Player Discussion Marner

[Antropovsky]

Since people over in the nylander thread think I'm a marner fanboy let me just say that Marner is playing horrific for a 11M right now as well

Matthewd horrific for a 13.25M player

if marner has only ppg season some how he would need to win the conn smythe to be worth bringing back next year.

Right now 34, 16, and 88, are competing to see who can disapoint the most.

Tavares has passed that group and is a perpetual disapointment

Praying for a dominant stretch of games for these 3 the enxt 4-5 games to get us to a good record and to see them play and produce like they have in the past and are expected to.

Marners style of hockey is infuriating when not working. Too perimeter, too focused on playing near the point and forcing passes. He needs to work this out and become more dynamic and diverse offensive threat for him to succeed in the playoffs.

I need 100 pts from 16 and 88

And 110 from 34

For them to be worth close to their deals

If you're Matthews and your teammate Marner just wants to sauce passes from the perimeter and not create screens, not good to the net, not be a shooting threat, not physically battle for a puck, then your gonna have a hard time producing offense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If winning is the goal there are times throughout the playoffs when you must sacrifice your body. He ( they) haven’t shown they’re willing to do that. If the leaders won’t , then the rest won’t either.

I get what you mean and I mostly agree. Just the idea of someone like Marner "sacrifing their body" is a bit scary.

Mostly I just want everyone engaged and playing their butts off. And that has been lacking at times, especially in game 7's.

 

[ACC1224]

Since people over in the nylander thread think I'm a marner fanboy let me just say that Marner is playing horrific for a 11M right now as well

Matthewd horrific for a 13.25M player

if marner has only ppg season some how he would need to win the conn smythe to be worth bringing back next year.

Right now 34, 16, and 88, are competing to see who can disapoint the most.

Tavares has passed that group and is a perpetual disapointment

Praying for a dominant stretch of games for these 3 the enxt 4-5 games to get us to a good record and to see them play and produce like they have in the past and are expected to.

Marners style of hockey is infuriating when not working. Too perimeter, too focused on playing near the point and forcing passes. He needs to work this out and become more dynamic and diverse offensive threat for him to succeed in the playoffs.

I need 100 pts from 16 and 88

And 110 from 34

For them to be worth close to their deals

Marner pretty much paces out 100 points every season so he's a pass by your criteria?

I know you know this but there is more to the game than just points.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthews: 1st in the league in shots, 1st in missed shots, 2nd in ixG (barely behind somebody with 2 more games), 1st in iSCF, 1st in iHDCF, etc.
This place: That darn playmaker on his line must be limiting his chances!

 

[hamzarocks]

Marner pretty much paces out 100 points every season so he's a pass by your criteria?

I know you know this but there is more to the game than just points.

points matter the most especially at these current deals

WE talk about being good defensively year in and year out

Matthews and Marner have top 3 selke finishes and still come playoffs the team and they themselves struggle with putting pts and getting offense.

This team should be ovepowering other teams with the allegedly elite/uncompetable talent they have in the core 4/5 guys

100 pts you are right is too low. He needs to be at 110+. Him and Nylander should be on the 1st and 2nd NHL teams as RW to be able to justify 11.5M and I am assuming 12.5M (marners potential ask)

Marners defense did him nothing when he played another super star player in pastrnak who managed to get two big goals when marner was on the ice/at fault.

To beat teams we will need huge offensive power from the stars + good defensive system (not indovudally foced defensive players) which promotes physicality and sustained pressure offense + goaltending

Marner/Matthews/Barkov (another guy whose defense league wide is praised to lengths) all they want, the elite and best players will get their chances and pts across the EVS/5v5/PP as we saw with Mcdavid vs Barkov/panthers in the finals

Our core needs to be the guys that are pushing and out producing other teams stars for us to have a great run

 

[Antropovsky]

Honestly, you could call it working hard without a purpose.

Agreed, his numbers prove it. His points are more a reflection of heavy minutes and playing with skilled linemates than his own ability.

Marner has 1 goal, 7 points in 7 games, and is a -2.

• 3 assists are on the PP.
• 2 assists are phantom (one from a clearing attempt, the other a dump-in).
• 1 assist was a shot attempt creating rebound which came 5v5 while playing on a $36 million line.

