Value of: Matt Duchene to the habs

[Celly Hard]

Ahahahaha what a joke. Start with sergachev add your first then keep adding.

 

[Habsawce]

Ahahahaha what a joke. Start with sergachev add your first then keep adding.

and then add some more, and just when you think you can't add anymore; ADD MORE!

 

[DCarriere]

Love when teams overvalue their players immensely.
Not saying that offer is good, it's terrible.

Can't wait for Colorado to trade Duchene for a 1st and some decent prospect and see you guys lose your minds.

 

[Haatley]

Montreal adds Sergachev.

 

[tucker3434]

Love when teams overvalue their players immensely.
Not saying that offer is good, it's terrible.

Can't wait for Colorado to trade Duchene for a 1st and some decent prospect and see you guys lose your minds.

Probably shouldn't hold your breath on that one. The Avs have no actual reason to trade him. Why on earth would they throw him away for nothing?

 

[Weast]

Sergachev is probably what Colorado wants with maybe a depth player thrown in

 

[strictlyrandy]

Probably shouldn't hold your breath on that one. The Avs have no actual reason to trade him. Why on earth would they throw him away for nothing?

Because this is HF where Avs players aren't good until they go to another team. I call it "ROR Syndrome".

 

[strictlyrandy]

Sergachev is probably what Colorado wants with maybe a depth player thrown in

An unproven yet promising prospect with "maybe a depth player thrown in"? Duchene has 3 years til he's a UFA. ROR had 1 and returned a far greater package than that. Duchene would return a far better package IMO.

 

[Drij]

Duchene for Subban

 

[Pual Statsny]

Think the ROR trade, then think about how much O'Reilly demanded, then realize that Duchene's a pretty comparably skilled, cheaper player, at a similar age. So, think O'Reilly's return and add.

Blue-chip defensive prospect (Zadorov)
Near-NHL ready forward prospect (Compher)
Middle-six young forward (Grigorenko)
Early second (31st)

for McGinn and O'Reilly (unsigned, but deal worked out)

So we're starting with Sergachev and adding quite a bit for Duchene and somebody like Mitchell.

 

[Muffin]

Think the ROR trade, then think about how much O'Reilly demanded, then realize that Duchene's a pretty comparably skilled, cheaper player, at a similar age. So, think O'Reilly's return and add.

Blue-chip defensive prospect (Zadorov)
Near-NHL ready forward prospect (Compher)
Middle-six young forward (Grigorenko)
Early second (31st)

for McGinn and O'Reilly (unsigned, but deal worked out)

So we're starting with Sergachev and adding quite a bit for Duchene and somebody like Mitchell.

So Sergachev + Andrighetto + McCarron + 2nd?

 

[Avs44]

Think the ROR trade, then think about how much O'Reilly demanded, then realize that Duchene's a pretty comparably skilled, cheaper player, at a similar age. So, think O'Reilly's return and add.

Blue-chip defensive prospect (Zadorov)
Near-NHL ready forward prospect (Compher)
Middle-six young forward (Grigorenko)
Early second (31st)

for McGinn and O'Reilly (unsigned, but deal worked out)

So we're starting with Sergachev and adding quite a bit for Duchene and somebody like Mitchell.

Not even that. Avs had to trade ROR, they can keep Duchene. Think what Johansen got.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Not even that. Avs had to trade ROR, they can keep Duchene. Think what Johansen got.

Sure they can...and at that price, they will.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

If that's all Duchene is worth, then I'm sure we can get Galchenyuk for Soderberg and Bigras, right?

 

[strictlyrandy]

Sure they can...and at that price, they will.

Lol you talk as if Duchene has a cap crippling contract and wants out. You clearly don't know much about Duchene or the Avs if you think they need or want to to move him.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Lol you talk as if Duchene has a cap crippling contract and wants out. You clearly don't know much about Duchene or the Avs if you think they need or want to to move him.

Where have I said anything remotely close to that ?

I just disagree with the notion that Duchene could get you the same return as Johansen, based on...

a) Johansen being signed at $4.0m last year, and still this year while Duchene is at $6.0m...which would make it harder to trade for an ELC player like Jones.

b) Duchene hitting full UFA statuts in three years, while Johansen will most probably be signed to a 7-or-8 year deal, starting NEXT year.

c) Duchene coming off two subpar seasons (subpar to his skills I mean), not hitting 60-points mark, while Johansen was coming off of two season where he averaged 67 points.

d) Johansen, at 6'3 and 223, fitting the 'profile' of what teams are usually looking for as a 1st line center more than Duchene at 5'11 and 201.

