Prospect Info: Matt Finn

[mikebel111*]

I consider both Nilsson and Loov to be better players than Finn. I think in two years, everyone will recognize that as fact.

The only thing those 2 have over Finn is skating.
And I love all 3 of them

 

[Guy Boucher]

The only thing those 2 have over Finn is skating.
And I love all 3 of them

Which is everything in today's NHL, especially considering how lackluster Finn's skating and foot speed is.

 

[mikebel111*]

Which is everything in today's NHL, especially considering how lackluster Finn's skating and foot speed is.

Okay while skating is a huge part of today's game than ever before. It doesnt define a player 100%.


Who is better
Player A, elite skater but bad defence and no tools offense

Player B, average skater, but nice defence and good tools on offence

Are you telling me player A is better?
Also Finn's skating isnt terrible, its very average

 

[Guy Boucher]

Okay while skating is a huge part of today's game than ever before. It doesnt define a player 100%.


Who is better
Player A, elite skater but bad defence and no tools offense

Player B, average skater, but nice defence and good tools on offence

Are you telling me player A is better?
Also Finn's skating isnt terrible, its very average

Percy is an average skater (or slightly below average). Finn is well below average.

And yes, skating that bad overwhelms any other traits a player has.

 

[Durkin67]

Okay while skating is a huge part of today's game than ever before. It doesnt define a player 100%.


Who is better
Player A, elite skater but bad defence and no tools offense

Player B, average skater, but nice defence and good tools on offence

Are you telling me player A is better?
Also Finn's skating isnt terrible, its very average

what intrigues me is that many want Strome, who is apparently not a great skater, over other players like Marner. Skatng is a big deal, sure, but why is it not a factor in stroke's case? because he's 6'2" and he plays centre?

 

[mikebel111*]

Percy is an average skater (or slightly below average). Finn is well below average.

And yes, skating that bad overwhelms any other traits a player has.

Really? I still maintain Finn is an average skater and not as bad as your saying
That second part is not true, you cant ignore a player all together just because his skating isnt good? That is just not right

 

[Durkin67]

And dominates the game in every other aspect.

So that mitigates skating issues... does this apply to other players who can add value in other areas, or simply the ones who dominate? Serious question...

 

[Babcocks Marner]

He didn't have a good year, at all. Hopefully his knee is better next year and he rebounds. I won't give up on this kid for at least 3 more years. The list is a long one of dmen that came almost out of nowhere at 24-25-26 years old in the NHL.

 

[JimmyPower]

So that mitigates skating issues... does this apply to other players who can add value in other areas, or simply the ones who dominate? Serious question...

I think you are over valuing skating. Obviously it is something needed in today's NHL. However I think there are plenty of cases that show players can become better skaters as their NHL careers progress.

In my opinion, having a high hockey IQ and being an average skater is much better than being a great skater and having a low hockey IQ, since it is much easier to work on the skating. This is why I wouldn't give up on Finn.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Really? I still maintain Finn is an average skater and not as bad as your saying
That second part is not true, you cant ignore a player all together just because his skating isnt good? That is just not right

That's life. If Josh Nicholls was even an average skater, he would be a really good NHLer. If he was a slightly above average skater, he'd be a star NHLer.

But he's not, so he isn't.

 

[Durkin67]

I think you are over valuing skating. Obviously it is something needed in today's NHL. However I think there are plenty of cases that show players can become better skaters as their NHL careers progress.

In my opinion, having a high hockey IQ and being an average skater is much better than being a great skater and having a low hockey IQ, since it is much easier to work on the skating. This is why I wouldn't give up on Finn.

Actually, quite the opposite... I'm of the mind that while important, you can get by with decent skating if you have other attributes like positioning, anticipation, superior fitness, and high compete level.

Gardiner is an example. Superb on his edges, makes bad reads, won't engage, shies away from contact.

 

[TLeafsFan]

So that mitigates skating issues... does this apply to other players who can add value in other areas, or simply the ones who dominate? Serious question...

I think his skating will come together just fine with some work with Underhill.

Taller, heavier kids take longer to grow into their bodies and get up to speed. He's aware and determined to work on it. That's what matters most at his age. Remember how high up in pro scout rankings. With this year's deep draft, that's not an easy thing to accomplish.

 

[Durkin67]

First of all, it's all relative. I'd argue that Strome's skating right now is better than Finn's.

