Marner Predictions - What Happens Now

[francis246]

Do you seek out the dumbest takes on the situation you can find or are they just delivered daily to your inbox?

Mess didn’t get hired by the athletic so we all have to suffer and read the nonsense on hf boards

 

[notdoneyet]

We can blame the core four or marner for our playoff failures but the reality is we didn’t have a goalie that could steal a game when needed
Reimer choke under pressure
Andersen see above
Campbell couldn’t make the big save when needed
Samsanov see above
Woll couldn’t stay healthy when we needed him

Compare these goalies to vasy price bob Swayman
That my friends is exactly why we haven’t got out of the first round

 

[Nineteen67]

Sign and Trade is best for the Leafs, not Marner.

Marner knows the Leafs have moved on and picked Nylander over him.


That is definitely made up.

But it’s effectively true. He definitely wants “too much”.

Tre isn’t negotiating. He knows Marner is going to free agency and he picked Nylander anyways.

It would be best for both if that was the decision.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

We can blame the core four or marner for our playoff failures but the reality is we didn’t have a goalie that could steal a game when needed
Reimer choke under pressure
Andersen see above
Campbell couldn’t make the big save when needed
Samsanov see above
Woll couldn’t stay healthy when we needed him

Compare these goalies to vasy price bob Swayman
That my friends is exactly why we haven’t got out of the first round

Surely, there's a more convenient scapegoat.

 

[Nineteen67]

We can blame the core four or marner for our playoff failures but the reality is we didn’t have a goalie that could steal a game when needed
Reimer choke under pressure
Andersen see above
Campbell couldn’t make the big save when needed
Samsanov see above
Woll couldn’t stay healthy when we needed him

Compare these goalies to vasy price bob Swayman
That my friends is exactly why we haven’t got out of the first round

And Keefe’s PP and slow D….

 

[Menzinger]

Marner's going to need to start the season red hot and keep it up I think if he wants to get in the contract range he and his agent want from the team, at least if they want to get a chance for the contract locked up before the playoffs begis..

Otherwise things will shift disproportionately to his playoff performance in terms of determining his future with the team.

The challenge for Marner here is that historically he often has slower starts to a season And starts to pick things up closer to the midway point (similar even to last season). A slow start in a lame duck contract situation will bring lots of undesired scrutiny and public pressure

 

[notDatsyuk]

Weird how you replaced the "to the blueline" in my quote with "...". Why do you believe the blueline is such a high danger area? Why do you think that a pass being blind, backhand, backwards, and through traffic makes it more likely to succeed? Those are quite unique positions.

This from the person who is constantly deleting parts of other people's post that he doesn't like?

They are called 'ellipsis', and are standard practice to represent a portion of a sentence that is less relevant, to make the important part of the sentence stand out.

Whether a blind backhand pass is towards the blueline or anywhere else is irrelevant. A blind backhand pass, especially "through somebody" is "a particularly dangerous play".

I don't think they are more likely to succeed, but quite the contrary. I don't think anyone who has played or even watched much hockey would make such an obviously incorrect statement as "(a) blind backhand backwards pass through somebody to the blueline is not a particularly dangerous play".

 

[Dekes For Days]

This from the person who is constantly deleting parts of other people's post that he doesn't like?
They are called 'ellipsis', and are standard practice to represent a portion of a sentence that is less relevant, to make the important part of the sentence stand out.
Whether a blind backhand pass is towards the blueline or anywhere else is irrelevant. A blind backhand pass, especially "through somebody" is "a particularly dangerous play".
I don't think they are more likely to succeed, but quite the contrary. I don't think anyone who has played or even watched much hockey would make such an obviously incorrect statement as "(a) blind backhand backwards pass through somebody to the blueline is not a particularly dangerous play".

I've never removed the middle of anybody's sentence. There was no need for an ellipses to remove 3 words, especially when it removes an important part of the sentence. Where a pass is going is very relevant to whether it creates a dangerous chance.

You also seem to have completely misunderstood the statement. It is not referring to the risk for the player executing it. It is referring to the quality of the chance the play creates. The blueline is a low danger area of the ice, and a blind, backhand, backwards pass through traffic is less likely to succeed. Thus, the level of danger that that play represents for a defending PKer is pretty low.

