Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[Nineteen67]

But there is a correlation. Whether true or not the media said he was waiting basically to be told by Toronto they could or could not afford him. Why'd it take so long? Because Marner is close and I do agree they would've had to make a deal to fit him but I wonder now if Marner deal will be greater than the 3 yr bridge.

Could be but it would likely mean there was an offer to Marner in the $6 million range, otherwise, I don’t see how they could possibly sign Jake without moving someone else.

 

[hotpaws]

I dunno....vezina caliber goaltending didnt hurt, nor did a proper coach and really solid depth.

for 9 years all i read was how poor Johnny was stuck carrying AHL players on his back and the first season he was gone all it took was a good coach to get them as far as they ever went with JT

maybe it was too much crapping on JT's teammates to try to make his light shine brighter

 

[Mess]

Imo biggest flaw is thinking that elc and league minimum contracts for depth guys means lesser quality. The Leafs got way, way more value at Johnssson at 800k last season than the 6+ mil Marleau for example.

That same principle is now also working in reverse against the Leafs ..

Leafs got way, way more value with Marner scoring 94 points @ $875k ELC than they could possibly ever get proportionally at $10-11 mil now for that +$ 9-10 mil extra cap expenditure.

It was basically Marner + Marleau + Gardiner = $11 mil cap combined last year.

Now its going to be Marner minus Leafs 1st round pick minus Marleau minus Gardiner plus Clarkson LTIR = ~94 point Mitch for the same cap usage.

You're correct in that the greatest value any team gets is when they have young players on cheap ELC contracts that produce at high levels well above their output in production. When you resign your own player for large pay increases using up massive amounts of cap space and get similar production that advantage is gone and its now a disadvantage in terms of surrounding team depth.

 

[ULF_55]

for 9 years all i read was how poor Johnny was stuck carrying AHL players on his back and the first season he was gone all it took was a good coach to get them as far as they ever went with JT

maybe it was too much crapping on JT's teammates to try to make his light shine brighter

Well you have a point about points.

Getting lots of points doesn't make you a winner.

Like the Islanders showed moving high point producers or not signing your higher point producers isn't the end of the world.

You might even do better if you replace your higher point producers with better team players.

You just might have convinced me.

 

[Trapper]

I dunno....vezina caliber goaltending didnt hurt, nor did a proper coach and really solid depth.

Your comment is like barzal is better then mcdavid since edmonton has not won a round.

Edmonton won round 1 of the playoffs vs. the Sharks. They lost in the 2nd to Anaheim.

 

[crump]

It will be over 12 weeks of waiting if he holds out until mid preseason...

That's also the jersey number of his second dad, who will tell him to smarten up and sign.

 

[Marshy]

It will be over 12 weeks of waiting if he holds out until mid preseason...

That's also the jersey number of his second dad, who will tell him to smarten up and sign.

I've been glued to this site all summer and consider myself pretty informed about all things Leaf...


...but can anyone explain this post to me?

 

[Dekes For Days]

But there is a correlation. Whether true or not the media said he was waiting basically to be told by Toronto they could or could not afford him. Why'd it take so long?

Even if the speculation that Gardiner was waiting on the Leafs is true, that is likely because they were exploring their options with their forward and defensive depth to see if moving one out for Gardiner made sense.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The Leafs are totally, 100% in control here, like they were with Nylander. No one knows why they blew that one though.

They didn't.

 

[Nineteen67]

I've been glued to this site all summer and consider myself pretty informed about all things Leaf...


...but can anyone explain this post to me?

12 weeks from July 1sr? Best I got

 

[Nineteen67]

Even if the speculation that Gardiner was waiting on the Leafs is true, that is likely because they were exploring their options with their forward and defensive depth to see if moving one out for Gardiner made sense.

I guess Gardiner wasnt accepting 4.05 when the Leafs signed Ceci. Or maybe they didn’t want him at all.

