Martin Brodeur vs Dominik Hasek, who would you draft

[Bear of Bad News]

The guy who was great for 20 years > The guy who was amazing for 8 years

Hasek was playing well in the top professional league available to him as a teenager.

I won't quibble with "20 years" for Brodeur (although he was slowing down at the end), but "8 years" for Hasek isn't even close.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

was he though?

Yes?

 

[Czechboy]

I get.the impression some.forget.that communism was a big reason why Hasek didn't come.to.NHL earlier.

 

[Mr Positive]

Hasek easily.


Longevity-related records, or peak-related records?

Longevity records, but it's just crazy that he was elite for all that time.

The thread is about being a GM. Brodeur is what every GM dreams of if they could pick a goalie. Stability is so critically important, especially at an elite level. I'd say also a lot of Brodeur's value was even not measured in that he was one of the best puck movers of all time. They changed NHL rules with that trapezoid because of him. That impact is underrated when it comes to a GM building the team and the flexibility it gives. Brodeur was a lot more than just a stable goalie. (Although if you are a GM you want stability in net)

 

[dr robbie]

I'm far from a Hasek fan, but I'd take him pretty easily over Brodeur.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Yes?

The numbers show Broduer was better longer and played in way more games and wasn't injured much.

Sounds to me like Broduer was better.

 

[blundluntman]

Hasek actually aged better than Brodeur, he was still an elite goalie up until age 41/42 vs Brodeur trailing off around 37. Longevity is still a bit of a concern, you do have to wonder if fatigue would've played a role if he'd began playing earlier. But I'd say it's more of a learning curve issue. Hasek entered the league at age 26 because he didn't even know he'd been drafted in 83 (perhaps bc of the iron curtain but I'm not sure). It took him 2 seasons of easing into the league as a backup but he never looked back once he became a starter. Past age 29, he had 10 seasons of elite play; 6 of those he was pretty much the best in the world. The real question is how early he would've adapted to the NHL if he actually came over around 20-21. I personally have a hard time believing he would take longer than 2 or 3 years to hit full stride so I'm willing to take that gamble. Even though he basically became a starter around 30, he only had around 6 fewer seasons than Brodeur as an elite/quality starter; and was a tier above him when their primes overlapped. I'm gonna go with Dom here but Brodeur is a great option as well

 

[Sasha Orlov]

The numbers show Broduer was better longer and played in way more games and wasn't injured much.

Sounds to me like Broduer was better.

I guess that’s why Hasek won 6 Vezinas and 2 Harts while both were in their prime right

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Both great goalies but I watched both and the NJ trap game helped Brodeur whereas Hasek would take ok teams and make them contenders.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I guess that’s why Hasek won 6 Vezinas and 2 Harts while both were in their prime right

Id still take the guy who played 20+ years near the top of the league. Especially if I am drafting with that knowledge like the scenario OP describes.


However, I see we will just agree to disagree this matter which is fine for me. I don't need to convince anyone in my choices

 

[Deadly Dogma]

The numbers show Broduer was better longer and played in way more games and wasn't injured much.

Sounds to me like Broduer was better.

Remember the teams they played for, NJ was stifling defensively and made a very good goalie look like a goat .

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Id still take the guy who played 20+ years near the top of the league. Especially if I am drafting with that knowledge like the scenario OP describes.


However, I see we will just agree to disagree this matter which is fine for me. I don't need to convince anyone in my choices

Fair enough

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Id still take the guy who played 20+ years near the top of the league. Especially if I am drafting with that knowledge like the scenario OP describes.


However, I see we will just agree to disagree this matter which is fine for me. I don't need to convince anyone in my choices

If you look at their international stats, you will see Marty did great but Hasek did better with a worse team

 

[Oilslick941611]

Fair enough

I mean its 6 vezinas 2 cups and 2 harts vs 4 vezinas, 3 cups and calder 3 hart nominations.

Its not like we are deciding between Hasek and Roloson and I chose Roloson.

