Player Discussion Mason McTavish

[Rasp]

 

[robbieboy3686]

Any chance we end up putting Big Mac on the wing while moving zegras back to center? Long term that is

 

[la patineuse]

Is McTavish like a hockey savant? He seems kind of dysfunctional in other aspects of everyday life, lol. Cam is probably right about McT needing a personal assistant.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

Eat cake

 

[The Duck Knight]

Any chance we end up putting Big Mac on the wing while moving zegras back to center? Long term that is

For me it would be a serious consideration. I'm not sure how much better McT really is defensively. Conversely I think Z is much better as a center from an offensive POV, especially moving the puck up the ice, outside of faceoffs.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Is McTavish like a hockey savant? He seems kind of dysfunctional in other aspects of everyday life, lol. Cam is probably right about McT needing a personal assistant.

Got his birthday present a day later!

 

[KelVarnsen]

I've seen some posts of Mctavish on some sort of variation of a third line. To me, that is crazy talk to put the third overall pick from his draft as a third liner. The Ducks need Mctavish to be a 30 goal / 70 point or more type of player. He needs the minutes and playing him with the likes of Silf or Lundstrom or whatever lower level prospect the Ducks promote seems nuts. I have much higher expectations for him and I think McTavish is a key component of the team as at minimum a second liner behind Leo if the Ducks are ever going to improve.

No way I want him anywhere near a third line over the long haul.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I've seen some posts of Mctavish on some sort of variation of a third line. To me, that is crazy talk to put the third overall pick from his draft as a third liner. The Ducks need Mctavish to be a 30 goal / 70 point or more type of player. He needs the minutes and playing him with the likes of Silf or Lundstrom or whatever lower level prospect the Ducks promote seems nuts. I have much higher expectations for him and I think McTavish is a key component of the team as at minimum a second liner behind Leo if the Ducks are ever going to improve.

No way I want him anywhere near a third line over the long haul.

Over the long haul sure but he's poor defensively and penalty prone and when he's in a slump (like now) I think it's good to stick him with a couple reliable plugs. It seems to be helping everyone for the moment.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Over the long haul sure but he's poor defensively and penalty prone and when he's in a slump (like now) I think it's good to stick him with a couple reliable plugs. It seems to be helping everyone for the moment.

I don't disagree with right now as he is obviously playing through some pain or other issues. I've just seen posts of him as a third liner and posters seems to indicate Mctavish is a third liner down the road for the long term.

If Mctavish devolves into a long term third liner who hovers around or below 40 points a season, he is a bust of a third overall pick in my eyes.

 

[robbieboy3686]

I don't disagree with right now as he is obviously playing through some pain or other issues. I've just seen posts of him as a third liner and posters seems to indicate Mctavish is a third liner down the road for the long term.

If Mctavish devolves into a long term third liner who hovers around or below 40 points a season, he is a bust of a third overall pick in my eyes.

He isn’t a 40pt guy now. He’s a 60-70 who will end up a ppg player imho, he elevated strome and Vatrano from 3rd liners to second liners for a good part of the season. He’s been hurt. You can tell, this break came at a great time for him

 

[KelVarnsen]

He isn’t a 40pt guy now. He’s a 60-70 who will end up a ppg player imho, he elevated strome and Vatrano from 3rd liners to second liners for a good part of the season. He’s been hurt. You can tell, this break came at a great time for him

That’s my point. I’m disagreeing with other posters who seem to be penciling him in as a future third liner behind Leo or Z Or with others who move him to the wing as a reaction to how he is currently playing while obviously, at least in my eyes, hurt.

This is why I used the word devolve into a third liner. That would be a travesty in my eyes.

 

[Boo Boo]

I like the idea of putting Mac with carlsson. They both have a great knack of finding each other and I think that would instantly elevate him as a goal scorer. Would be contingent on gauthier or zegras being able to handle the 2c position though.

 

[DavidBL]

Do wonder down the line if we don't run
Mac/Z-Terry
Killorn-Carlsson-Gauthier
I do wonder if we could get another top 6er and run those 3 scoring lines.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That’s my point. I’m disagreeing with other posters who seem to be penciling him in as a future third liner behind Leo or Z Or with others who move him to the wing as a reaction to how he is currently playing while obviously, at least in my eyes, hurt.

This is why I used the word devolve into a third liner. That would be a travesty in my eyes.

Eh. People have been hating on McTavish even before he became a Duck. Mac isn't flashy like Carlsson or Zegras and isn't the new toy like Cutter.

