Player Discussion: Matt Martin

[PWJunior]

If he wants to play, it should be with another organization. Too many bodies with limited roster spots. I think him, Clutter, and to a lesser degree CC have already begun to decline. That's a lot of wear and tear on these players, especially the style they play. I hope I am wrong and like every fan love what they bring to the game. Also, its tougher for the older banged up players to get back in shape again in a smaller window and play important games right away and then re-start again when the next season begins. Lou has his work cut out for him!!!

We can no longer afford paying 4th liners so much money. As their contracts expire or are close to expiring, we need to let them go and replace them with cheaper and younger players.

Ross can replace Martin next season. As much as it will pain people to say goodbye to Cizikas, we can't afford to pay a #4C so much money anymore. Zeeker is a pending UFA next season, replace him with Otto Koivula in 2021-22.

Clutterbuck has 2 more years after this one, maybe he can be moved in expansion when he only has 1 year left.

Martin ($2.5M) - Cizikas ($3.5M) - Clutter ($3.5M) is ridiculously expensive for a 4th line that is on the downswing. Ross ($1M) - Koivula (ELC $787K) - ELC player like Bardreau ($700K) or Wahlstrom ($925K) or even Dal Colle ($700K) saves us like $7M. That money is better spent elsewhere.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Agreed. A 4th line of Ross - Koivula - ??? would cost less than $3M a year vs. the $9.5M they're paying currently. Thats huge savings that can be used better.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

As much as it will pain people to say goodbye to Cizikas, we can't afford to pay a #4C so much money anymore.

Forget that, he's untouchable in my opinion. Right now I'd name him captain. And if I had to name two captains Boychuk would be the other. This team is already short on talent and ambition, if we were to get rid of Zeke and/or Boychuk we'd have one of the weakest character teams in the League. Getting rid of Lehner was a huge mistake for team morale and moving one or two of these guys would be a similar mistake. The message we'd be sending is getting rid of the heart guys to save a couple million while keeping the underachievers, aka most of the team. I can live without Leddy or Martin- Martin should be coach in the minors anyway, but Zeke, Boychuck, and not to mention Mayfield, need to be on the team.

Can you imagine this team without Boychuk and/or Zeke? Oh yeah, we just saw it.

 

[PWJunior]

Forget that, he's untouchable in my opinion. Right now I'd name him captain. And if I had to name two captains Boychuk would be the other. This team is already short on talent and ambition, if we were to get rid of Zeke and/or Boychuk we'd have one of the weakest character teams in the League. Getting rid of Lehner was a huge mistake for team morale and moving one or two of these guys would be a similar mistake. The message we'd be sending is getting rid of the heart guys to save a couple million while keeping the underachievers, aka most of the team. I can live without Leddy or Martin- Martin should be coach in the minors anyway, but Zeke, Boychuck, and not to mention Mayfield, need to be on the team.

Can you imagine this team without Boychuk and/or Zeke? Oh yeah, we just saw it.

I think this is really short sighted. I love Cizikas, but he's going to 30 next year and it'll take at least $3.35M to re-sign him unless he's willing to take a $1.5ish deal to stay. That would be stupid for him if he did that. He was great for us and I salute him, but he is going to decline. He gets banged up a lot, that's not going to change with the mileage he already has and his style of play.

Let me guess, you were wanted to re-sign Okposo, Moulson, or Streit?

Boychuk is probably unmovable this offseason because of his contract, but it's time to cut bait if possible. Spend that money elsewhere like paying Barzal, Pulock, or Toews... the present and future core.

You claim this team is short on talent. Well when you're paying a #4C $3.35M and a 36 year old 3rd pairing d-man $6M... you can't afford to add more talent.

 

[MJF]

If he wants to play, it should be with another organization. Too many bodies with limited roster spots. I think him, Clutter, and to a lesser degree CC have already begun to decline. That's a lot of wear and tear on these players, especially the style they play. I hope I am wrong and like every fan love what they bring to the game. Also, its tougher for the older banged up players to get back in shape again in a smaller window and play important games right away and then re-start again when the next season begins. Lou has his work cut out for him!!!

Biggest issue I have with Clutter is he can’t stay healthy and he has a history of head injuries (they say migraines-I say concussions). He is a declining asset and we would be best served by getting his contract off the books somehow.

 

[PWJunior]

Biggest issue I have with Clutter is he can’t stay healthy and he has a history of head injuries (they say migraines-I say concussions). He is a declining asset and we would be best served by getting his contract off the books somehow.

Lou needs to check his Rolodex and get one of his doctors to pull a Hossa on Clutter. That $3.5M cap hit would help a lot.