I'm not saying Duchene isn't a skilled player, that the Avs are looking to trade him, or that his contract, in terms of caphit, is unbearable. I just disagree that he would fetch the same return as Johansen, who shouldn't even be used as a comparable here.

 

[Joe Sakic]

We don't want a 34 year old like wtf...

 

[strictlyrandy]

Where have I said anything remotely close to that ?

I just disagree with the notion that Duchene could get you the same return as Johansen, based on...

a) Johansen being signed at $4.0m last year, and still this year while Duchene is at $6.0m...which would make it harder to trade for an ELC player like Jones.

b) Duchene hitting full UFA statuts in three years, while Johansen will most probably be signed to a 7-or-8 year deal, starting NEXT year.

c) Duchene coming off two subpar seasons (subpar to his skills I mean), not hitting 60-points mark, while Johansen was coming off of two season where he averaged 67 points.

d) Johansen, at 6'3 and 223, fitting the 'profile' of what teams are usually looking for as a 1st line center more than Duchene at 5'11 and 201.

I'm not saying Duchene isn't a skilled player, that the Avs are looking to trade him, or that his contract, in terms of caphit, is unbearable. I just disagree that he would fetch the same return as Johansen, who shouldn't even be used as a comparable here.

Didn't read it that way. I disagree with the return though. I think statistically, Johansen and Duchene are really similar. Different players but nearly identical production last time I looked. I look at what ROR got with 1 year til UFA and believe Duchene would return much more. 3 years under contract at a good price and a better player than ROR imo.

 

[go4hockey]

I love this guy with the way he plays, we are in need of a top 6 forward and I would love to add him to the habs.

I wouldn't do this trade until after training camp. With the way Mikhail Sergachyov has looked in development camp, he has the skills to be in the NHL, but if he isn't ready, I wouldn't do this deal until he is ready, so here is my offer:

To Montreal

Matt Duchene

To Colorado

Tomas Plekenec
Nathan Beaulieu

thoughts?

Thoughts? This is total junk offer and they could get better from a bunch of teams. That offer is so bad it couldn't even be a starting point.

 

[go4hockey]

Of all the ridiculous lateral Plekanec proposals... I'm okay with this one. I mean it's not quite there but workable.

Not workable for the Avs. Offer that and they tell you to call back with totally different offer if your serious. The OP is awful for the Avs.

 

[go4hockey]

I don't understand your question, which makes me think that you don't understand my comment.

I mean, there would need to more incentive than just Beaulieu to make it work for Colorado because Duchesne is a much younger player than Plekanec. That doesn't mean it cannot be done, it just needs work... it's "workable".

If you think that Plekanec can be the main piece in a deal for Duchesne, then you have your value of Duchesne way lower than it is in real life. If MTL called and he was the main piece trade talks would end right there.

 

[blankall]

Plekanec at 34 and a 7mil cap hit has very little value. Think more like the return Calgary got for Iginla than Duchene.

 

[AMDZen]

If that's all Duchene is worth, then I'm sure we can get Galchenyuk for Soderberg and Bigras, right?

That isn't even comparable to how bad the OP is. At least Soderberg is only 30 and making a few million less. More like Galchenyuk for Iginla and Bigras.

There is a reason Habs fans want to sell Plekky off in nearly every trade proposal. You can smell the cliff is nye, and he's about to fall off of it just like Iggy did.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Didn't read it that way. I disagree with the return though. I think statistically, Johansen and Duchene are really similar. Different players but nearly identical production last time I looked. I look at what ROR got with 1 year til UFA and believe Duchene would return much more. 3 years under contract at a good price and a better player than ROR imo.

The comparison with ROR is closer than Johansen in my opinion. It's not so much a question of production, both players CAN and most probably WILL produce. But the fact that Johansen is taller and bigger surely is an advantage for GM on paper, and the fact that Johansen can be secured for, at the time of the trade, 9 years and a half over 3 year only for Duchene is a HUGE factor in my evaluation.

Now comparing him to ROR makes a lot more sense to me. And just to be clear, I'm not arguing that the initial proposal was nearly enough for Duchene. But if you take a look at what the Avs got in the O'Reilly deal...

• M.Grigorenko: A former 1st round pick, coming with kind of a question mark, considering he had failed to meet the expectations Buffalo had for him at the time of the trade. My guess is Grigorenko had more value for your head coach than he had for ANY other team at this point in his career.