Mac hasn't been the same since his injury in late Nov/early December. He's playing through it like many other players have. Lundy was playing through it all last year. Between centers Carlsson, Groulx, Mac, and Carrick, Mac is probably our best center right now. That's not saying much b/c Carlsson's in a huge slump, Groulx adds no to very little offense, and then there is Carrick.

In the past four games, Lundy-Mac-Silf, or the Mac & Swedes line, has helped the Ducks directly earn points three out of the past four games. And the one game they didn't score, they weren't scored upon. Without the late game, 6v5 heroics, the Mac & Swedes had the Ducks lone goal in the previous 58:59 in regulation.

• Past four games, 3-0-1 (7 pts):
  • Lundy: 1g + 2a = 3 pts, and +3 rating
  • Mac: 0g + 3a = 3 pts, and +4 rating
  • Silf: 3g + 2a = 5 pts, and +5 rating

What's nice about Mac & Swedes is that Mac's mind has helped both Silf and Lundy find offense again, despite Mac not looking great. The Swedes are defensive minded players with some offense, which takes a huge load off of Mac since Mac isn't great defensively this year.

Who else has Mac made look better?

I've tracked Vatrano-Mac pair (as shown per GDTs) b/c they've been paired together more and Strome's moved around a bit.

Vatrano with Mac: 35 games, 21g + 10a = 31 pts
Vatrano without Mac: 15 games, 1g + 4a = 5 pts

Mac's got a great trait that he can make players around him play/produce better. But with Silf and Lundy, all three are benefiting making each other look better for different reasons.

I wouldn't worry about Mac long term. He took a big step forward this year in his production and faceoffs. Next year, I hope he improves his endurance and defense.

 

[JAHV]

I don't disagree with right now as he is obviously playing through some pain or other issues. I've just seen posts of him as a third liner and posters seems to indicate Mctavish is a third liner down the road for the long term.

If Mctavish devolves into a long term third liner who hovers around or below 40 points a season, he is a bust of a third overall pick in my eyes.

I posted something in the roster thread that had him on the third line, so perhaps this is directed at me (among others). I'll attempt to clarify my position, and perhaps others feel similarly.

Personally, I don't care about traditional line numbers. 1st line, 4th line, 85th line, I don't care. When I order lines, I generally place them in the accepted Best->Worst format because that's how people see them. But I see it as the exact opposite of you - if Mason McTavish is centering our third line, we're going to be a damn good hockey team.

I'm not expecting McTavish to "devolve." But I think we have two centers who are better than he is - Carlsson and Zegras. Zegras is debatable, but he's shown more in their brief careers. I also think that while McTavish hasn't impressed this year on the defensive end, he has more defensive skills than Zegras - he's a bigger body, he can win faceoffs, he seems more engaged in his own zone (even if he's not great at knowing where to be). So I think McTavish would work better in that environment.

None of this means I think he's going to turn into a 40-point player who only PKs and takes defensive zone draws. This means I think the Ducks are incredibly stacked down the middle and SOMEONE has to play center on a "third" line. I believe McTavish can settle into a 55 - 65 point player who also has some additional defensive duties and can absolutely dominate shifts against other teams' third lines. If that's a bust, I hope all our prospects bust.

If Carlsson becomes what we all think he can be and we're rolling Carlsson-Zegras-McTavish down the middle, even if Zegras and McTavish don't progress from where they currently are, that's a luxury that very few teams have. I see that as a great thing.

 

[lwvs84]

Close game, 1.5 minutes left... you can probably throw Gauthier-Carlsson-McTavish out there (when they are a little further in the NHL careers obviously). Up one, down one, or tied, that could be a tough line to handle at the end of the game.

And IF Rico and Vatrano are both moved, I wonder if they'll give Lundy a longer look with skill guys. If he can develop into a Rico type player, that would be massive.
Z-Carlsson-Gauthier
Lundy-Mac-Terry
Killorn-???-Strome (next season... Gaucher in the middle just to mess with the announcers?)

 

[KelVarnsen]

I posted something in the roster thread that had him on the third line, so perhaps this is directed at me (among others). I'll attempt to clarify my position, and perhaps others feel similarly.

Personally, I don't care about traditional line numbers. 1st line, 4th line, 85th line, I don't care. When I order lines, I generally place them in the accepted Best->Worst format because that's how people see them. But I see it as the exact opposite of you - if Mason McTavish is centering our third line, we're going to be a damn good hockey team.