 

[Bill Herlyn]

Buying out Clutterbuck will save the Isles around $1.7 million in 20-21 and 21-22 and leave a dead cap hit of 800k for years 3 and 4. Probably worth doing unless Clutterbuck can be placed on LTIR for next season.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

I’m fine with removing Boychuk, Clutter and Martin off the team depending on how it is done. Cizikas though...He is the best 4th liner in the league and between that and his PK play and FOs he is deserving of his money easily. If you want to save money you get rid of those 3 guys. Not to mention we just gave him that deal and he has earned it. You want to rub his teammates the wrong way, that is a quick and easy way to do it. The other 3 I’m sure they can see the reasons but with Casey it would not be a liked move at all. You need to show loyalty if you want other guys to sign long term deals with confidence or else you get short deals or they ask for more or put a million asterisks on a deal like a Ladd Contract etc. Cizikas is well worth his money and his value to the team is undeniable, you move a guy like that and you will have an unhappy dressing room not to mention the team results will suffer immensely lol Our record with him out is atrocious and it is not a coincidence . He does not play 5 minutes a night like most 4th liners... He plays up to 15 minutes most nights. Why ? Because he is that good. Some need to re-evaluate imho and I don’t mean that with any disrespect. Being very shortsighted to try to save $ anyway they can. If some want to save $2M and put tanner fritz there or stunt Koivulas development burying him on the 4th line and think those end in good outcomes idk lol There are other options and it can be done in other ways. Let it play out

 

[PWJunior]

I’m fine with removing Boychuk, Clutter and Martin off the team depending on how it is done. Cizikas though...He is the best 4th liner in the league and between that and his PK play and FOs he is deserving of his money easily. If you want to save money you get rid of those 3 guys. Not to mention we just gave him that deal and he has earned it. You want to rub his teammates the wrong way, that is a quick and easy way to do it. The other 3 I’m sure they can see the reasons but with Casey it would not be a liked move at all. You need to show loyalty if you want other guys to sign long term deals with confidence or else you get short deals or they ask for more or put a million asterisks on a deal like a Ladd Contract etc. Cizikas is well worth his money and his value to the team is undeniable, you move a guy like that and you will have an unhappy dressing room not to mention the team results will suffer immensely lol Our record with him out is atrocious and it is not a coincidence . He does not play 5 minutes a night like most 4th liners... He plays up to 15 minutes most nights. Why ? Because he is that good. Some need to re-evaluate imho and I don’t mean that with any disrespect. Being very shortsighted to try to save $ anyway they can. If some want to save $2M and put tanner fritz there or stunt Koivulas development burying him on the 4th line and think those end in good outcomes idk lol There are other options and it can be done in other ways. Let it play out

Sorry, but this is the sort of sentimentality that gets teams in trouble. Hockey is also a business, the players know that and this intangibles stuff you're bringing up is more fluff than real substance.

I prefer letting Cizikas finish his contract and then walk, but if trading him ensures we can lock up Barzal or Pulock or even Toews, then you do it without hesitation.

The fact remains that Cizikas will be 30 next season and his best days are behind him. He is a pending UFA next season and re-signing him would be a bad move. Pageau is a better player and does all the things you mentioned. Ace on the PK, ace on FO's, younger, and signed long term. With Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau... Cizikas is no longer needed to play 15 minutes because those minutes aren't even available anymore.

Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau are the new backbone up the middle. Zeeker is now a luxury #4C. That's the reality.

 

[MJF]

Sorry, but this is the sort of sentimentality that gets teams in trouble. Hockey is also a business, the players know that and this intangibles stuff you're bringing up is more fluff than real substance.

I prefer letting Cizikas finish his contract and then walk, but if trading him ensures we can lock up Barzal or Pulock or even Toews, then you do it without hesitation.

The fact remains that Cizikas will be 30 next season and his best days are behind him. He is a pending UFA next season and re-signing him would be a bad move. Pageau is a better player and does all the things you mentioned. Ace on the PK, ace on FO's, younger, and signed long term. With Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau... Cizikas is no longer needed to play 15 minutes because those minutes aren't even available anymore.

Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau are the new backbone up the middle. Zeeker is now a luxury #4C. That's the reality.

I respect every ounce of what Casey Cizikas brings to the Islanders but we can't have a 4C who will command over $4M on the open market. That's what Zeker will be able to ask for if he scores 15 goals next season.

Acquiring JGP makes Casey unnecessary. They don't have the same tools in their toolboxes but Barzal, Nelson, JGP, Koivula would be a cost effective group of centers.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

Sorry, but this is the sort of sentimentality that gets teams in trouble. Hockey is also a business, the players know that and this intangibles stuff you're bringing up is more fluff than real substance.

