Player Discussion Marner

[Dekes For Days]

Watch exemple pittsburgh when they sign crosby at 8,7M...No body can asking more to their gm than crosby money

Pittsburgh literally signed somebody for more than Crosby within the year. You're way off on this stuff.

 

[notbias]

MM was never in the same level as AM.

Everyone in the hockey World knows AM's contact after ELC will be between Eichel and McD, just didn't expect it to be 5 years instead of 8years like the other two.

Despite MM getting more points than AM during their ELC, MM was never consider at the same level as AM, bc if he was, he won't be signing for 10.893 and will either be the same or just a bit lower than AM.

Your MM obsession have gone to next level, I am actually worry about you if MM leaves the Leafs in a few months when he can sign a much better deal than the Leafs can offer.

His contract was slightly less... thanks for helping me with the argument.

With this logic, I'm worried about how some of you are in the real world.

He’s not cause mcdavid can score 70 if he puts his mind to it I’m sure

I forgot how good McDavid was... it's only himself holding him back.

It's crazy that McDavid chooses not to break Gretzky's records, the amount of respect he has for him must be too great.

Letting Florida win the cup last year was nice too.

Like I said, IMO you're in the small minority here. Start a poll if you don't believe me.

Also, these numbers don't mean anything, you use stats the same way a drunken man uses lampposts.

Stats are the worst.

I wish I had used my feelings and argued only about my opinion so that no one could question me.

Apologies if numbers offend you or some of these are difficult to comprehend.

Stanley Cup final vs First Round

McDavid was the best loser last year, agreed.

I think he is an amazing player and top 5 all-time.

You made a good argument here when discussing how important goals are to ranking players though, good job.

 

[francis246]

Like I said, IMO you're in the small minority here. Start a poll if you don't believe me.

Also, these numbers don't mean anything, you use stats the same way a drunken man uses lampposts.

This is a lot of noise that has nothing to do with the fact that are wrong about the Leafs having no leverage. As long as you don't understand the fundamental differences between negotiating with RFA's and UFA's, you will keep going down the wrong path. And JT wasn't just any UFA, because of how rarely players of that ilk come on the market, the demand for him was off the charts. Paying Marner as if those two were peers was pure insanity.

It also seems like almost every other word of your post is misspelt, not to mention the grammatical errors. Were you high when you posted this?


Yup. Almost as crazy as comparing UFA's to RFA's.

I would agree with all this. However ... the fact that Matthews produced better with Domi than with Marner last season over a sample size that wasn't exactly small suggests that Marner isn't exactly integral to his linemates production. Sure guys like JT and Matthews benefit from playing with Marner, but Marner has obviously benefitted from playing with them as well and considering the Domi experiment last season, it looks like Marner perhaps benefits more than anyone else.

For sure it’s a relationship. You need someone to put the puck in the net to grab an assist. I just want Marner to shoot more. He has a good shot. He could score 30 in his sleep if he would shoot

 

[arso40]

His contract was slightly less... thanks for helping me with the argument.

With this logic, I'm worried about how some of you are in the real world.



I forgot how good McDavid was... it's only himself holding him back.

It's crazy that McDavid chooses not to break Gretzky's records, the amount of respect he has for him must be too great.

Letting Florida win the cup last year was nice too.



Stats are the worst.

I wish I had used my feelings and argued only about my opinion so that no one could question me.

Apologies if numbers offend you or some of these are difficult to comprehend.



McDavid was the best loser last year, agreed.

I think he is an amazing player and top 5 all-time.

You made a good argument here when discussing how important goals are to ranking players though, good job.

Wouldn’t say all of that but he definitely could score 70 if that was his goal but it isn’t though I’m sure he’s only trying to win the cup at this point joker

 

[Gary Nylund]

Stats are the worst.

I wish I had used my feelings and argued only about my opinion so that no one could question me.

Apologies if numbers offend you or some of these are difficult to comprehend.

You either don't understand what I said, or are pretending not to. There's nothing wrong with numbers, but in this case what you've done with them is a classic case of GIGO.

For sure it’s a relationship. You need someone to put the puck in the net to grab an assist. I just want Marner to shoot more. He has a good shot. He could score 30 in his sleep if he would shoot

I don't care about point totals, I just want him to not go AWOL after game 86. Goals, assists, whatever, I just would like to see him contribute some offence in the biggest games of the year.

 

[ACC1224]

For sure it’s a relationship. You need someone to put the puck in the net to grab an assist. I just want Marner to shoot more. He has a good shot. He could score 30 in his sleep if he would shoot

He's been a pass first, unselfish player his whole life. It's not going to change now.
Part of the reason he's such a popular teammate.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I forgot how good McDavid was... it's only himself holding him back.

It's crazy that McDavid chooses not to break Gretzky's records, the amount of respect he has for him must be too great.

Letting Florida win the cup last year was nice too.

Also crazy how Gretzky choose to top 90 goals only once in his career and often let other teams win the cup eh?