You're literally agreeing with me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I've never removed the middle of anybody's sentence. There was no need for an ellipses to remove 3 words, especially when it removes an important part of the sentence. Where a pass is going is very relevant to whether it creates a dangerous chance.

You also seem to have completely misunderstood the statement. It is not referring to the risk for the player executing it. It is referring to the quality of the chance the play creates. The blueline is a low danger area of the ice, and a blind, backhand, backwards pass through traffic is less likely to succeed. Thus, the level of danger that that play represents for a defending PKer is pretty low.

You're literally agreeing with me.

Obviously you don't know what ellipsis do, or you wouldn't say that I removed part of your sentence.

You may not have specifically removed the middle part of someone's sentence (which I did not say you did, and which I did not do to yours), but you frequently delete relevant sentences and paragraphs.

I replaced a part that I thought made the relevant part of the sentence stand out. I was wrong - since making a blind pass towards the blueline is the worst and most dangerous.

Any blind backwards backhand pass is dangerous, but one towards the blueline is the worst, as intercepting it is most likely to lead to a break the other way.

If you think that's not the most dangerous, then I am absolutely not agreeing with you, and my original point stands - anyone who thinks "(a) blind backhand backwards pass through somebody to the blueline is not a particularly dangerous play" doesn't understand hockey.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

We can blame the core four or marner for our playoff failures but the reality is we didn’t have a goalie that could steal a game when needed
Reimer choke under pressure
Andersen see above
Campbell couldn’t make the big save when needed
Samsanov see above
Woll couldn’t stay healthy when we needed him

Compare these goalies to vasy price bob Swayman
That my friends is exactly why we haven’t got out of the first round

Yup...those goalies we had were not able to shut out everyone or at the very least allow only 1 goal so our vaunted 2g a game (in the playoffs) juggernaut offense could proceed deep into the playoffs. It's not the core 4's fault...it's the goalies.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

We can blame the core four or marner for our playoff failures but the reality is we didn’t have a goalie that could steal a game when needed

Because the money goes to our core 4 who don’t perform in the playoffs

 

[notdoneyet]

Yup...those goalies we had were not able to shut out everyone or at the very least allow only 1 goal so our vaunted 2g a game (in the playoffs) juggernaut offense could proceed deep into the playoffs. It's not the core 4's fault...it's the goalies.

It’s the goalies fault when it’s 2-2 and a soft goal is allowed in the third period that just deflates the team
Non of the goalies I mentioned could make a game saving save when needed
You tend to play a more defensive game when you have no confidence in your goalie

 

[Dekes For Days]

Obviously you don't know what ellipsis do, or you wouldn't say that I removed part of your sentence. You may not have specifically removed the middle part of someone's sentence (which I did not say you did, and which I did not do to yours), but you frequently delete relevant sentences and paragraphs. I replaced a part that I thought made the relevant part of the sentence stand out. I was wrong - since making a blind pass towards the blueline is the worst and most dangerous. Any blind backwards backhand pass is dangerous, but one towards the blueline is the worst, as intercepting it is most likely to lead to a break the other way. If you think that's not the most dangerous, then I am absolutely not agreeing with you, and my original point stands - anyone who thinks "(a) blind backhand backwards pass through somebody to the blueline is not a particularly dangerous play" doesn't understand hockey.

I know what ellipses do. What I don't know is why you chose to use it so improperly, and it doesn't change that you removed the middle part of my sentence that was central to the discussion. I don't delete anything relevant. I just don't engage with your insults.

Yes, making a blind, backhand, backwards pass through traffic to the blueline is risky for the person making that play. You are agreeing with me. But again, that's not what was being discussed. This was about the perspective of the PKer, and the quality of the chance that is being created for the PP. An attacking player making a blind, backhand, backwards pass through traffic to the blueline is not particularly dangerous for the PKer or the defending team. It's not moving the puck to a high danger area, and not only is it generally less accurate, it can more easily be picked off for a break the other way. A PK will generally not be overly concerned with preventing plays like that, as they prioritize protecting against plays that are more dangerous for them, and likely to lead to a goal against.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I know what ellipses do. What I don't know is why you chose to use it so improperly, and it doesn't change that you removed the middle part of my sentence that was central to the discussion. I don't delete anything relevant. I just don't engage with your insults.

