Traded Mathieu Joseph traded to Blues

[swiftwin]

I wonder if there were better offers before Pinto's agent decided to hold a gun to Staios' head and basically destroy any leverage he had with a Joseph trade.

Pinto's agent did what he did right before free agency for a reason. Don't blame him for the contracts Staios handed out.

 

[edguy]

But should be worth more to a team with no depth or speed like Ottawa than dumping him with a 3rd rounder.

The salary cap is 88 million he makes less than 3. Math isnt that hard he is not an 'anchor'.

Cap space is an asset. What team is gonna to willingly help another team clear 3 million for a player that is easily replaceable?

Nobodys saying the contract is an anchor.

 

[CallSaul]

Skating fast and playing fast are two very different things. You need to do both to be fast, Batherson doesnt play that way. You keep bringing up Norris he has played 58 games in two years, was scared of his own shadow last year and has had a 3rd shoulder surgery. Just stop.

Jensen lost a step last year its well documented. Whenever you want to face the reality of the situation I welcome it.

Jensen played poorly last year, he didn't "lose a step". Read the Caps board. They all say he's still a top-end skater, the problem was his decision making in their new system.

Joseph was going to be a 4th liner on this team. His speed can be replaced. And to be frank, he didn't play fast either. He was great in a straight line through the neutral zone, but other than that, largely useless.

 

[Senator Stanley]

But should be worth more to a team with no depth or speed like Ottawa than dumping him with a 3rd rounder.

The salary cap is 88 million he makes less than 3. Math isnt that hard he is not an 'anchor'.

I do think that that second year of Joseph's deal is a big part of this, too.

Looking at 25-26 now, they're in pretty good shape. With Joseph off the books for 25-26, they've freed up money for Greig's extension. And the cost savings from going from Forsberg to Soogard or another cheaper backup should cover the majority of Ullmark's pay bump (assuming/praying that happens). Add in an extension for Giroux presumably at slightly less than $6.5M, and they're well set up for the next two seasons.

 

[CallSaul]

Pinto's agent did what he did right before free agency for a reason. Don't blame him for the contracts Staios handed out.

Pinto's agents posturing was a last gasp attempt to get more for a player with zero leverage.

But as it turns out, there were no offer sheets available and now he has no arbitration rights.

So I'd expect a bridge at a team-friendly number in the coming weeks.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

I think Joseph and Chychrun were the party boys!

I actually wonder if there is something to this. Changing the culture is not just bringing new people in. Maybe he is not the personality or character that fits with management vision.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Nobodys saying the contract is an anchor.

I did and while it may be an overstatement, it is true that his contract has negative value

 

[milkbag]

Are there two more overrated players in franchise history than Joseph and Brannstrom?

Johnathon Dahlen

 

[bert]

Pinto's agents posturing was a last gasp attempt to get more for a player with zero leverage.

But as it turns out, there were no offer sheets available and now he has no arbitration rights.

So I'd expect a bridge at a team-friendly number in the coming weeks.

After the deal today? That would put an exclamation mark on how bad this is. The only reason to do this deal today was to sign Pinto long term at a higher AAV. If they can get him on bridge they didnt have to do the deal at all.

 

[Big Muddy]

It doesn't matter where he's slotted into in the bottom 6. He'll be used in Joseph's spot on the PK which is the most important thing.

LOL. Joseph had 16:28 TOI/G last year. I’m pretty sure that not all of those minutes were on the PK.

This isn’t really a big push to make an argument to keep Joseph so much, but it seems like its Amadio who is replacing Joseph.

Plus, speed is useful in other facets of the game besides PK like to get behind defenders and stretch a defense which you seem to be ignoring for whatever reason (I edited/added to my post btw).

 

[CallSaul]

After the deal today? That would put an exclamation mark on how bad this is. The only reason to do this deal today was to sign Pinto long term at a higher AAV. If they can get him on bridge they didnt have to do the deal at all.

Yeah, even after the deal today.

We still have to fill out the 4th line and I think JBD will be gone soon, so we'll be looking for another RD to play with Kleven.

I think this deal is equally about those spots as it is about Pinto.

I'd rather allocate more money to upgrade JBD and make sure Hamonic stays as the #7 than keep Joseph as the RW4 at almost $3M.

 

[Senscore]

Johnathon Dahlen

My turn.

Alexei Kaigorodov

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

This isn't a 3rd for nothing. It's a 3rd for whatever they use that 3M x 2Y of cap space on.

On paper, this trade looks bad.

When looked at with all the other moves and the intended goal of the offseason, it's understandable. They are trying to shake up as much of a failed roster as possible and bring in veterans to change the room. The amount of roster changeover they are trying to do this offseason is very difficult.