 

[Dekes For Days]

there were reports of ''significant interest'' in offer sheeting all the major ufa's yet none of them received a monster offer sheet

Except Aho got an offer sheet, and there was speculation that Point and Marner were both approached.

Also, Matthews is significantly better, more valuable, and rarer than any other RFA that has hit the offer-sheet market in I don't even know how long. I don't even know if there is one in the cap era.

would have justified the Dube's signing him to the most player friendly deal in the league

Matthews is not even close to the most player friendly deal in the league.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I guess Gardiner wasnt accepting 4.05 when the Leafs signed Ceci. Or maybe they didn’t want him at all.

Ceci was already qualified by Ottawa, so if they didn't sign him, he would have gone to arbitration.

Also, I'd personally rather have Ceci for one year than Gardiner for 4. Ceci fits the make-up/balance of the team better, it fits our future cap better, and Gardiner is just as much of a risk if not more with his back.

 

[HappyJoy]

Except Aho got an offer sheet, and there was speculation that Point and Marner were both approached.

Also, Matthews is significantly better, more valuable, and rarer than any other RFA that has hit the offer-sheet market in I don't even know how long. I don't even know if there is one in the cap era.


Matthews is not even close to the most player friendly deal in the league.

I'd very much like to know which contract is more player friendly in your opinion.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Pretty much December really.

Gotcha

 

[Fogelhund]

I'd very much like to know which contract is more player friendly in your opinion.

Kevin Labanc.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'd very much like to know which contract is more player friendly in your opinion.

In reality, most of them. The large majority of UFAs will provide less value to their team at their cap hit over their contracts than Matthews will, as he is signed through his prime instead of his declining years.

Among his RFA peers, also many of them. Some will/have gone on to improve since signing, so they provide additional value in that sense, but that doesn't make the signing team-friendly. At time of signing (and we haven't given Matthews the opportunity to even start his contract like we have for others), Matthews was in extremely elite company, and was paid appropriately.

People here let a random team stat like PP opportunities (in which Toronto was last last year, and 3rd last the year before) skew their perception of players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

To clarify, Matthews, at time of signing, had the 2nd best even strength points per game of any player who signed their post-ELC contract in the entire cap era, behind only McDavid.

When you adjust for league ES scoring rates over different years, Matthews had the 6th best even strength points per game of any player who signed their post-ELC contract in the entire cap era, behind only McDavid, Heatley, Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin. Matthews got a lower cap hit percentage than all of those players except Heatley, who signed a 3-year bridge.

 

[Legion34]

I'd very much like to know which contract is more player friendly in your opinion.

Ummmmm we have 2 of them on our team?
Lucic? Erikson?

Hayes?

 

[Legion34]

To clarify, Matthews, at time of signing, had the 2nd best even strength points per game of any player who signed their post-ELC contract in the entire cap era, behind only McDavid.

When you adjust for league ES scoring rates over different years, Matthews had the 6th best even strength points per game of any player who signed their post-ELC contract in the entire cap era, behind only McDavid, Heatley, Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin. Matthews got a lower cap hit percentage than all of those players except Heatley, who signed a 3-year bridge.

And 4th in goals. And 2 in GPG

 

[Damisoph]

oh hey I love reading more tedious moaning about AM's deal in the Mitch Marner thread.

 

[kb]

oh hey I love reading more tedious moaning about AM's deal in the Mitch Marner thread.

Even when it's within the range of his historical comparables.

 

[Suntouchable13]

oh hey I love reading more tedious moaning about AM's deal in the Mitch Marner thread.

This whole thing is tedious. Like talking about Marner's contract is not tedious. This guy should sign or f*** off. Sick of it.

 

[18leafsfan18]

oh hey I love reading more tedious moaning about AM's deal in the Mitch Marner thread.

Even when it's within the range of his historical comparables.

Dont forget he is bailing in 5 years and "based on term" he is the highest paid player in the league (however the hell that is a possibility)

 

[kb]

This season can't start fast enough. I still think Marner will sign.