Yes, making a blind, backhand, backwards pass through traffic to the blueline is risky for the person making that play. You are agreeing with me. But again, that's not what was being discussed. This was about the perspective of the PKer, and the quality of the chance that is being created for the PP. An attacking player making a blind, backhand, backwards pass through traffic to the blueline is not particularly dangerous for the PKer or the defending team. It's not moving the puck to a high danger area, and not only is it generally less accurate, it can more easily be picked off for a break the other way. A PK will generally not be overly concerned with preventing plays like that, as they prioritize protecting against plays that are more dangerous for them, and likely to lead to a goal against.

Seriously? Not only did you misspell the word, you obviously don't know what it means if you think I used it improperly, or removed any part of your statement.

You are as usual moving the posts when shown to be wrong. The discussion was about Marner making a dangerous play, and you are trying to change it.

I'm sure you will continue to bleat out your mistakes and twisted versions, but I find no need to continue to correct you.

 

[Antropovsky]

I can only say what I’ve heard through heresy but what I was told was that they had a set play drawn up if Matthews won. Nylander was not supposed to pass that puck to McCabe it was supposed to be Nylander wins the puck battle swaps with McCabe and shoots low for a Marner tip or Matthews back door. It was supposed to be a quick play to get the puck on net fast. Matthews was pissed the play didn’t happen as planned so he was going after Nylander. Argument was between Nylander and Matthews. Marner was just sitting in between them. That’s why the story died pretty quickly the next day because a lot of insiders/hockey people were told that Marner really wasn’t involved in the interaction. Again Hersey but that’s what I’ve been told. But I can see how people thought it had to do with Marner.

Also Nylander was mic’d that night. He did not say stop f***ing crying bro. Hahaha the public was way off on that.

The way you describe doesnt make sense though if you watch the game tape.

That play was never available from the faceoff... so there is no way Marner wouldve thrown a hissy fit over a play that wasnt even available. Besides off the faceoff, Mccabe is skating backwards and not towards Nylander and Marner goes to goal line boards not the net off the faceoff.

15 seconds after the faceoff win, Marner went to the net (more less by accident) and he took a light check from behind and collapsed like he was shot. He was certainly complaining to the ref because he stayed on his knees and was looking towards the rw goal line and talking... only the ref was in that corner and the puck was on the opposite side of the ice. So Marner literally had his back on the play.

The play went the other way, in part because Marner took himself out of the play in order to complain to the ref... which Nylander had the perfect viewpoint of.

53 seconds after hes on his knees complaining. Marners shift ends because leafs cover the puck...Marner seeks out the ref and proceeded to complain even more. Literally seconds later when Marner gets to the bench, Nylander said quit crying bro. So we think Marner stopped being mad at the ref he spent an entire shift being mad at and goes to the bench and immediately starts getting mad at Nylander?

Its most likely that Marner was still yelling at the ref from the bench, (he probably was warned by the ref that he would be given a penalty if hr didnt stop) which promped Nylander to say "quit fing crying bro".

This is obviously something the Leaf players wouldnt admit because it would reflect terribly on Marner and media and fans already had pitchforks out for him.

 

[Leafs87]

My guess is the Leafs overpay as they always do. Really sad we get into this position every time and never once tried to change up this core after repeated failures

 

[Dekes For Days]

Seriously? Not only did you misspell the word, you obviously don't know what it means if you think I used it improperly, or removed any part of your statement.
You are as usual moving the posts when shown to be wrong. The discussion was about Marner making a dangerous play, and you are trying to change it.

Ellipses is the plural, not misspelled, and they're not supposed to be used to remove 3 important words in the middle of a sentence. The discussion was not about Marner making a dangerous play. The discussion was always about a play made by Coyle prior to Boston's 2nd goal in game 4. Marner was the one defending that play on the PK, and my statement was about the play in question not being particularly dangerous from the perspective of the PK. It doesn't seem like you even read the discussion or post you responded to.

 

[francis246]

The way you describe doesnt make sense though if you watch the game tape.

