ULF_55
Moderator
That is a per game choice?
Rangers list 4 assistants captains.
Marner Predictions - What Happens Now
- Thread starter LeafSteel
- Start date
Rangers list 4 assistants captains.
ULF_55
Moderator
As far as "A" or not "A", who cares.
However, seeing the Leafs have 3 players who are capable of being 10 ten in their positions, and two who are touted as Selke calibre, and some example of Domi doing marner's job last year ...,
Knies - Matthew (S) - Domi
Nylander - ?Tavares / Other? - marner (S)
The talk is Nylander isn't great defensively, but marner is.
Nylander provides a shooter for the "assist Selke" man.
Matthews doesn't need a Selke winger to support him defensively.
Or just change the coach but forbid him from making any significant changes. That works too
However, seeing the Leafs have 3 players who are capable of being 10 ten in their positions, and two who are touted as Selke calibre, and some example of Domi doing marner's job last year ...,
Knies - Matthew (S) - Domi
Nylander - ?Tavares / Other? - marner (S)
The talk is Nylander isn't great defensively, but marner is.
Nylander provides a shooter for the "assist Selke" man.
Matthews doesn't need a Selke winger to support him defensively.
Or just change the coach but forbid him from making any significant changes. That works too
thewave
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As far as "A" or not "A", who cares.
However, seeing the Leafs have 3 players who are capable of being 10 ten in their positions, and two who are touted as Selke calibre, and some example of Domi doing marner's job last year ...,
Knies - Matthew (S) - Domi
Nylander - ?Tavares / Other? - marner (S)
The talk is Nylander isn't great defensively, but marner is.
Nylander provides a shooter for the "assist Selke" man.
Matthews doesn't need a Selke winger to support him defensively.
Or just change the coach but forbid him from making any significant changes. That works too
How many other teams Captains and Alternates have you seen throw tantrums or cry during a game?
I think its a legit issue.
Fun fact.. center have much harder defensive jobs than Wingers. Wingwrs have the easiest job on the ice defensively. Its common knowledge.As far as "A" or not "A", who cares.
However, seeing the Leafs have 3 players who are capable of being 10 ten in their positions, and two who are touted as Selke calibre, and some example of Domi doing marner's job last year ...,
Knies - Matthew (S) - Domi
Nylander - ?Tavares / Other? - marner (S)
The talk is Nylander isn't great defensively, but marner is.
Nylander provides a shooter for the "assist Selke" man.
Matthews doesn't need a Selke winger to support him defensively.
Or just change the coach but forbid him from making any significant changes. That works too
Also fun fact:
Bertuzzi Tavares Nylander
Xgf/60: 3.37
Xga/60: 2.59
Bertuzzi Tavares Marner
Xgf/60: 2.44
Xga/60: 2.73
Marner Matthews Knies
Xgf/60: 3.16
Xga/60: 2.23
Nylander Matthews Knies
Xgf/60: 3.72
Xga/60: 2.29
Nylander gets alot of criticism for his lack of defense, but lines with him vs with Selke Marner were much more offensive, and actually better or the same defensively.
not so Selke Marner when hes away from Selke Center Matthews.
Domi's stats with Matthews looked even more Gretzky than Marners. The Matthews effect? Or had Domi just been severely underappreciated and just coincidently figured it out with Matthews?
Knowing what we know about how the last negotiation played out - he will most likely come in at a very high number (13.5+NMCx8), but will also need a guaranteed leadership position as in his mind, he is Matthews equal (as shown in previous negotiations).
Knowing he can’t get the captain role, we will hear more through media leaks regarding the “raising cap” and why 13-13.5+ is realistic long term. The Ferris lead media will try and normalize this number, as the media did previously with Matthews, and recently with Nylander. This is all so when he comes in around 12.5, Mitch can be looked at as the hero.
It’s all image with Marner after all.. That’s why his leadership roles need to be negotiated and not earned. That extra 93k had to be tacked on to his last deal as a “tribute” to Gilmore (give me a break).
Hopefully our new management doesn't further cater to Marner and his camp and let him walk as a UFA. Enough is enough with this silver-spoon, entitled child in Toronto.
Knowing he can’t get the captain role, we will hear more through media leaks regarding the “raising cap” and why 13-13.5+ is realistic long term. The Ferris lead media will try and normalize this number, as the media did previously with Matthews, and recently with Nylander. This is all so when he comes in around 12.5, Mitch can be looked at as the hero.
It’s all image with Marner after all.. That’s why his leadership roles need to be negotiated and not earned. That extra 93k had to be tacked on to his last deal as a “tribute” to Gilmore (give me a break).
Hopefully our new management doesn't further cater to Marner and his camp and let him walk as a UFA. Enough is enough with this silver-spoon, entitled child in Toronto.
In today's NHL where the defensive systems are more refined and effective than ever - you really don't need your wingers to be anything special defensively.
As long as they're pressuring the points, have enough puck awareness to get themselves open for breakout passes when their team gets the puck back, and actually puts in effort backchecking, forechecking, etc.. the defensive ability of your wingers is certainly not going to make or break your team.
Were Hawks fans ever bellyaching about how bad Kane was defensively? What about Florida fans with Tkachuk?
Al14
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HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
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At this point?