If someone wants to argue that they think Joseph is closer to the player he showed at the start of the season and they should have kept him, that's fair. I don't think the argument that it shouldn't have cost a 3rd to move him. That's the market. They will get something in return via using that cap space, which they have already done via adding multiple free agents yesterday.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There is no way Staios gave up a 3rd if he could have traded him for nothing.

If he thought he could shed him through waivers at training camp .. he would have done that.

Maybe people are over valuing Joseph here. It was no secret that the Sens were trying to move him. I am sure they tried to move him without giving up anything else. If he could not be moved without that sweetener.. here we are.

Is this Staios blinking wrt to the Pinto negotiation.. Maybe .. I am sure Pinto's rep would have given Staios a bit of time if Staios thought he had options to move Joseph.

Looks like the league is saying he isn't worth his contract .. No way Staios jumped at this offer if he had better options and he has been trying for a while.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I do think that that second year of Joseph's deal is a big part of this, too.

Looking at 25-26 now, they're in pretty good shape. With Joseph off the books for 25-26, they've freed up money for Greig's extension. And the cost savings from going from Forsberg to Soogard or another cheaper backup should cover the majority of Ullmark's pay bump (assuming/praying that happens). Add in an extension for Giroux presumably at slightly less than $6.5M, and they're kind of set for the next two seasons.

We'll be paying 4M to a 37 year old Perron in 25/26.

No money freed up swapping him in for Joseph. Less in fact.

 

[swiftwin]

There is no way Staios gave up a 3rd if he could have traded him for nothing.

If he thought he could shed him through waivers at training camp .. he would have done that.

Maybe people are over valuing Joseph here. It was no secret that the Sens were trying to move him. I am sure they tried to move him without giving up anything else. If he could not be moved without that sweetener.. here we are.

Is this Staios blinking wrt to the Pinto negotiation.. Maybe .. I am sure Pinto's rep would have given Staios a bit of time if Staios thought he had options to move Joseph.

Looks like the league is saying he isn't worth his contract .. No way Staios jumped at this offer if he had better options and he has been trying for a while.

Lmaoooooo. Nice appeal to authority.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

After the deal today? That would put an exclamation mark on how bad this is. The only reason to do this deal today was to sign Pinto long term at a higher AAV. If they can get him on bridge they didnt have to do the deal at all.

The people with all the info felt they had to make this deal.

We will find out why when Pinto signs and if other moves are made.

At this time you claim his contract isn't a net negative but no other GM was willing to consider it otherwise and yes, part of it is that the other teams know how much of in a tight spot we are so they have even more leverage than normal.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If it facilitates pinto signing...mkay.

Joseph supposedly was a party boi, and had been suspended by the team before. That and his salary + Jacques assessment made him expendable.

I don't think this is for the Pinto signing.

I think this is for a 3M luxury #5 type defenseman. They were apparently in on Joel Edmundson yesterday. I see it being something like that. Then Pinto gets bridged at 3M or so.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I dunno. Chychrun maybe, but I watched Joseph closely last year and many nights he was the guy who was working the hardest, creating chances, backing off defenders with his speed.

Overvalue? Sure, maybe. But we GAVE up a third to be rid of him, f*** a doodle doo.

Joseph was fantastic for the first quarter or third of the season and then became a total passenger except for a game here or there the rest of the year.

It's disappointing that they had to pay to offload him, but there is probably a reason they desperately wanted him gone.

Clean house, see what happens. If the sens are indeed taking losses to move players they feel are detrimental to the locker room then we could very well see a big change in this team next season.

Or maybe staios is in over his head and doesn't know what he's doing.

Let's hope for the best. This season will he defining for this version of the senators. Either thr start of something glorious, or the end of another shitty chapter.

 

[swiftwin]

We'll be paying 4M to a 37 year old Perron in 25/26.

No money freed up swapping him in for Joseph. Less in fact.

I mean, I would argue Perron is filling in for Tarasenko and Amadio is filling in for Joseph. But that's just me.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lmaoooooo. Nice appeal to authority.

You are the master. I learned from the best. Do you think Staios never exhausted his options in moving him?

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Lmaoooooo. Nice appeal to authority.

That’s not what appeal to authority means

 

[Relapsing]

Just seeing the news... I'm pretty sure we've heard rumblings about Joseph contributing to the party attitude in the room.

I have no idea how true that is, but may be a reason to get him gone now if we're trying to legitimately change this teams attitude and culture

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, even after the deal today.

We still have to fill out the 4th line and I think JBD will be gone soon, so we'll be looking for another RD to play with Kleven.

I think this deal is equally about those spots as it is about Pinto.

I'd rather allocate more money to upgrade JBD than keep Joseph as the RW4 at almost $3M.

I agree. I would much rather they move Joseph's salary and look to upgrade on JBD. Maybe another depth forward.

 

[CorrectOpinion]

this one I can't understand on any level...

joseph was good for us last year.

what.