I get that you're trying to be clever but it's not working. Holy smokes are you ever posting a lot of nonsense today.

 

[arso40]

He's been a pass first, unselfish player his whole life. It's not going to change now.
Part of the reason he's such a popular teammate.

Yeah for sure but it’s predictable hoccey in a bad way hope him and Domi get a little more selfish so we can be more deceptive on the ice

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's been a pass first, unselfish player his whole life. It's not going to change now.
Part of the reason he's such a popular teammate.

See this is just dumb. You should do what helps the team, not your teammates and sometimes being a bit "selfish" is the way to go. This selfish/unselfish stuff is just crap TBH, you shouldn't be thinking about goals, assists or WE else, just win!

 

[Legion34]

They didn't produce identically through their ELCs. You're still having trouble with that part.

Why don't you show examples of players that did that much better in every game state and still got paid the same?

They produced at a shockingly similar level.

You are the one claiming against all other comparables/media/statistical projections/articles that this was a fair contract.
You have based this on your understanding of “history” but can’t provide any historical precedents.

marner producing at all other levels of your parsed out made up stats did not lead to more goals, and led to almost exactly the same pace (1pt) over 3 seasons.
All these little micro stats didn’t lead to more goals or production in reality

That’s as relevant as claiming a 40 goal scorer should get more than another 40 goal scorer because he scores on the road or a Wednesday.

There is no precedent that these micro stats have any historical precedent of influencing contract.


It’s your claim they do. Prove it with your historical analysis

 

[notbias]

Wouldn’t say all of that but he definitely could score 70 if that was his goal but it isn’t though I’m sure he’s only trying to win the cup at this point joker

He's failing at that, so what makes you think he can score 70 if he wants to?

 

[notDatsyuk]

It also seems like almost every other word of your post is misspelt, not to mention the grammatical errors. Were you high when you posted this?

I think that's unfair. All his posts are similar, and I think a more reasonable assumption is that English is not his primary language.

 

[arso40]

He's failing at that, so what makes you think he can score 70 if he wants to?

What’s his career high ??

 

[notbias]

Also crazy how Gretzky choose to top 90 goals only once in his career and often let other teams win the cup eh?

I get that you're trying to be clever but it's not working. Holy smokes are you ever posting a lot of nonsense today.

What are you going on about?

You either don't understand what I said, or are pretending not to. There's nothing wrong with numbers, but in this case what you've done with them is a classic case of GIGO.

It is funny to post about garbage in garbage out, then post this.

You haven't posted anything of substance (potentially ever).

Your argument to me showing numbers of a season where Marner was clearly better than Matthews is to just ignore the numbers.

There is a quote by Mark Twain about arguing with certain people, I may just stop going back and forth here since you are proving that quote to be true.

 

[notbias]

What’s his career high ??

64, he then followed it up by only scoring 32, did he stop trying?

His top 3 goal scoring seasons are 64, 44, and 41, and you want me to believe that the 64 goal season was him just trying a little more and if he tried just a little harder he's hit 70?

McDavid is the best player in the league, there is no reason to pretend he is better than he is.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What are you going on about?



It is funny to post about garbage in garbage out, then post this.

You haven't posted anything of substance (potentially ever).

Your argument to me showing numbers of a season where Marner was clearly better than Matthews is to just ignore the numbers.

There is a quote by Mark Twain about arguing with certain people, I may just stop going back and forth here since you are proving that quote to be true.

What I said about Gretzky should be self-explanatory considering how non-sensical your post was that I was responding to. You're either being purposefully obtuse, or you're just having a really bad day.

Re. numbers - I posted this last night, which part are you having trouble with?

I suppose that since "same level" is open to interpretation, there is no way to prove or disprove this with empirical evidence. That said, I think you're way off, not even close, and very few people would agree with you on this one.

Your numbers don't "prove" anything, several people have already pointed out flaws in your argument and the fact that you're still going on about this only shows what I already knew to be true - discussing "numbers" with you is a waste of time because you use numbers the same way a drunk uses lampposts. If you don't think you're in a small minority here then go ahead and start a poll and we'll see who's right.

 

[notbias]

What I said about Gretzky should be self-explanatory considering how non-sensical your post was that I was responding to. You're either being purposefully obtuse, or you're just having a really bad day.

Re. numbers - I posted this last night, which part are you having trouble with?

I suppose that since "same level" is open to interpretation, there is no way to prove or disprove this with empirical evidence. That said, I think you're way off, not even close, and very few people would agree with you on this one.

Your numbers don't "prove" anything, several people have already pointed out flaws in your argument and the fact that you're still going on about this only shows what I already knew to be true - discussing "numbers" with you is a waste of time because you use numbers the same way a drunk uses lampposts. If you don't think you're in a small minority here then go ahead and start a poll and we'll see who's right.

Ah yes, the board that hates Marner will be very logical here.