• N.Zadorov: Considered a blue chip prospect by many, but again, somewhat of a question mark, considering he still hasn't establish himself as a regular in the NHL.

• J.T. Compher: An interesting project playing in the Big-10 who, at the time, had recorded 23 goals and 55 points in 69 games over two seasons.

• A very early 2nd rounder.

Now the closest comparables for that in the Habs organization, in my opinion, would probably be...

• N.Scherbak: A 1st rounder in 2014 who, so far, failed to make the impact expected by the organization due to injury.

• N.Juulsen: A 1st rounder in 2015 with size, who kind had a setback last year offensively, but apparently improved defensively.

• Jake Evans: Probably the closest to Compher the Habs have right now, but to be honest, I don't even think it's a good comparable.

• 2nd round pick: Could be anywhere at this point.

Now I would give this package less value at this point than what the Avs got in the ROR deal...but I also don't see a player like McGinn (and no Mitchell ain't McGinn) in the OP deal. McGinn was coming off an injury, but flirted with the 20-goal mark the year before. Getting a 26-years old 'luxury' third liner who can score 20 goals adds value to the deal, even on a 1-year contract.

Now I'm not saying the package above would be interesting enough for the Avs to actually trade Duchene, I'm not familiar enough with the organization to really judge that. But I'll say this...that package would probably be more than what the Habs would be willing to pay for 3-years of Duchene, considering we already have way too many centers, and a hole on the left wing in our top-6.

The only way the Habs consider bringing Duchene in is if Plekanec is included in the deal...and I don't see why the Avs would be doing that. So my final verdict: Avs and Habs aren't good trading partner here, at least, not for Duchene.

 

[strictlyrandy]

The comparison with ROR is closer than Johansen in my opinion. It's not so much a question of production, both players CAN and most probably WILL produce. But the fact that Johansen is taller and bigger surely is an advantage for GM on paper, and the fact that Johansen can be secured for, at the time of the trade, 9 years and a half over 3 year only for Duchene is a HUGE factor in my evaluation.

Now comparing him to ROR makes a lot more sense to me. And just to be clear, I'm not arguing that the initial proposal was nearly enough for Duchene. But if you take a look at what the Avs got in the O'Reilly deal...

• M.Grigorenko: A former 1st round pick, coming with kind of a question mark, considering he had failed to meet the expectations Buffalo had for him at the time of the trade. My guess is Grigorenko had more value for your head coach than he had for ANY other team at this point in his career.

• N.Zadorov: Considered a blue chip prospect by many, but again, somewhat of a question mark, considering he still hasn't establish himself as a regular in the NHL.

• J.T. Compher: An interesting project playing in the Big-10 who, at the time, had recorded 23 goals and 55 points in 69 games over two seasons.

• A very early 2nd rounder.

Now the closest comparables for that in the Habs organization, in my opinion, would probably be...

• N.Scherbak: A 1st rounder in 2014 who, so far, failed to make the impact expected by the organization due to injury.

• N.Juulsen: A 1st rounder in 2015 with size, who kind had a setback last year offensively, but apparently improved defensively.

• Jake Evans: Probably the closest to Compher the Habs have right now, but to be honest, I don't even think it's a good comparable.

• 2nd round pick: Could be anywhere at this point.

Now I would give this package less value at this point than what the Avs got in the ROR deal...but I also don't see a player like McGinn (and no Mitchell ain't McGinn) in the OP deal. McGinn was coming off an injury, but flirted with the 20-goal mark the year before. Getting a 26-years old 'luxury' third liner who can score 20 goals adds value to the deal, even on a 1-year contract.

Now I'm not saying the package above would be interesting enough for the Avs to actually trade Duchene, I'm not familiar enough with the organization to really judge that. But I'll say this...that package would probably be more than what the Habs would be willing to pay for 3-years of Duchene, considering we already have way too many centers, and a hole on the left wing in our top-6.

The only way the Habs consider bringing Duchene in is if Plekanec is included in the deal...and I don't see why the Avs would be doing that. So my final verdict: Avs and Habs aren't good trading partner here, at least, not for Duchene.

That Habs package isn't close to me for what ROR got, and he had a year til ufa. Duchene has 3 and is the better player, he'd return more. Pleks wouldn't be a bad piece in a deal...but not the center piece and the Habs would be retaining as the Avs can't take that cap back.