So why do you think that after a full year of trying to trade him they didn't have a better offer?
Confirmed with Link: Mathieu Joseph traded to Blues
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Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
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Not sure about useless but let’s hope that Amadio is better in the 5 on 5 department, and Gregor is better than MJ on the PK. It is interesting that 2 players are covering MJ’s role now plus the 3rd rounder we gave up.
jbeck5
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2009
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This. We have no depth. No prospects. No core. Just a few flashy players. No draft picks.
We may as well start to try to sell off our assets and accumulate as many picks and prospects as we can and try to build this the right way.
So much damage has been done recently that you can't build a winner from this. You have to tear down and restart.
JungleBeat
Registered User
Mark Stones Spleen
Trouba's elbow
Replaceable doesn't necessarily mean negative value. Faksa is replaceable, hence no asset needing to be attached to him in a trade. They should be in the same territory of value. A 3rd round pick is far more negative than it looked like he was.
I'd rather have Joseph and a 3rd over Amadio for example. If Staios was shopping him around for a while and knew he had to dump a 3rd pick for him in advance of acquiring any of the FAs, I just think it would have been better to keep him.
Norris shouldn't be considered a skater at this point.
ACLEVERNAME
HANDS
- Jan 6, 2010
- 6,808
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Too big a part of the country club atmosphere I suspect. Culture change!
DrEasy
Out rumptackling
Oh no, we could have drafted this guy with the 3rd round pick we gave away!
The NHL tracks "speed stats" like speed bursts over 20mph and top speed reached. Batherson and Norris are well above average (80th percentile) in both categories.
RAFI BOMB
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- May 11, 2016
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The Blues just signed his brother as well.
They aren't.
Norris is a fine skater, Batherson's feet are heavy.
People will look at the NHL's skating stats and assume the players with the highest top speeds are the best skaters, but quickness is significantly more important than whoever can hit the highest speed going on a big rush up the ice after many strides.
Joseph had tremendous quickness. Different level than those two as a skater.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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For all those lamenting losing speed from the lineup with the loss of Joseph,
From NHL Edge stats:
Top speed Joseph:
2024: 22.85
2023: 22.86
2022: 22.74
So he's fast, but I think we've glorified just how fast he is.
Greig
2024: 22.87
Ostapchuk
2024: 22.92
Norris
2024: 22.95
2022: 23.14
Stutzle
2024: 23.47
2023: 23.16
Gregor
2024: 22.97
2023: 23.62
2022: 23.03
Heck, league average is 22.03 to 22.10 depending on the year, we have guys that you might not expect who are above average
Batherson:
2024: 22.64
2023: 22.45
Tkachuk
2024: 22.37
Also, to put "real" fast in perspective:
Formenton
2022: 24.21
McDavid
2024: 24.19
2023:24.16
2022:24.14
From NHL Edge stats:
Top speed Joseph:
2024: 22.85
2023: 22.86
2022: 22.74
So he's fast, but I think we've glorified just how fast he is.
Greig
2024: 22.87
Ostapchuk
2024: 22.92
Norris
2024: 22.95
2022: 23.14
Stutzle
2024: 23.47
2023: 23.16
Gregor
2024: 22.97
2023: 23.62
2022: 23.03
Heck, league average is 22.03 to 22.10 depending on the year, we have guys that you might not expect who are above average
Batherson:
2024: 22.64
2023: 22.45
Tkachuk
2024: 22.37
Also, to put "real" fast in perspective:
Formenton
2022: 24.21
McDavid
2024: 24.19
2023:24.16
2022:24.14
Yikes the hyperbole.
We have a 22 year old dynamic #1 C who can score 90+ points.
We have a 23 year old top-end power-forward who can score 35+ goals and 80+ points.
We have a 21 year old defenseman who skates like the wind and has the potential to be a Norris contender.
You have Pinto (22) and Greig (21), and even with the question marks around them, Chabot, Norris and Batherson are good NHL players.
And we just acquired a Vezina trophy winning goalie and drafted a 6'3, 200+ lb right-shot defenseman with elite offensive skills.
This teams needs better structure, better depth and stable veterans who can play defined roles every single game.
That's what Staios is doing here. Chychrun has more name recognition than Jensen, but Jensen is a better fit for the role we need. Amadio isn't as fast or flashy as Joseph can be, but he's a predictable, versatile forward that is better suited to be a bottom 6 player on a winning team. Perron isn't a superstar offensive winger, but he's a grizzled veteran who'll improve our 23rd ranked PP.
This team can be a winner, and it looks a lot better today than it did 3 weeks ago.
Beech
What A Wonderful Day
- Nov 25, 2020
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RAFI BOMB
Registered User
- May 11, 2016
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Wouldn't acceleration be the better label than quickness? I would associate acceleration with speed bursts and separation speed and quickness with agility such as quick cuts in different directions. Or maybe they are both intertwined.
BigRig4
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2014
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It's crazy how the difference between fast and average is like 1 or 2 mph. Goes to show how hard it is to separate yourself from the pack when you're at the top level..
edguy
Registered User
Faksa has 1 less year and can play a more valuable position, center. Its not hard to see why a team would value him over Joseph.
This summer has me really thinking of a Herb Brooks quote from the movie Miracle.. "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones."
The right player isnt always the better player.
A lot of us are down for change. This is pretty minimal change with poor asset management
A lot of people are trying to paint these players as bad apples with zero proof but as justification for getting poor value or in Josephs case giving up a pick aswell.
If the locker room is cancerous then minimal changes won't change much
I am willing to wait and see but the Chychrun and Joseph trades are both rough and Perron while was awsome and exactly what we needed if he was 2 years younger. He lost a step already and won't get PP time here. Same issue that Tarasenko had
Butchy Dakkar
Dark Butch Yak didn't seem right.
- Oct 3, 2020
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The eye test says he’s very fast though, way faster than average, he blows by defenders to create breakaways. And short-handed chances galore.
And boo for bringing up Formenton. Such a loss for nothing, I wish he had made better decisions (or wasn’t an offender, not trying to reopen a can of worms here)
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Yeah, Joseph is quicker getting up to speed, but he's not outright fast. Formenton was both, which is why he stood out so much.
NHL also tracks a stat called "speed bursts over 20mph", which would be more indicative of whether players can find open ice and get to top speed quickly.
Batherson and Norris are well above average in that category as well.
Relapsing
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Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Well, walking is 2.5 mph, so 2 mph faster would be like slowly walking past someone who is standing still, that's a big deal.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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I think that's just how frequently they hit those speeds, but because it's a raw count, it's hard to compare guys that played different mins/number of games so I didn't post that.
Nobody is saying the locker room is cancerous or that these are "bad apples". It doesn't have to be such an extreme.
Off the ice, the locker room needs more even-keeled professionals who bring the same work ethic day in day out and can deal with the ups and downs of an 82 game season. On the ice, we need players who can fill different roles to give the team better balance.
Steve Staios has said as much.
This room had too many of the same guy - early to mid-20's guy who hasn't played in many important games or been around winning. Same temperament, same stage of life, same experiences.
And is it stands, we're likely to have 8-9 players on the opening night roster that weren't on the team at the end of last year.
That's quite a bit of change.
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