Player Discussion Matt Murray (G) - 4 years, $6.25M AAV

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Why are you trying to be cute and none offensive? That's the big problem with the Ottawa fanbase. Never demanding accountability. His glove is trash and that problem will never be fixed.
It is 100% health issue. Shoulder, tennis elbow (lateral epicondylitis ) Some kind of tendons or wrist problems. Murray is hiding and trying to prolong his paychecks. Because the injury could be a career ending and it means what it means. He will not play in NHL and he shouldn't. He does everything humanely possible to avoid starts. Everyone can see this. Dorion oh my Dorion)))

I think you’re looking for something that isn’t there. My statement means he is probably unmovable due to the bad contract and has two years here to figure it out. Nothing more.

I think I’ve made my displeasure with the org pretty apparent over the last couple of years.

 

[Beech]

Dorion apologized for “the greatest day” comment, and admitted that Stepan didn’t work out. Do those count?

He also admitted that Dadonov didn’t work…

Lou L. is mean and nasty. Do you know what he does best? He keeps his mouth shut. Does his work quietly and succeeds.

NJ Devils, NY Islanders..teams that are only marginally better than Ottawa financially. All I want from Pierre...become Lou. Shut up, don't say anything, succeed.

hire good coaches/staff, draft well, sign smart free agents, make good trades, be in the playoffs the bulk of your tenure (What is Lou L. at? 9 out of every 10 years or so. So about 25 trips and a solid 50 or so series wins). Lou never apologizes, because his mistakes are measured by the ones. In Ottawa, the mistakes seem to be measured by the dozen.

 

[ksens]

All I want from Pierre...become Lou. Shut up, don't say anything, succeed.

Or as they say:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

Instead Dorion blamed 20/21 Murray on the goalie coach. I await this years bumbling excuses with baited breath.

 

[robsenz]

"Show me a good goalie and I'll show you a good team" - Jeff Marek

I'm very excited about the future of our team, I'd even go so far as to say we could make the playoffs if it wasn't for the fact that's for the last 2 years we've been running without a starting goalie.

Couldn't we take on some salary and trade Murray to a team that wants to tank?

Our rebuild is over.

He is perhaps the worst goalie in franchise history.

I miss Craig Anderson.

No ,Barrasso will always hold that title. Also how do you sink when you've already sunk?

 

[TheDebater]

No ,Barrasso will always hold that title. Also how do you sink when you've already sunk?

Tom Barrasso played a total of one playoff series for Ottawa, how exactly does he told the title of worst goalie in franchise history?

 

[MarkStone]

The best ability may not exactly be availability but it’s at least a crucial starting point. Murray has shown flashes of steadiness but he simply is never able to get on a roll before an injury and of course has the odd bad game that every goalie will suffer added in. It’s led to a very frustrating tenure between goalie and team.

I want him to do well and be our rebuild’s Freddie Andersen who despite his game 7 history gave the Leafs young core a reliable goalie every night to help their growth into a playoff team. It may not be in the cards for Murray however.

 

[DanyHeatley]

"Show me a good goalie and I'll show you a good team" - Jeff Marek

I'm very excited about the future of our team, I'd even go so far as to say we could make the playoffs if it wasn't for the fact that's for the last 2 years we've been running without a starting goalie.

Couldn't we take on some salary and trade Murray to a team that wants to tank?

Our rebuild is over.

He is perhaps the worst goalie in franchise history.

I miss Craig Anderson.

Our rebuild is most definitely not over. What are you talking about

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Not sure if Rals meant "worst" as in talent, but I would take it as far to say that the overall Matt Murray goalie stint in Ottawa is right up there with the worst.

Leclaire was one, Gerber another...Hasek to an extent.

All 3 (4 now) were "bargain bin" big name goalies the franchise tried to bring in to solidify the back end only to result in a massive fail everytime.

I disliked the Murray trade the moment it was announced because the way he won his cups in Pittsburgh to me was not typical of a star goalie; he was an average goalie in a superstar costume.

I don't think this is accurate. Murray in 2016 gave the team a lot of stability in net, which they hadn't had with Marc-Andre Fleury at that point in his career. It's true that that team was a buzzsaw and didn't really need excellent goaltending to win, but he still provided it. It wasn't like Binnington in 2019 or Fleury in 2009 where the team was outscoring an average goaltending performance. In 2017 Murray only played half the games but was absurdly dominant even though he was probably playing injured. I don't think an average goalie could post back-to-back shutouts to clinch the Cup behind a defense corps that was led by Ron Hainsey, injured Justin Schultz, and Brian Dumoulin.