No matter what the Marner fans are trying to sell, it's not looking good.

 

[hamzarocks]

If you're Matthews and your teammate Marner just wants to sauce passes from the perimeter and not create screens, not good to the net, not be a shooting threat, not physically battle for a puck, then your gonna have a hard time producing offense.

Matthews makes way too much for these excuses

He should be dropping 120 pts now.

Kaprizov plays with zuccerllo (similar style but worse player than marner) and worse offensive teammates overall than Matthews but has been incredible for 2 of past 3 years and is great to start this year

Mcdavid was producing with Maroon, Lucic, etc on the wing.

Matthews/Marner/Nylander have no reason not to be 3 of the top 7 pt producers in the league this year.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Matthews: 1st in the league in shots, 1st in missed shots, 2nd in ixG (barely behind somebody with 2 more games), 1st in iSCF, 1st in iHDCF, etc.
This place: That darn playmaker on his line must be limiting his chances!

I don't know I just don't like Marner or his weak game

 

[Nineteen67]

I get what you mean and I mostly agree. Just the idea of someone like Marner "sacrifing their body" is a bit scary.

Mostly I just want everyone engaged and playing their butts off. And that has been lacking at times, especially in game 7's.

I don’t expect them to change.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t expect them to change.

Wise man.

 

[IPS]

Are we really getting closer to the goal of winning the cup by signing Marner to $12.5M - $13M?

Yeah yeah yeah we can talk shit all we like about how Nylander being paid his money ain't it either but why the hell would you go and make the same mistake twice?

Overpaying 2 soft wingers instead of 1 is supposed to accomplish what now?

Agreed, his numbers prove it. His points are more a reflection of heavy minutes and playing with skilled linemates than his own ability.

Marner has 1 goal, 7 points in 7 games, and is a -2.

• 3 assists are on the PP.
• 2 assists are phantom (one from a clearing attempt, the other a dump-in).
• 1 assist was a shot attempt creating rebound which came 5v5 while playing on a $36 million line.

No matter what the Marner fans are trying to sell, it's not looking good.

I'm not really much for the "empty calorie points" argument but his points so far this year have definitely been VERY "empty calorie".

 

[IPS]

Matthews makes way too much for these excuses

He should be dropping 120 pts now.

Kaprizov plays with zuccerllo (similar style but worse player than marner) and worse offensive teammates overall than Matthews but has been incredible for 2 of past 3 years and is great to start this year

Mcdavid was producing with Maroon, Lucic, etc on the wing.

Matthews/Marner/Nylander have no reason not to be 3 of the top 7 pt producers in the league this year.

Yeah but Matthews has atleast done it, and has seperated himself with goalscoring by a HUGE margin.

What about Marner? Just the greatest 99 point player in history or what's the deal? Utterly zero justification he should be anywhere near the highest paid players in the league, he's not that guy.

The Marner PR crew was absolutely adament how his underlying numbers made him much better than Rantanen back in 2019 when those guys were signing their post ELC contracts. Has it worked that way at all? Has Marner seperated himself at all from Rantanen? Not even f***ing close, if anything it's been Rantanen improving. Don't even have to go into postseason success, Rantanen is a whole different caliber of player than Marner in that regard.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yeah but Matthews has atleast done it, and has seperated himself with goalscoring by a HUGE margin.

What about Marner? Just the greatest 99 point player in history or what's the deal? Utterly zero justification he should be anywhere near the highest paid players in the league, he's not that guy.

The Marner PR crew was absolutely adament how his underlying numbers made him much better than Rantanen back in 2019 when those guys were signing their post ELC contracts. Has it worked that way at all? Has Marner seperated himself at all from Rantanen? Not even f***ing close, if anything it's been Rantanen improving. Don't even have to go into postseason success, Rantanen is a whole different caliber of player than Marner in that regard.

Unfortunately yes marner has gotten left behind other wingers he was compared to previously like Panarin, Kaprizov, Rantanen, Kuch, Tkachuk, Pasta the past 2 years

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah but Matthews has atleast done it, and has seperated himself with goalscoring by a HUGE margin.

What about Marner? Just the greatest 99 point player in history or what's the deal? Utterly zero justification he should be anywhere near the highest paid players in the league, he's not that guy.