Secondly, Strome's skating has improved from last season. So there's a certain progression that you can chart which unfortunately doesn't exist with Finn. If Finn had a steady progression in his skating from his draft year, I'd be singing a different tune (or at the very least shutting my mouth). But it hasn't improved with him.

Thirdly, yes, size and strength can compensate for skating (though only to a degree). With Strome's reach and assuming he adds strength, he only needs to be an average skater to be impactful in the NHL.

Finn is strong enough but doesn't have the kind of reach you need to overcome those types of skating deficiencies.

And like I said, Finn's skating isn't even average. It's below average. It will keep him out of the NHL.

I think we need to withhold judgement and let him rehab that knee. Also, Gards has both size and reach. And great skating. He's also the most frustrating defenseman to watch on the Leafs organisation.

 

[mikebel111*]

First of all, it's all relative. I'd argue that Strome's skating right now is better than Finn's.

Secondly, Strome's skating has improved from last season. So there's a certain progression that you can chart which unfortunately doesn't exist with Finn. If Finn had a steady progression in his skating from his draft year, I'd be singing a different tune (or at the very least shutting my mouth). But it hasn't improved with him.

Thirdly, yes, size and strength can compensate for skating (though only to a degree). With Strome's reach and assuming he adds strength, he only needs to be an average skater to be impactful in the NHL.

Finn is strong enough but doesn't have the kind of reach you need to overcome those types of skating deficiencies.

And like I said, Finn's skating isn't even average. It's below average. It will keep him out of the NHL.

Finn's skating has improved a lot and should continue. And no his skating wont keep him out of NHL.
Like before, thats just not right

 

[Menzinger]

I'd cut him off at 23-24, barring injury. If he doesn't see NHL time by then, we may have to cut bait.

But why? The leafs don't lose anything by holding on to him - some players are just late bloomers - look at Alex Steen.

Detroit certainly has no issue letting some of their prospects 'cook' for long periods of time.

Now sure, if he hasn't shown a shred of improvement that is a different story, but there is nothing wrong with patience - particularly with a rebuilding team like the Leafs are now.

 

[Rufio65*]

I was also expecting a franchise player to be drafted with our 2nd round pick

I've been watching the NHL for decades so I know this pretty common

There are tons of D prospects taken after Finn,who are much further ahead in development. Finn got exposed in the Memorial Cup Final when the tempo increased, and now that the pace has increased in pro hockey he can't handle it. The kid has struggled in a huge way, and there's no way to sugar coat that.

I have hopes that Rupert, Loov and Brown will make an impact in the NHL. People are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think that Finn can play at the NHL level.

 

[JimmyPower]

Actually, quite the opposite... I'm of the mind that while important, you can get by with decent skating if you have other attributes like positioning, anticipation, superior fitness, and high compete level.

Gardiner is an example. Superb on his edges, makes bad reads, won't engage, shies away from contact.

"Getting by" is exactly what Gardiner has done thus far. But the lack of hockey IQ will hinder any further progress. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Community]

There are tons of D prospects taken after Finn,who are much further ahead in development. Finn got exposed in the Memorial Cup Final when the tempo increased, and now that the pace has increased in pro hockey he can't handle it. The kid has struggled in a huge way, and there's no way to sugar coat that.

I have hopes that Rupert, Loov and Brown will make an impact in the NHL. People are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think that Finn can play at the NHL level.

So Finn got exposed in the Memorial Cup Final when the tempo increased, but not in the OHL regular season, the OHL playoffs, or the rest of the Memorial Cup when he was dominate? I'd argue that the tempo was lower in the Memorial Cup Final where players haven't played in weeks and were playing back-to-back games. I would actually bet on Finn playing in the NHL.

There are also defensemen taken ahead of Finn in the draft that are behind him in terms of development. Heck, NYR fans are high on Brady Skjei and he's not in the AHL or NHL yet so does that mean he's a bust too? Hint: No...

 

[ULF_55]

So Finn got exposed in the Memorial Cup Final when the tempo increased, but not in the OHL regular season, the OHL playoffs, or the rest of the Memorial Cup when he was dominate? I'd argue that the tempo was lower in the Memorial Cup Final where players haven't played in weeks and were playing back-to-back games. I would actually bet on Finn playing in the NHL.