I prefer letting Cizikas finish his contract and then walk, but if trading him ensures we can lock up Barzal or Pulock or even Toews, then you do it without hesitation.

The fact remains that Cizikas will be 30 next season and his best days are behind him. He is a pending UFA next season and re-signing him would be a bad move. Pageau is a better player and does all the things you mentioned. Ace on the PK, ace on FO's, younger, and signed long term. With Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau... Cizikas is no longer needed to play 15 minutes because those minutes aren't even available anymore.

Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau are the new backbone up the middle. Zeeker is now a luxury #4C. That's the reality.

Trust me I get what you are saying but he is also an integral part of this team and it’s success. He still will be playing that much, he is on the PK. The Strictly business side was me saying Koivula or a guy like fritz in his place makes us worse and Cizikas leaving in itself makes us a much worse hockey team. You can attempt to negotiate a new deal all year next year and if he refuses to do so or won’t take a cheaper extension then you look at moving him at the deadline. As far as next year goes if we can keep him on the roster for most of the season he should not be going anywhere. If we want to improve on this season next year, removing him and not making any other moves of significance almost guarantees a much worse forward group. We would be talking Getting rid of the whole 4th line at that point basically and likely brassard. That is a lot of turnover for one season. Either way it had nothing to do with sentiment. I see Cizikas as a bigger part to this teams success I guess. Only “sentimental” part I made was how it would effect guys in the dressing room, business or not guys can still get a bad taste in their mouth. That is with any one. Casey I just think guys will mind a bit more. We can agree to disagree on that. They know it is a business but they are also human beings which we tend to forget easily when we are just tossing names around on a message board.

 

[Lek]

I see Cizikas playing at a top level well in to his later years. Unless i get gold for him or he becomes just to expensive to keep, he is a keeper.

 

[IslesNorway]

For me, it all depends on the term. There is no way the Islanders should be paying Cizikas more than they do, but he is currently worth his $3.5 million. in free agency some team will offer 4 years @ $4 million or more, which is an awful deal

 

[MJF]

I see Cizikas playing at a top level well in to his later years. Unless i get gold for him or he becomes just to expensive to keep, he is a keeper.

That's the rub here. Many of us believe Cizikas will be too expensive to keep.

 

[Lek]

That's the rub here. Many of us believe Cizikas will be too expensive to keep.

Going to be a lot of tight budgets out there...really do not think he is going be offered as much as everyone is thinking.

 

[MJF]

Going to be a lot of tight budgets out there...really do not think he is going be offered as much as everyone is thinking.

Agreed. I just think even at what he’s getting paid now it would be tough to fit him under our cap.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Overpaying certain players is ok...overpaying 4th liners is not. Having a great 4th line is nice and all...but you know what's better? Having a great 1st or 2nd line.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Sorry, but this is the sort of sentimentality that gets teams in trouble. Hockey is also a business, the players know that and this intangibles stuff you're bringing up is more fluff than real substance.

I prefer letting Cizikas finish his contract and then walk, but if trading him ensures we can lock up Barzal or Pulock or even Toews, then you do it without hesitation.

The fact remains that Cizikas will be 30 next season and his best days are behind him. He is a pending UFA next season and re-signing him would be a bad move. Pageau is a better player and does all the things you mentioned. Ace on the PK, ace on FO's, younger, and signed long term. With Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau... Cizikas is no longer needed to play 15 minutes because those minutes aren't even available anymore.

Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau are the new backbone up the middle. Zeeker is now a luxury #4C. That's the reality.

I think the point is that there are a bunch of other overpaid players that some people would rather see go than Casey. Boychuk, Leddy, Clutterbuck, Ladd, and Komarov could go and be replaced somewhat easily with players we already have on the roster. Do I get rid of Cizikas to ensure we keep Barzal and Pulock? Sure, but not after checking the options with each of these other players first.

 

[PWJunior]

I think the point is that there are a bunch of other overpaid players that some people would rather see go than Casey. Boychuk, Leddy, Clutterbuck, Ladd, and Komarov could go and be replaced somewhat easily with players we already have on the roster. Do I get rid of Cizikas to ensure we keep Barzal and Pulock? Sure, but not after checking the options with each of these other players first.

Haha, I pretty much posted this exact thing in the other thread.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Haha, I pretty much posted this exact thing in the other thread.

So many threads!!!