I'm not expecting McTavish to "devolve." But I think we have two centers who are better than he is - Carlsson and Zegras. Zegras is debatable, but he's shown more in their brief careers. I also think that while McTavish hasn't impressed this year on the defensive end, he has more defensive skills than Zegras - he's a bigger body, he can win faceoffs, he seems more engaged in his own zone (even if he's not great at knowing where to be). So I think McTavish would work better in that environment.

None of this means I think he's going to turn into a 40-point player who only PKs and takes defensive zone draws. This means I think the Ducks are incredibly stacked down the middle and SOMEONE has to play center on a "third" line. I believe McTavish can settle into a 55 - 65 point player who also has some additional defensive duties and can absolutely dominate shifts against other teams' third lines. If that's a bust, I hope all our prospects bust.

If Carlsson becomes what we all think he can be and we're rolling Carlsson-Zegras-McTavish down the middle, even if Zegras and McTavish don't progress from where they currently are, that's a luxury that very few teams have. I see that as a great thing.

You're not the only one and I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position. While I disagree with Z being better than Mac as a center in the long term I can at least understand your position on it.

 

[JAHV]

You're not the only one and I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position. While I disagree with Z being better than Mac as a center in the long term I can at least understand your position on it.

I guess part of my point is that it doesn't matter if McTavish is better than Zegras long-term. He might still be centering the "third" line, and be dominant because of it. And it will make the Ducks all that much more formidable.

Personally, I expect them both to be great. I think Zegras has the potential to put up more points and McTavish has the potential to be better all around. Which one will ultimately provide more value? I don't know. But both are going to need to be good for this team to succeed. And both are going to get plenty of 5-on-5 time and power play time. So I'm not worried about where they shake out on a depth chart.

 

[Kalv]

I've seen some posts of Mctavish on some sort of variation of a third line. To me, that is crazy talk to put the third overall pick from his draft as a third liner. The Ducks need Mctavish to be a 30 goal / 70 point or more type of player. He needs the minutes and playing him with the likes of Silf or Lundstrom or whatever lower level prospect the Ducks promote seems nuts. I have much higher expectations for him and I think McTavish is a key component of the team as at minimum a second liner behind Leo if the Ducks are ever going to improve.

No way I want him anywhere near a third line over the long haul.

Check around 1:50 mark. Bob talks about Top9. Not fully sure about this context, but IIRC there was another time Bob reffered to him as middle-6 or smth. Or perhaps my mind is playing tricks with me.

I agree that he should get heavy minutes as you say, but also, he needs to work on some stuff. He isn't a clear cut 1st liner, IMO. He has some moments tho

 

[lwvs84]

IF the Ducks have the depth to roll 3 good lines and are successful at it, does it really matter who is 1C/2C/3C? Carlsson/Mac/Z will play PP (probably together), but if you can spread the wealth and have them go 100% every shift by giving each of those lines less minutes, it's a matchup nightmare. That will, however, depend on the ability to draft/develop/sign competent wingers. The only way it's a disservice to these guys is if you end up putting them with 4th line plugs/offensive black holes. I think eventually it'll be 2 really good top 2 lines and probably some guys that play certain roles on the bottom 6, but if a few of these prospect explode and become good complementary players, it's not a bad thing to be able to roll 3 strong lines that any one of them can go off on any given night.

 

[KelVarnsen]

I think that’s a logical concept @Iwvs84

My problem is I don’t think the Ducks will have 6 scoring wingers. Projecting out, there is Terry, Cutter, and who???

Killorn is older. Henrique will be gone. Frank may be gone. Stroke ain’t it. Maybe Regenda or Nest? Tracey, Perreault, or Pasta don’t seem like they will be impact players. I’m talking about scoring wingers to play with Mac or Z.

This is my issue with having Mac on a third line with 2 guys who aren’t great scorers. Seems like a waste to me. Play Mac with Z and Leo with Cutter. Put Terry on one of their lines and hope there is another scorer that appears via draft, trade, or FA.

As far as organizationaly, didn’t either Cronin or PV say Leason was a guy to build a third line around? Leason? He ain’t exactly a scorer so I’m not sure even the organization thinks we can build 3 actual scoring lines.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Check around 1:50 mark. Bob talks about Top9. Not fully sure about this context, but IIRC there was another time Bob reffered to him as middle-6 or smth. Or perhaps my mind is playing tricks with me.

I agree that he should get heavy minutes as you say, but also, he needs to work on some stuff. He isn't a clear cut 1st liner, IMO. He has some moments tho

At the time of that interview, Bob cites that Mac is different from all of other prospects - Mac's more of what Bob wants to become once again. With Z, Lundy, Steel, Groulx, and Getzlaf in tow going into the 2021-22 season, I guess Mac would be a top-9 forward/centerman. Mac didn't stay with the NHL club, but he was also playing wing, 3LW, iirc.