The Marner PR crew was absolutely adament how his underlying numbers made him much better than Rantanen back in 2019 when those guys were signing their post ELC contracts. Has it worked that way at all? Has Marner seperated himself at all from Rantanen? Not even f***ing close, if anything it's been Rantanen improving. Don't even have to go into postseason success, Rantanen is a whole different caliber of player than Marner in that regard.

I agree with this completely. I mean there's a guy here who can show you a bunch of 'advanced' stats to justify why Marner got his contract, and another guy who can show you a bunch of 'advanced' stats to show you why he deserves another big contract but I watch the guy play, and I just don't see it. Regular season, sure he's on the fringes of being a top 5 winger, but he's not getting any better, there are always young guys coming into the league so a few years from now his ranking will likely be lower. Main thing is playoffs though, he has a big game here and there but all too often he's not even noticeable out there and for his career he's a 70 point player in the playoffs, his last two series he was mediocre at best so in the playoffs, he hasn't been even close to worth his cap hit. If the NHL was a real world job, he's be in line for a pay cut, no doubt about it.

Really the only argument that he should get another huge contract is "playoffs don't matter" when negotiating contracts. That's always been an exceedingly stupid concept for me personally because playoffs matter a lot so I say either take a pay cut or play somewhere else. Unless of course he morphs into a playoff beast next spring, but that doesn't seem likely and in any case until it happens, I wouldn't commit to him.

 

[francis246]

I agree with this completely. I mean there's a guy here who can show you a bunch of 'advanced' stats to justify why Marner got his contract, and another guy who can show you a bunch of 'advanced' stats to show you why he deserves another big contract but I watch the guy play, and I just don't see it. Regular season, sure he's on the fringes of being a top 5 winger, but he's not getting any better, there are always young guys coming into the league so a few years from now his ranking will likely be lower. Main thing is playoffs though, he has a big game here and there but all too often he's not even noticeable out there and for his career he's a 70 point player in the playoffs, his last two series he was mediocre at best so in the playoffs, he hasn't been even close to worth his cap hit. If the NHL was a real world job, he's be in line for a pay cut, no doubt about it.

Really the only argument that he should get another huge contract is "playoffs don't matter" when negotiating contracts. That's always been an exceedingly stupid concept for me personally because playoffs matter a lot so I say either take a pay cut or play somewhere else. Unless of course he morphs into a playoff beast next spring, but that doesn't seem likely and in any case until it happens, I wouldn't commit to him.

I don’t see the big contract coming like everyone is predicting tbh. I think IF and it’s a big IF Marner is a leaf it’ll be under 12. I think it will be between 11.5 and 11.93. He does not deserve a million more than Nylander. I think he gets a matching 11.5 contract personally on an 8 year deal, hopefully similar trade protection to Rantanen and Pastrnaks deals. Full NMC for first 5 years, modified last 3.

If he goes to UFA he might get a big 12.5 ticket. But I don’t believe he’s getting that and remaining a leaf and I feel like Marner will opt to take it and stay. It feels like they’ve been building up that redemption arch the whole summer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t see the big contract coming like everyone is predicting tbh. I think IF and it’s a big IF Marner is a leaf it’ll be under 12. I think it will be between 11.5 and 11.93. He does not deserve a million more than Nylander. I think he gets a matching 11.5 contract personally on an 8 year deal, hopefully similar trade protection to Rantanen and Pastrnaks deals. Full NMC for first 5 years, modified last 3.

If he goes to UFA he might get a big 12.5 ticket. But I don’t believe he’s getting that and remaining a leaf and I feel like Marner will opt to take it and stay. It feels like they’ve been building up that redemption arch the whole summer.

100-1 against this happening. Maybe more than that, there's just no way.

 

[Sypher04]

I don’t see the big contract coming like everyone is predicting tbh. I think IF and it’s a big IF Marner is a leaf it’ll be under 12. I think it will be between 11.5 and 11.93. He does not deserve a million more than Nylander. I think he gets a matching 11.5 contract personally on an 8 year deal, hopefully similar trade protection to Rantanen and Pastrnaks deals. Full NMC for first 5 years, modified last 3.