 

[robsenz]

Tom Barrasso played a total of one playoff series for Ottawa, how exactly does he told the title of worst goalie in franchise history?

oh whoops, yeah it's Matt Murray, I forgot personal opinion doesn't matter I need to join the mob on this one. Murray has been completely underwhelming here, but theres been a variety of factors as to why that's been going on so far.

 

[TheDebater]

oh whoops, yeah it's Matt Murray, I forgot personal opinion doesn't matter I need to join the mob on this one. Murray has been completely underwhelming here, but theres been a variety of factors as to why that's been going on so far.

That is a little extreme, I only asked a question regarding your choice.

 

[Xspyrit]

All this noise is funny considering this :

NHL Stats

NHL goalies SV% since Filip Gustavsson has started playing in the NHL (March 17th) min. 10 GP

1- Juuse Saros 0.937 SV%
Semyon Varlamov 0.933 SV%
Jeremy Swayman 0.933 SV%
Ilya Sorokin 0.928 SV%
5- Alex Nedeljkovic 0.927 SV%
Thomas Greiss 0.927 SV%
Jack Campbell 0.926 SV%
Chris Driedger 0.925 SV%
Tuukka Rask 0.925 SV%
10- Filip Gustavsson 0.924 SV%
Elvis Merzlikins 0.924 SV%
James Reimer 0.924 SV%
13- Matt Murray 0.924 SV%
...
19- Robin Lehner 0.920 SV%

Gustavsson has been excellent so far in the NHL but the narrative about Murray is ridiculous. He has won 2 Cups already and played under pressure before. Gustavsson is still quite young for a goalie and has very little experience. They can share the load, Murray acts as a stop gap, reducing the pressure for the young goalie. I don't want Anton Forsberg the one to be doing that, he's not very good. You need to protect your "goalie of the future" (even if I think it's going to be Sogaard ultimately). Like I said a while ago, a Murray/Gustavsson duo would be great (and the numbers above confirm, and that is despite an awful defense and an injury/covid ravage)

Also, people need to realize that if Gustavsson had the displeasure of being the Sens starting goalie in the first 2 months of 2020-21, he would be considered a bust at the moment (a bit like Hogberg). Blame Melnyk, Dorion and DJ Smith, not Murray (or any of the players). They are the ones who allow this infamity

 

[bicboi64]

Is Forsberg really better than Murray? Seems to me he's been even more inconsistent.

My bad, i think i meant to say that they're both about the same with Forsberg not costing $6 million and that money being used to address our poor defense

 

[bashbros32]

Has anyone mentioned the Ian Mendes athletic article where he talks about goaltending? Am I allowed to post an image of a snippet from it here?

 

[armani]

Has anyone mentioned the Ian Mendes athletic article where he talks about goaltending? Am I allowed to post an image of a snippet from it here?

Yes you have my permission.

 

[HSF]

ian proving that Murray is better stats wise

I think Gus has come down to earth a bit and we should run with both and see what happens

 

[OD99]

ian proving that Murray is better stats wise

I think Gus has come down to earth a bit and we should run with both and see what happens

Gus shouldn't have to be better considered his age and experience but he is showing flashes of brilliance which has me excited to see how he continues to mature in to the role of NHL starting goaltender.

It is a rough road and not many keep progressing and settle in a long term, steady role but he is showing the traits and perhaps this odd season ends up being good for him to get reps without much outside pressure.

Ideally Murray finds his form/health and gets the starting role full time for the remainder of the season and then next we can have MM started and Gus as true back-up then see what happens.

 

[bashbros32]

Ian Mendes @ the Athletic

 

[Xspyrit]

Ian Mendes stealing my arguments

 

[Micklebot]

View attachment 480702

Ian Mendes @ the Athletic

This is part of the problem with small samples. Even 10 games isn't a particularly great sample size. Go 15 games with Murray and he's back to a sub 900 sv%. The moral is don't judge a guy on 5 games, good or bad. Give Murray more time and we'll see where his game is at.