IMO, Mac is our 1C. Unlike Carlsson, who was gifted the 1C position and surrounded by the top talents, Mac was forced to start at 2LW before going to 4C and working his way up as a rookie. Mac began to look good enough to displace Z at 1C last year for about 10 games. But Z was also kinda displace b/c Rico was the one taking most of the faceoffs.

​

Ducks 2023-24​	as of Feb 1, 2024​		​	​
Player​	FOW​	FOL​	FO Totals​	FO%​
McTavish​	317​	268​	585​	54.2%​
Rico​	396​	346​	742​	53.4%​
Carrick​	270​	251​	521​	51.8%​
Lundy​	38​	38​	76​	50.0%​
Groulx​	81​	92​	173​	46.8%​
Strome​	87​	116​	203​	42.9%​
Zegras​	37​	55​	92​	40.2%​
Carlsson​	112​	215​	327​	34.3%​

Last year, Mac's rookie year, he went 42.3% on 725 faceoff attempts.

 

[JAHV]

I think that’s a logical concept @Iwvs84

My problem is I don’t think the Ducks will have 6 scoring wingers. Projecting out, there is Terry, Cutter, and who???

Killorn is older. Henrique will be gone. Frank may be gone. Stroke ain’t it. Maybe Regenda or Nest? Tracey, Perreault, or Pasta don’t seem like they will be impact players. I’m talking about scoring wingers to play with Mac or Z.

This is my issue with having Mac on a third line with 2 guys who aren’t great scorers. Seems like a waste to me. Play Mac with Z and Leo with Cutter. Put Terry on one of their lines and hope there is another scorer that appears via draft, trade, or FA.

As far as organizationaly, didn’t either Cronin or PV say Leason was a guy to build a third line around? Leason? He ain’t exactly a scorer so I’m not sure even the organization thinks we can build 3 actual scoring lines.

You can't just say "those guys ain't it" and have it be true. Strome is still a 40-50 point player. Killorn is putting up .56 points per game and he got off to a very slow start. Vatrano is still here for another season as far as we know. There are potential guys in the system, but there are also guys who can be acquired.

If you can find that quote about Leason, I'd love to see it. But even so, that stuff is nearly meaningless GM/coach speak. Of course they're going to talk up the guys they have in the locker room. That doesn't mean they'll be afraid to upgrade those guys if the opportunity arises.

 

[KelVarnsen]

You can't just say "those guys ain't it" and have it be true. Strome is still a 40-50 point player. Killorn is putting up .56 points per game and he got off to a very slow start. Vatrano is still here for another season as far as we know. There are potential guys in the system, but there are also guys who can be acquired.

If you can find that quote about Leason, I'd love to see it. But even so, that stuff is nearly meaningless GM/coach speak. Of course they're going to talk up the guys they have in the locker room. That doesn't mean they'll be afraid to upgrade those guys if the opportunity arises.

It was Cronin after the Dec 27th game against Vegas:

He didn’t say build but he said you can “anchor your third line around” which is pretty inaccurate based on Leasons skill set and play up to now.

Stome is exactly what a third liner is. Killorn will be on the second line with Mctavish IMO. And I do t really see any high scoring players other than maybe Regenda or maybe Nest.

So in my opinion, to make a three scoring line team, the Ducks would need some more actual NHL scorers. Until that happens(if it ever can), I prefer Mctavish playing more minutes with higher skilled players.

 

[JAHV]

It was Cronin after the Dec 27th game against Vegas:

View attachment 813832
He didn’t say build but he said you can “anchor your third line around” which is pretty inaccurate based on Leasons skill set and play up to now.

Stome is exactly what a third liner is. Killorn will be on the second line with Mctavish IMO. And I do t really see any high scoring players other than maybe Regenda or maybe Nest.

So in my opinion, to make a three scoring line team, the Ducks would need some more actual NHL scorers. Until that happens(if it ever can), I prefer Mctavish playing more minutes with higher skilled players.

If the Ducks' third line is McTavish putting up 60 points a year between Strome and Vatrano, who are each putting up 45 points, that's a third line that's better than every other third line in the league. I'll take it all day long.

But I fully understand that the Ducks may move Zegras to the wing and keep more of a traditional, checking third line. I would love to see them try the depth approach, but as your quote indicates, perhaps Cronin wants a defense-oriented third line.