If he goes to UFA he might get a big 12.5 ticket. But I don’t believe he’s getting that and remaining a leaf and I feel like Marner will opt to take it and stay. It feels like they’ve been building up that redemption arch the whole summer.

I don’t think there’s any way you get Marner to take less than full NMC in all years if you didn’t expect Nylander to.

Also Marner taking 11.5M is like 700k less than the equivalent to Nylander’s deal, so might be a hard sell, but it’s at least possible if Mitch wants to buy some good will

 

[francis246]

100-1 against this happening. Maybe more than that, there's just no way.

I think we will be surprised. Again im still unsure of the direction they will go. But hypothetical, let’s say they surprise and get him to agree to a deal under 12 long term. Are we upset, okay, happy? Or still depends on playoffs?

For me I think you keep him because you can move him later. We’ve seen guys with NMC’s move before. I just think the assets you get back are better that way. I’m not loving this years UFA crop, it’s very top heavy.

 

[francis246]

I don’t think there’s any way you get Marner to take less than full NMC in all years if you didn’t expect Nylander to.

Also Marner taking 11.5M is like 700k less than the equivalent to Nylander’s deal, so might be a hard sell, but it’s at least possible if Mitch wants to buy some good will

I do think at some point they have to ask him, is being a maple leaf more important to you or being the highest paid winger. That’s the hard thing Marner will have to wrestle with. How bad do you really want to be here? I could honestly see 11.93, 8 year deal full NMC. Puts him ahead of Willie and Pasta

 

[Sypher04]

I do think at some point they have to ask him, is being a maple leaf more important to you or being the highest paid winger. That’s the hard thing Marner will have to wrestle with. How bad do you really want to be here? I could honestly see 11.93, 8 year deal full NMC. Puts him ahead of Willie and Pasta

Seems plausible

 

[Menzinger]

I do think at some point they have to ask him, is being a maple leaf more important to you or being the highest paid winger. That’s the hard thing Marner will have to wrestle with. How bad do you really want to be here? I could honestly see 11.93, 8 year deal full NMC. Puts him ahead of Willie and Pasta

I think it's going to have to fall into the 11.75-12.75 mil over 8 years for management (and player's representative) to sell it to the local market.

The fanbase is only going to be tolerant of Matthews doing stuff that's more out of left field in terms of contact term/structure and survive the PR battle.

12.6 essentially gives him the Matthews raise

 

[francis246]

I think it's going to have to fall into the 11.75-12.75 mil over 8 years for management (and player's representative) to sell it to the local market.

The fanbase is only going to be tolerant of Matthews doing stuff that's more out of left field in terms of contact term/structure and survive the PR battle.

12.6 essentially gives him the Matthews raise

Agreed, it has felt like they are setting up Marner to buy some good will or setting up for a deal that’s not crazy. It’ll be interesting to see what happens and when it does happen (if at all)

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think we will be surprised. Again im still unsure of the direction they will go. But hypothetical, let’s say they surprise and get him to agree to a deal under 12 long term. Are we upset, okay, happy? Or still depends on playoffs?

For me I think you keep him because you can move him later. We’ve seen guys with NMC’s move before. I just think the assets you get back are better that way. I’m not loving this years UFA crop, it’s very top heavy.

He's gonna demand full NMC, that's the part of your post that I say isn't going to happen.

Re. guys with NMC's moving, I think we've discussed this before, I don't it's as much of a non-issue as you think it is, we disagree and that's fine.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I don’t see the big contract coming like everyone is predicting tbh. I think IF and it’s a big IF Marner is a leaf it’ll be under 12. I think it will be between 11.5 and 11.93. He does not deserve a million more than Nylander. I think he gets a matching 11.5 contract personally on an 8 year deal, hopefully similar trade protection to Rantanen and Pastrnaks deals. Full NMC for first 5 years, modified last 3.

If he goes to UFA he might get a big 12.5 ticket. But I don’t believe he’s getting that and remaining a leaf and I feel like Marner will opt to take it and stay. It feels like they’ve been building up that redemption arch the whole summer.

lol. Dude, you're delusional. Marner is lucky to get $8m on a real team.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If only he played like the other two on the ice and didn't float... I don't think it takes balls to talk.

If he played like them in that series, Boston would have won in 6.