These guys are likely the best goalies to play the game. You can win with both of these guys.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Im pretty sure nobody has ever considered Brodeur as a top 10 over all player ever. However I've seen Hasek on many people's lists here. I'm taking the Dominator easily.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Toss up to me. Hasek had a higher peak, I don't think anyone can deny that, but he was also a late bloomer in a sense, in that he couldn't come over to the NHL for 7 years after his draft due to political reasons. Without the same political restrictions, it is entirely possible that he becomes a star goalie far earlier than he did, which all but eliminates the Brodeur "longevity" claim. Hasek gets my vote.

 

[Rebels57]

was he though?

Gee, I don't know. He had more than DOUBLE the Goals Saved Above Average in 6 less seasons. So, yes. He was much better in fact. He just didn't play for the same calibre of teams Brodeur did. This is all common knowledge.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hasek very easily. As a devils fan, I think Marty tends to get pretty overrated. Dude played behind some of the best defensive teams of all time. He was a great goalie but not on Hasek's level.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Gee, I don't know. He had more than DOUBLE the Goals Saved Above Average in 6 less seasons. So, yes. He was much better in fact. He just didn't play for the same calibre of teams Brodeur did. This is all common knowledge.

It's important to note that many people (myself included) believe that the save percentage statistic does not appropriately reflect Brodeur's situation in New Jersey, including but not limited to conservative shot counting in his home arena, and Brodeur's ability to limit an opponent's primary method of entering the offensive zone.

And GSAA is a direct descendant of save percentage (weighted by time played).

It's also important to note that it's not appropriate to compare a goaltender to average, because then an average goalie has "zero value". Anyone reading these boards during playoff time will know that many fans would (rightly) kill just to get average goaltending.

The appropriate comparator is "replacement level", and in this aspect, Brodeur gets additional credit even when he's "only" average.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Brodeur for me. He gets underrated because he was a goalie for a defensive juggernaut.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Hasek is the better goalie but Brodeur gives you 20+ years of 70+ games played. He also constantly took less money so his team could afford better players, Having over 20 years of cost controlled elite goaltending is too good to pass up.

People get hung up on the Devils playing "the trap" and played with 2 HoF defensemen but they tend to forget that Marty won almost all of his individual awards after Stevens, Niedermayer and Daneyko had retired or moved on.

But this place would likely vote Curtis Joseph over Brodeur so he has no chance of beating Dom.

 

[Michael Farkas]

There's a cone that the puck has to travel through to enter the net.

It's actually a big rectangle. Math much?


(I'm sorry, I have nothing to contribute...I was just seeing if Brodeur was getting slaughtered over buzzwords and save pct noise. I'm saving my voice for the goalie project, so I'm taking this low-hanging fruit to commit a self-burn of geometric proportions. Good day.)

 

[Bear of Bad News]

It's actually a big rectangle. Math much?

This is why we need to change the shape of the net, so that I'm retroactively correct.

(Technically it's a pyramid - or almost a pyramid (with the puck or the eyes at the apex) unless the puck is dead center left-to-right on the ice and the apex is two feet off the ice)

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I feel like you could extract a lot of value by drafting Brodeur, trading for Hasek on the cheap while he's with Chicago and then trading Brodeur for a ransom

 

[Caps8112]

Hasek is the better goalie but Brodeur gives you 20+ years of 70+ games played. He also constantly took less money so his team could afford better players, Having over 20 years of cost controlled elite goaltending is too good to pass up.

People get hung up on the Devils playing "the trap" and played with 2 HoF defensemen but they tend to forget that Marty won almost all of his individual awards after Stevens, Niedermayer and Daneyko had retired or moved on.

But this place would likely vote Curtis Joseph over Brodeur so he has no chance of beating Dom.

view them as more comparable. Hasek was another level. You could have thrown any of each seasons goalies from 4 thru 12 on the devils during brodeurs careers and gotten very similar results.