He puts up 40 points in his first 25 games and gets a 13M AAV contract extension before christmas. Then he is inconsistent but finishes with 110 points and shits the bed in the playoffs.
He puts up 40 points in his first 25 games and gets a 13M AAV contract extension before christmas. Then he is inconsistent but finishes with 110 points and shits the bed in the playoffs.
Fogelhund
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Where Swayman turns into a Sieve, and Marner turns into a playoff warrior, leading them to the Cup and winning the Conn Smythe.
Evilhomer
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Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
ULF_55
Moderator
In regards to "A's"
Two committed long term employees:
Rielly - Home
Tanev - Road
Already Promised:
Tavares
Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
Sound like something he should slap on the front of his $40 boxes of granola cereal.
ULF_55
Moderator
His value will never be higher, he's a 50-70 point guy on a team that's not Toronto/Edmonton.
Same type of thing will happen with Mitch that happened to Jon H in calgary. Doesn't mean there bad players, or underperforming, just different system/game/players.
Same type of thing will happen with Mitch that happened to Jon H in calgary. Doesn't mean there bad players, or underperforming, just different system/game/players.
Here's the frustrating thing for me...
Brad Treliving comes to Toronto as "the guy who let Johnny Gaudreau walk"; with the storyline of "that was terrible asset management he's probably learned his lesson".
He then does the same thing with William Nylander, gets pushed around in negotations, and overpays by about $1.5 to $2m.
Now, up for Marner... who will either likely get extended at a stupid rate, or walk for nothing.
What is SOOOOOO wrong with a little professional hardball? What's so wrong with saying "this is the number we can give you, you're not gonna like it, let's work together and get you to your next destination???"
Brad Treliving comes to Toronto as "the guy who let Johnny Gaudreau walk"; with the storyline of "that was terrible asset management he's probably learned his lesson".
He then does the same thing with William Nylander, gets pushed around in negotations, and overpays by about $1.5 to $2m.
Now, up for Marner... who will either likely get extended at a stupid rate, or walk for nothing.
What is SOOOOOO wrong with a little professional hardball? What's so wrong with saying "this is the number we can give you, you're not gonna like it, let's work together and get you to your next destination???"
notDatsyuk
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I think for some the only thing they would consider "real change" would be bringing back Dubas.
What do YOU think?
Stephen
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Sometimes I think the problem with the Leafs is they make money like an NBA team but live in an NHL cap world, so they just don't play hardball the way they could because it's not reality for them.
The Leafs and Raptors live under the same MLSE roof, but somehow the organization's biggest star, Auston Matthews, makes about 40% of Immanuel Quickley's new deal, which is set to pay him $32 million per year.
notDatsyuk
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He let Gaudreau walk, and didn't let Nylander walk, so those are the same?
How do you know he didn't play hardball with Nylander - because you think he was overpaid?
How do you know he hasn't or won't say that to Marner?
He let Nylander go into the season without a contract... putting a good team in an impossible situation where you basically can't trade him as it would cut the legs out of a team in mid-season form.
As for Marner, it's August 26th and almost every team is capped out. The time to move big money is in June or very early July, so that both teams can adjust their lineups around that big money move.
notDatsyuk
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Why do you think that was an impossible position? Nylander was signed for what was apparently his original asking price, so the actual signing date turned out to be irrelevant.
If, as reportedly stated by his agent, Marner has no intention of waiving, then how do you blame Tre for not trading him?
If Tre doesn't want to re-sign him and can't trade him, why be surprised or upset that he hasn't done anything?
Racer88
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It’s because the NHL has so many poverty teams that they would go bankrupt without the lower hard cap and the wealthy teams propping them up
Going into last season, the Leafs knew, that there was probably a 90% chance that the Leafs would be in, or very close to, a playoff spot throughout the year, including at the deadline.
Being a likely playoff team, how can you, as a GM, go out and trade William Nylander mid-season? You're going to lose that deal in the immediate, 100% of the time. Making a trade that you know is an immediate loss, would absolutely gut a team's confidence, and likely spiral the season out of control. You just can't do it.
So now you're in an impossible position of either signing him to his ludicrous demands (i.e. playing hardball) or losing him for nothing. Obviously, they signed him.
Nylander has the 6th highest cap hit in the league this year.... sure he's put up back to back 40 goal seasons and 87-98 points the last 2 years, but that's not exactly the world's biggest accomplishment these days. There were 9 players who put up over 100 points last year. There were 17 that had 40 goals or more. There are guys that put up 80-99 points or 30-39 goals who had to be the best players on their team, are centres, defencemen, and/or have other qualities like being solid two-way players.
Call me crazy.... but in any contract, there should be some years that you know are going to be "good", and some that you know are going to be "bad"... with the idea that the ideally the good outweighs the bad. Nylander is not the league's 6th best player. Without doing much research, I'd think you'd have to rank him somewhere in the 15-25 range.
How many years until he becomes the ~20th highest paid player in the league? My guess is that happens in year 4 of his deal, at which point he'll be 32, and probably not a top 20 player.
Back to Marner, call me crazy, but I refuse to believe that it's in Marner's best interest to have a lame duck season if it's clear that this is his last year in Toronto.
Last edited:
Arzak
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That ship has sailed. Plus they traded Vezina Ulmark, Swayman was never an option.
Nylander for Ulmark on the other hand was very much on the table.