The thing with Murray is we were told the start of his season last year was rebuilding his fundamentals after making some big changes, personally i think you can see a big difference between now and the start of last year. That's not to say there aren't still weaknesses, his glove hand still seems to give him trouble, but I think he can be a good first save goalie, we just need the D to clear the rebounds.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Maybe I've been too hard on Murray, but as noted by some, it is a small sample size and ultimately putting up wins and staying in the lineup needs to be a thing for it to work out either way. Tough to do behind this team, but hopefully he can do it.

 

[PlayOn]

View attachment 480702

Ian Mendes @ the Athletic

It’s actually not surprising though - Murray was good at the end of last season but so was the team. We won almost all our games.

I’d be more interested in seeing where Gus and Murray both are 10 games into this season, where the team in front of them has largely been a mess. Murray has barely played so hard to evaluate him yet.

 

[swiftwin]

This is part of the problem with small samples. Even 10 games isn't a particularly great sample size. Go 15 games with Murray and he's back to a sub 900 sv%. The moral is don't judge a guy on 5 games, good or bad. Give Murray more time and we'll see where his game is at.

The thing with Murray is we were told the start of his season last year was rebuilding his fundamentals after making some big changes, personally i think you can see a big difference between now and the start of last year. That's not to say there aren't still weaknesses, his glove hand still seems to give him trouble, but I think he can be a good first save goalie, we just need the D to clear the rebounds.

The small sample size argument goes both ways. He's only played 32 games with the Sens. The first 16 games were not good (.883), and the last 16 were much better (.904). And if you narrow it down to his last 10 games, he's even better (.924).

People are still trying to judge him on his first 16 games, when the whole team stunk, we had no pre-season, he was on a new team, and he was rebuilding his technique. The stats show that he's been steadily trending in the right direction since then.

 

[HSF]

I personally think we focus too much on goaltending right now. The defense and center ice are flawed which are two very important positions for team defense.

Even Gus will have bad numbers if we continue to play like we are

 

[ksens]

This is part of the problem with small samples. Even 10 games isn't a particularly great sample size. Go 15 games with Murray and he's back to a sub 900 sv%. The moral is don't judge a guy on 5 games, good or bad. Give Murray more time and we'll see where his game is at.

Yeah this is not great by Ian. I can cherry pick stats windows to justify an argument too, but the bottom line is that since Murray has been in Ottawa, and even his last two years in Pittsburgh, he has not provided NHL starting caliber goaltending. Over that sample size he should be backing up or platooning on a $1-2M short term deal not taking in $6M AAV on a long term deal. Unless there is some kind of dramatic turn-around in his play the signing is a disaster.

The thing with Murray is we were told the start of his season last year was rebuilding his fundamentals after making some big changes, personally i think you can see a big difference between now and the start of last year. That's not to say there aren't still weaknesses, his glove hand still seems to give him trouble, but I think he can be a good first save goalie, we just need the D to clear the rebounds.

The minor leagues and the beer leagues are full of goalies who can make a save but can't control the rebound. In the NHL goalies are paid not just to get in the way but make sure they can freeze the puck (trap in the body or glove, which Murray is absolutely abysmal at) or make sure the puck ends up in the corner or the mesh (which he is not much better at). Ottawa's D may not be NHL caliber but Murray has multiple gaping flaws with his game and at his age and experience is not going to be "rebuilding his fundamentals".

 

[Xspyrit]

I personally think we focus too much on goaltending right now. The defense and center ice are flawed which are two very important positions for team defense.

Even Gus will have bad numbers if we continue to play like we are

Exactly. Last game against Pittsburgh has shown that Gustavsson is not invincible, particularly if the team in front of him plays like headless chickens (which is something that has happened a lot to Murray, particularly in January/February). I mean, Evan freaking Rodrigues scored 2 goals and 3 points in a few minutes.

As I have been saying for a while, goaltending is actually the only non-weakness on the team. Murray/Gustavsson could be a really solid duo if we could have a competent team defense in front of them

Yeah this is not great by Ian. I can cherry pick stats windows to justify an argument too, but the bottom line is that since Murray has been in Ottawa, and even his last two years in Pittsburgh, he has not provided NHL starting caliber goaltending. Over that sample size he should be backing up or platooning on a $1-2M short term deal not taking in $6M AAV on a long term deal. Unless there is some kind of dramatic turn-around in his play the signing is a disaster.

NHL Stats

In his second last year in Pittsburgh, Murray was 11th in SV% (which includes 3 back-ups that had less than 40 GP) and 11th in Wins with 29