That play was never available from the faceoff... so there is no way Marner wouldve thrown a hissy fit over a play that wasnt even available. Besides off the faceoff, Mccabe is skating backwards and not towards Nylander and Marner goes to goal line boards not the net off the faceoff.

15 seconds after the faceoff win, Marner went to the net (more less by accident) and he took a light check from behind and collapsed like he was shot. He was certainly complaining to the ref because he stayed on his knees and was looking towards the rw goal line and talking... only the ref was in that corner and the puck was on the opposite side of the ice. So Marner literally had his back on the play.

The play went the other way, in part because Marner took himself out of the play in order to complain to the ref... which Nylander had the perfect viewpoint of.

53 seconds after hes on his knees complaining. Marners shift ends because leafs cover the puck...Marner seeks out the ref and proceeded to complain even more. Literally seconds later when Marner gets to the bench, Nylander said quit crying bro. So we think Marner stopped being mad at the ref he spent an entire shift being mad at and goes to the bench and immediately starts getting mad at Nylander?

Its most likely that Marner was still yelling at the ref from the bench, (he probably was warned by the ref that he would be given a penalty if hr didnt stop) which promped Nylander to say "quit fing crying bro".

This is obviously something the Leaf players wouldnt admit because it would reflect terribly on Marner and media and fans already had pitchforks out for him.

Again I’m telling what I’ve heard from people who work in the leafs org and also someone who works in Sportsnet/cbc on their broadcast team, high level. The argument was because of some set play that didn’t happen. Had nothing to do with Marner. The shot was very awkward with Bertuzzi & Marner in the middle that’s why they isolated Matthews and Nylander. Those two were arguing. Keefe said something to Matthews, which then prompted Matthews to start going after Nylander.

The Nylander quote was to Matthews, “stop f***ing crying bro, that’s the or (our) f***ing issue, people always yelling and shit” not “this isn’t junior”

The only person yelling on the bench was Matthews. So why would Nylander say that to Marner or Bertuzzi when both were just chilling in the middle? Even on the broadcast, they said the argument had to do with someone not shooting the puck. Marner never had the puck the entire possession. Clearly it was an argument between Matthews and Nylander. I know you want it to be Marner for some odd reason, but it really wasn’t.

While what you said about the Marner cross/check is true it was not related to what happened on the bench. The bench argument was about a set play Matthews, Keefe, Marner wanted and something got messed up. It was a set play they were trying to run multiple times it wasn’t just that specific power play. The argument happens during a TV timeout and continues after Matthews and Keefe have a little heated discussion.


Additionally multiple people behind the leafs bench have gone on social media to say that it was between Matthews and Nylander. So that should pretty much put it to rest. People who were there first hand were saying that.

 

[ACC1224]

Again I’m telling what I’ve heard from people who work in the leafs org and also someone who works in Sportsnet/cbc on their broadcast team, high level. The argument was because of some set play that didn’t happen. Had nothing to do with Marner. The shot was very awkward with Bertuzzi & Marner in the middle that’s why they isolated Matthews and Nylander. Those two were arguing. Keefe said something to Matthews, which then prompted Matthews to start going after Nylander.

The Nylander quote was to Matthews, “stop f***ing crying bro, that’s the or (our) f***ing issue, people always yelling and shit” not “this isn’t junior”

The only person yelling on the bench was Matthews. So why would Nylander say that to Marner or Bertuzzi when both were just chilling in the middle? Even on the broadcast, they said the argument had to do with someone not shooting the puck. Marner never had the puck the entire possession. Clearly it was an argument between Matthews and Nylander. I know you want it to be Marner for some odd reason, but it really wasn’t.

While what you said about the Marner cross/check is true it was not related to what happened on the bench. The bench argument was about a set play Matthews, Keefe, Marner wanted and something got messed up. It was a set play they were trying to run multiple times it wasn’t just that specific power play. The argument happens during a TV timeout and continues after Matthews and Keefe have a little heated discussion.


Additionally multiple people behind the leafs bench have gone on social media to say that it was between Matthews and Nylander. So that should pretty much put it to rest. People who were there first hand were saying that.