 

[bstash19]

I’m fine with removing Boychuk, Clutter and Martin off the team depending on how it is done. Cizikas though...He is the best 4th liner in the league and between that and his PK play and FOs he is deserving of his money easily. If you want to save money you get rid of those 3 guys. Not to mention we just gave him that deal and he has earned it. You want to rub his teammates the wrong way, that is a quick and easy way to do it. The other 3 I’m sure they can see the reasons but with Casey it would not be a liked move at all. You need to show loyalty if you want other guys to sign long term deals with confidence or else you get short deals or they ask for more or put a million asterisks on a deal like a Ladd Contract etc. Cizikas is well worth his money and his value to the team is undeniable, you move a guy like that and you will have an unhappy dressing room not to mention the team results will suffer immensely lol Our record with him out is atrocious and it is not a coincidence . He does not play 5 minutes a night like most 4th liners... He plays up to 15 minutes most nights. Why ? Because he is that good. Some need to re-evaluate imho and I don’t mean that with any disrespect. Being very shortsighted to try to save $ anyway they can. If some want to save $2M and put tanner fritz there or stunt Koivulas development burying him on the 4th line and think those end in good outcomes idk lol There are other options and it can be done in other ways. Let it play out

please make paragraphs.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Trust me I get what you are saying but he is also an integral part of this team and it’s success. He still will be playing that much, he is on the PK. The Strictly business side was me saying Koivula or a guy like fritz in his place makes us worse and Cizikas leaving in itself makes us a much worse hockey team. You can attempt to negotiate a new deal all year next year and if he refuses to do so or won’t take a cheaper extension then you look at moving him at the deadline. As far as next year goes if we can keep him on the roster for most of the season he should not be going anywhere. If we want to improve on this season next year, removing him and not making any other moves of significance almost guarantees a much worse forward group. We would be talking Getting rid of the whole 4th line at that point basically and likely brassard. That is a lot of turnover for one season. Either way it had nothing to do with sentiment. I see Cizikas as a bigger part to this teams success I guess. Only “sentimental” part I made was how it would effect guys in the dressing room, business or not guys can still get a bad taste in their mouth. That is with any one. Casey I just think guys will mind a bit more. We can agree to disagree on that. They know it is a business but they are also human beings which we tend to forget easily when we are just tossing names around on a message board.

I would personally not look to trade Cizikas, but the reality is that the minute he hits free agency, some team may offer to pay him more than makes sense for us to keep him. He'll be 30 in Feb 2021; how many years do you realistically offer him to keep the AAV down? If Im Casey, Im getting to UFA to see if I can get one last "big" contract from some team wanting to pay me like a 3C, and unfortunately other contracts may force them to let him walk rather than match.

As for Martin, he's 31. Im not going more than 2 years, preferably 1, and no more than $1M AAV. He may be insulted by that, but paying for nostalgia rarely works out.

Its a conundrum around the league - good 4th line players price themselves out of jobs as they get older, unless they can move up the depth chart. Martin priced himself out of town once before, with Lou's help, getting that last contract with Toronto.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

please make paragraphs.

You must be a blast at parties. FYI, my phone was having a fit that day, after it went for a brief dip in the pool. It was tough to even write a coherent thought, let alone be proper. As for your request, no. It is a message board. If it bothers you, don’t read what I have to say. Sometimes I choose to use proper grammar and punctuation and sometimes I don’t care. Depends on the mood I’m in. Also, if you want to play grammar police, maybe start your sentence off with a capital letter bud. Take care.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Don't really see the point in re-signing Martin even he takes a substantial paycut.

There's three wingers here already under contract (Clutterbuck, Komarov and Johnston) who don't belong in the regular lineup aside from maybe the fourth line. Why add a fourth? There's only so many grinders you need.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

We can no longer afford paying 4th liners so much money. As their contracts expire or are close to expiring, we need to let them go and replace them with cheaper and younger players.

Ross can replace Martin next season. As much as it will pain people to say goodbye to Cizikas, we can't afford to pay a #4C so much money anymore. Zeeker is a pending UFA next season, replace him with Otto Koivula in 2021-22.

Clutterbuck has 2 more years after this one, maybe he can be moved in expansion when he only has 1 year left.

Martin ($2.5M) - Cizikas ($3.5M) - Clutter ($3.5M) is ridiculously expensive for a 4th line that is on the downswing. Ross ($1M) - Koivula (ELC $787K) - ELC player like Bardreau ($700K) or Wahlstrom ($925K) or even Dal Colle ($700K) saves us like $7M. That money is better spent elsewhere.

I used to feel this way, but I disagree on Cizikas. If he goes, we're back right back where we were before the Pageau acquisition. Three centers and a revolving door for the fourth one. Unless Koivula proves himself next season, you kind of have to re-sign Cizikas or the Pageau trade was pretty pointless.

Trim the fat on the wings and D. Leddy, Komarov, Clutterbuck, Hickey, Martin, etc. Get rid of some of these by any possible means.