There are also defensemen taken ahead of Finn in the draft that are behind him in terms of development. Heck, NYR fans are high on Brady Skjei and he's not in the AHL or NHL yet so does that mean he's a bust too? Hint: No...

It's difficult to know how Finn would have done in the SweHL, or Loov would have done playing against kids.

At this point all you can do is compare how each of the prospects are doing against AHL competition. With that in mind, the real competition are all the prospects other teams have.

Perhaps Finn could have made a WJC on the small ice, but it is probably clear why Canada wouldn't take him to the big ice.

No rush, he's just 21, unless he can't stay healthy we shouldn't be concerned until he's 23-24, and even then 25-27 year old defenders can still provide some depth for an NHL team.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I think we need to withhold judgement and let him rehab that knee. Also, Gards has both size and reach. And great skating. He's also the most frustrating defenseman to watch on the Leafs organisation.

You're kiddin right? Gards has the physique of a 16 year old girl.

 

[BDizzle*]

Finn got exposed in the Memorial Cup Final when the tempo increased, and now that the pace has increased in pro hockey he can't handle it. The kid has struggled in a huge way, and there's no way to sugar coat that.

Please explain your logic... do you know how many goals he was on the ice for during the final? I am a huge Guelph fan and watched the game live at Budweiser Gardens...and from what I recall Zach Leslie, Bathilsberger and Harpur were the ones who were on the ice during Edmonton's goals...while Finn and Ebert were major anchors for the team.

 

[diceman934]

Finn is at best a longshot to be anything more then a depth D man...I remember everyone on here being high on Blacker.

His skating needs to improve to be considered average and just so that everyone knows he has been working on it with a skating instructor for years. He struggled at the AHL level and that is a very bad sign, but not a surprise to me at all.....hockey's most important skill is skating.

 

[mikebel111*]

Finn is at best a longshot to be anything more then a depth D man...I remember everyone on here being high on Blacker.

His skating needs to improve to be considered average and just so that everyone knows he has been working on it with a skating instructor for years. He struggled at the AHL level and that is a very bad sign, but not a surprise to me at all.....hockey's most important skill is skating.

Umm no, depth D man I wont argue because thats plain wrong. Yup leafs fans could totally handle a long rebuild by making conclusions about a player at 21
And some facts to correct you on, he struggled early, but after getting called up, was one of the best d man and sadly getting hurt
And I wont waste my time on skating topic

 

[diceman934]

Umm no, depth D man I wont argue because thats plain wrong. Yup leafs fans could totally handle a long rebuild by making conclusions about a player at 21
And some facts to correct you on, he struggled early, but after getting called up, was one of the best d man and sadly getting hurt
And I wont waste my time on skating topic

Please tell me what about the fact that Finn has bad feet means that I am not ready for a long rebuild? Stop applying nonsense in a debate about a player....it is not needed or required.

Finn did struggle in the AHL and on his return was not our best AHL d man before he got hurt. Those are the facts.

As for you not wanting to discuss his skating....well his skating is the issue, he has bad feet, his transnational skating is poor and it is a huge issue!

If you had any working knowledge of just how hard it is to improve your skating at all, you would then understand why he is a long-shot! I did not say dump him, trade him or anything else, but people need to temper their expectations as he is at best a long-shot, and sometimes they come in!

 

[mikebel111*]

Please tell me what about the fact that Finn has bad feet means that I am not ready for a long rebuild? Stop applying nonsense in a debate about a player....it is not needed or required.

Finn did struggle in the AHL and on his return was not our best AHL d man before he got hurt. Those are the facts.

As for you not wanting to discuss his skating....well his skating is the issue, he has bad feet, his transnational skating is poor and it is a huge issue!

If you had any working knowledge of just how hard it is to improve your skating at all, you would then understand why he is a long-shot! I did not say dump him, trade him or anything else, but people need to temper their expectations as he is at best a long-shot, and sometimes they come in!

Lol way to reply aggressively to me for no reason. I was just stating that leafs fans harp on youngsters so easily, so yes I refuse to think leafs can handle a rebuild(I never meant you BTW).

And I never said our best AHL d man, I said one of our best AHL d man. There is a difference. And as Finn mentioned "the struggles were mental, not ability" and guess what he is right.
The skating I discussed already and wont get into that again.

One year in AHL doesnt make someone a long shot