This is 100% what happened. I thought it was common knowledge and forgotten about.
I guess it would be if a certain villain didn’t happen to be sitting there.

 

[francis246]

This is 100% what happened. I thought it was common knowledge and forgotten about.
I guess it would be if a certain villain didn’t happen to be sitting there.

Yeah either way it’s something that happens a lot on NHL benches. Lots of players get into heated arguments. They are competitors and want to win.

 

[Arzak]

According to this logic, McDavid is 3m overpaid. Somebody should break the news to Edmonton...

...Or maybe that's not how contracts work.

Oh that's rich coming from you

Tell us more about 11M Mitch RFA Marner and why his contract is good for Leafs . That's your thing, this pretending you don't get why McDavid is an outlier unlike Mitch "cries on the bench a lot" Marner stick is not working.


According to this logic, the whole league is underpaid by 5M hence why Mitch is paid the market.

 

[Hellcat]

Do you have an example of me showing this Dunning-Kruger effect, or are you just throwing out random accusations? Or are you referring to my opinions on Marner, which plenty of others have supported—disproving your claim?

Attacking spelling mistakes on a hockey message board—good grief. Nothing screams "I don't have a life" more than that.

I never said you were afflicted by Dunning-Kruger, I merely posted a cognitive condition out of context like you did.. I thought this is what we were doing now? Did you know the first rule of the Dunning–Kruger club is you don't know you're a member of the Dunning–Kruger club?

Multiple people supporting an opinion is not proof the opinion is valid, millions of people agree with each other that the Earth is flat, does that mean their opinion is correct? Dr Antro do you believe the earth is flat? Dunning-Kruger effect is not monolithic, you know what they say, birds of a feather...

​

 

[Hellcat]

We can blame the core four or marner for our playoff failures but the reality is we didn’t have a goalie that could steal a game when needed
Reimer choke under pressure
Andersen see above
Campbell couldn’t make the big save when needed
Samsanov see above
Woll couldn’t stay healthy when we needed him

Compare these goalies to vasy price bob Swayman
That my friends is exactly why we haven’t got out of the first round

Agreed none of them played well enough to over come the poor coaching and skaters lack of ability overcome but to be fair to our goalies, you need to get through 5 defenders before you get to the goalie. Yes in those series we got goalieed but we also didn't play overly well structurally with or without the puck, we didn't break down the other teams team defence well. If your goalie has to be a Veznia candidate every night in the playoffs, which is basically what our guys had to do, your coaching staff is not doing enough to get your skaters prepped. You can expose teams if you 1) have good pro scouting and good management/coaching staff who can analyse what the other team is doing well (to stop them) and 2) figure out what their weakness is and expose them.

The between periods talks from Keefe were pure TV fluff, based on the available video, there was never any in game strategy adjustments discussed. It was basically what ever game plan we had going into the game is what we are doing. How many times did we see our opponents look like tougher better opponents after an intermission, that suggests to me they were making adjustments. How many times did we look like a different, better educated, tougher to play against team after we had a poor period?

IMO the GM, coaching staff, analytics dept and pro scouting bear a lions share of the responsibility for why the team has grossly under achieved.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tell us more about 11M Mitch RFA Marner and why his contract is good for Leafs . That's your thing, this pretending you don't get why McDavid is an outlier unlike Mitch "cries on the bench a lot" Marner stick is not working. According to this logic, the whole league is underpaid by 5M hence why Mitch is paid the market.

McDavid is an outlier. He very publicly took a discount of 750k per year, and that knocked his cap hit below even his negotiated value from over 7 years ago. But that just makes Mess' logic look even worse. He suggested that 100 assists is required to earn 9.5m. This would make McDavid 3m overpaid on his discount contract, and pretty much the whole rest of the league over the past 32 years overpaid. Which is obviously ridiculous, and highlights why Kucherov was chosen. Of course, that's not even how contracts work, and I've already shown you numerous times that the 10.9m that Marner earned was consistent with history, and not the disaster you like to pretend it is.

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah either way it’s something that happens a lot on NHL benches. Lots of players get into heated arguments. They are competitors and want to win.

LIAR!!!! It only happens on the Leafs and only happens to Mitch!!!!! Because that is the only narrative I want to believe!!!!