The fact you disagree is proof enough to me that they are close.

 

[thewave]

Ah yes, the board that hates Marner will be very logical here.

The fact you disagree is proof enough to me that they are close.

The world is against my boy Mitchy Marner narrative drive is back at it. Nobody here hates Mitch Marner. They dont like the kind of performance we get out of him in the playoffs for the money.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ah yes, the board that hates Marner will be very logical here.

The fact you disagree is proof enough to me that they are close.

And the fact that you're playing the 100% worthless "hate card" is proof enough for me that you got nuthin'.

The world is against my boy Mitchy Marner narrative drive is back at it. Nobody here hates Mitch Marner. They dont like the kind of performance we get out of him in the playoffs for the money.

Exactly.

 

[notbias]

The world is against my boy Mitchy Marner narrative drive is back at it. Nobody here hates Mitch Marner. They dont like the kind of performance we get out of him in the playoffs for the money.

Exactly, no personal attacks against him on this board, ever.

Always about his play, nothing more.

And the fact that you're playing the 100% worthless "hate card" is proof enough for me that you got nuthin'.

Exactly.

You're clueless if you think this board doesn't hate him.

You have posted 20 posts about your opinion and how facts are irrelevant, now you are telling others that they have nothing?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Exactly, no personal attacks against him on this board, ever.

Always about his play, nothing more.

You're clueless if you think this board doesn't hate him.

You have posted 20 posts about your opinion and how facts are irrelevant, now you are telling others that they have nothing?

LOL what a garbage post this is. Just keep making stuff up, build those strawmen and knock them down. Just one example of what a heaping pile of garbage your post is - you say this board hates him. But you're on this board, so you're saying you are part of the crowd that hates him. Is that true, do you hate Marner?

I've never hated any hockey player ever, especially not the ones that play for my team. You can keep parroting this fantasy if it makes you feel better, just understand that doing so makes you seem rather immature.

 

[thusk]

Pittsburgh literally signed somebody for more than Crosby within the year. You're way off on this stuff.

Like I said, IMO you're in the small minority here. Start a poll if you don't believe me.

Also, these numbers don't mean anything, you use stats the same way a drunken man uses lampposts.

This is a lot of noise that has nothing to do with the fact that are wrong about the Leafs having no leverage. As long as you don't understand the fundamental differences between negotiating with RFA's and UFA's, you will keep going down the wrong path. And JT wasn't just any UFA, because of how rarely players of that ilk come on the market, the demand for him was off the charts. Paying Marner as if those two were peers was pure insanity.

It also seems like almost every other word of your post is misspelt, not to mention the grammatical errors. Were you high when you posted this?


Yup. Almost as crazy as comparing UFA's to RFA's.

I would agree with all this. However ... the fact that Matthews produced better with Domi than with Marner last season over a sample size that wasn't exactly small suggests that Marner isn't exactly integral to his linemates production. Sure guys like JT and Matthews benefit from playing with Marner, but Marner has obviously benefitted from playing with them as well and considering the Domi experiment last season, it looks like Marner perhaps benefits more than anyone else.

What are the real leverage team had with superstar, sit them until deadline to sign, taking a risk that can hurt you and maybe making you make you miss the playoff... They did with Nylander and did they really worked?!?!

The only leverage was to compare with player in the team...

 

[egd27]

Haven't popped into a Marner thread for a while.

Have we decided if he is an asset or liability to the Leafs yet ?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Haven't popped into a Marner thread for a while.

Have we decided if he is an asset or liability to the Leafs yet ?

Miller Light Tastes Great !

 

[Antropovsky]

How much extra are goals worth? I just want to know how much better Matthews is than McDavid.

There was a study that indicated quality of linemates was a big determining factor to players. Here are Marner and Matthews linemates from 2019.

2019 Marner Teammates:
28 year old Tavares
27 Year old Hyman

2019 Matthews Teammates:
In this order:
40 year old Marleau
23 year old Kapanen,
23 year old Nylander
25 year old Johnsson

Surprisingly, depite his lower end linemates. Just looking at gamelogs, Matthews was often drawing opposing teams best defenders in 2019. But not always. So this lijely helped both Marner and Matthews lines.

So... Marner was essentially playing on a top line but getting away from the oppositions best D, likely more than most top lines. Compare that to say Barzal, who had a defensive minded coach, poorer qualuty of linemates and stiffer competition. Same goes to Aho.

In hockey, the quality of a player's linemates can have a greater impact on a player's performance than the quality of their opponents. However, the impact of linemates can be complex and may vary depending on the player.

Here are some things to consider when evaluating the quality of a player's linemates:

Separation of player performance
It can be difficult to separate the performance of one player from another on a team. For example, if two players play together almost all the time, it can be hard to determine if one player would be better off with a different linemate.

Consistency of matchups
It's difficult for a coach to consistently match up their players against ideal opponents throughout a season.

Mix of players
A good mix of players playing together is important for regression analysis to work.