals on that?

Click to read more...

 

[Nylanderthal]

Uncle Eugene isn’t retaining anything on that deal.

 

[McSuper]

Barrie and Koskinen for him with 1.25 retained

 

[Lemieuxfan]

Murray @60% retention for Zucker from pens?

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Barrie and Koskinen for him with 1.25 retained

actually an interesting proposal

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Just for conversation's sake, Vlasic and Hill for Murray and White?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Just for conversation's sake, Vlasic and Hill for Murray and White?

No thanks. White is a very easy buyout (avg of 650k over 6yrs) and Vlasic would actually handicap us from retaining our key young players, as opposed to Murray who will just keep us signing Michael Del Zotto's instead of David Savard's and Tucker Poolman's. Hill barely moves the needle.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No thanks. White is a very easy buyout (avg of 650k over 6yrs) and Vlasic would actually handicap us from retaining our key young players, as opposed to Murray who will just keep us signing Michael Del Zotto's instead of David Savard's and Tucker Poolman's. Hill barely moves the needle.

But you save that, save about a mil off the cap, and drop two mil from Hill after next season. Would swapping White for Zaitsev make it any more appealing?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Murray @60% retention for Zucker from pens?

From Pens fan perspective, absolutely not.

1. He can’t be retained more than 50% per NHL rules. Even at 50%. That is way too much for a backup.

2. We have had Matt and I don’t want him screwing up Jarry. He wants to be a starter and will complain that he isn’t when he gets here.

3. Zucker only has one more year.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Murray @60% retention for Zucker from pens?

Who's the 3rd team getting involved and has Zucker fallen out of favour?

 

[TheNewEra]

Barrie and Koskinen for him with 1.25 retained

i would do this if i actually trusted management to get rid of zaistev

next season
Chabot-Zub
Sanderson-Barrie/JBD
Holden/Bran-JBD/Barrie

is a lot better then what ottawa is running now

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

But you save that, save about a mil off the cap, and drop two mil from Hill after next season. Would swapping White for Zaitsev make it any more appealing?

Where is the cap/salary saving? We take on more cap every single year for the next 5 years if we make this trade.

No trade: Buy-out White. Murray + buyout = 7m for 2yrs, 800k for 3 years, 650k cap credit for 1yr

Trade: 9.175m for 1yr, 7m for 3 yrs

Ottawa has no need to clear cap anyways. Ottawa will only need to make serious salary decisions (not even cap decisions) after Murray's contract expires. Why would we want a 37yr old 6D making 7m for 2yrs beyond that?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Where is the cap/salary saving? We take on more cap every single year for the next 5 years if we make this trade.

No trade: Buy-out White. Murray + buyout = 7m for 2yrs, 800k for 3 years, 650k cap credit for 1yr

Trade: 9.175m for 1yr, 7m for 3 yrs

Ottawa has no need to clear cap anyways. Ottawa will only need to make serious salary decisions (not even cap decisions) after Murray's contract expires. Why would we want a 37yr old 6D making 7m for 2yrs beyond that?

If you can make cap saving trades without a buyout, it's to the team's benefit especially when money is important to the owner. If the Sharks and Sens make this deal after they pay Vlasic's bonus, the Sens would save significant amounts of salary next season. I wouldn't bank on Ottawa buying White out. Seems a waste to spend 5.25 mil in a buyout on someone you can trade.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

If you can make cap saving trades without a buyout, it's to the team's benefit especially when money is important to the owner. If the Sharks and Sens make this deal after they pay Vlasic's bonus, the Sens would save significant amounts of salary next season. I wouldn't bank on Ottawa buying White out. Seems a waste to spend 5.25 mil in a buyout on someone you can trade.

If the Sens can trade White without taking any real money back, they will do so. If not, buying him out makes a ton of sense - cap-wise & financially.

Ottawa does not need to save money next year. We have 30+mil to sign Norris, Formenton, Brannstrom and 7 or 8 depth players. They need to save money in 3, 4, 5 years. There is no trade to be made involving Vlasic.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Murray is done. I wouldn’t want him for free. Even retained to 5 million is brutal

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Murray is done. I wouldn’t want him for free. Even retained to 5 million is brutal

Might not be with Ottawa, might not be on his current contract, but I think Murr will turn it around. Obviously even at 5m he's far from worth it given his play these last 4yrs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If the Sens can trade White without taking any real money back, they will do so. If not, buying him out makes a ton of sense - cap-wise & financially.

Ottawa does not need to save money next year. We have 30+mil to sign Norris, Formenton, Brannstrom and 7 or 8 depth players. They need to save money in 3, 4, 5 years. There is no trade to be made involving Vlasic.

It makes no sense to spend 5 mil to get rid of a guy. That premise is flawed.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

It makes no sense to spend 5 mil to get rid of a guy. That premise is flawed.

It makes sense to spend 5mil to get rid of a guy if the payment is spread out over 6 years and the only other options are to pay him 20mil or to take on shitty, high salaried players.

What makes NO sense is adding a terrible mid-30s making 7mil until he's mid-40s while unloading players who make less and will be off our books sooner (and can probably contribute more value, while we're at it).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It makes sense to spend 5mil to get rid of a guy if the payment is spread out over 6 years and the only other options are to pay him 20mil or to take on shitty, high salaried players.

What makes NO sense is adding a terrible mid-30s making 7mil until he's mid-40s while unloading players who make less and will be off our books sooner (and can probably contribute more value, while we're at it).

Not when you get better use out of what you'd get for him. Not necessarily the trade I proposed but any other similarly priced player would still be better than wasting five mil to get rid of him when the team is money conscious.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I’d be interested for the Sabres. What kinda pick we talkin? Take Subban or Tokarski going the other way

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Barrie and Koskinen for him with 1.25 retained

thats a hard no from me. Murray is beyond cooked. Ottawa would need to add something pretty significant. Goaltending isn’t a position you can have a guy that’s damn near unplayable taking up 5 mil of cap space.

the idea of a Smith-Murray tandem next year gives me the shakes

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Not when you get better use out of what you'd get for him. Not necessarily the trade I proposed but any other similarly priced player would still be better than wasting five mil to get rid of him when the team is money conscious.

As I said, if we could get value for him we will trade him. If not, buyout is the best option. For further information: The Sunk Cost Fallacy - The Decision Lab

 

[Pinkfloyd]

As I said, if we could get value for him we will trade him. If not, buyout is the best option. For further information: The Sunk Cost Fallacy - The Decision Lab

It's not a very strong response going with sunk cost on this one.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

It's not a very strong response going with sunk cost on this one.

You either don't understand my point (White will likely be bought out if he cannot be traded for value AKA White will likely be bought out) or you don't understand sunk cost (paying 5m up front is worth neutralizing the possibility of pouring 20mil into White to be a 3rd/4th liner for us).

Adding a similarly-priced player who cannot be bought out at 1/3rd of their deal is NOT a better option unless that player is significantly better than White.

If this doesn't settle things, I really have no clue what your point is.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You either don't understand my point (White will likely be bought out if he cannot be traded for value AKA White will likely be bought out) or you don't understand sunk cost (paying 5m up front is worth neutralizing the possibility of pouring 20mil into White to be a 3rd/4th liner for us).

Adding a similarly-priced player who cannot be bought out at 1/3rd of their deal is NOT a better option unless that player is significantly better than White.

If this doesn't settle things, I really have no clue what your point is.

And I think what you view as value and what the team would define as value is markedly different if you somehow think they'd buy him out over getting even a similar cap player to White. I doubt the team thinks he's sunk cost.