Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[BackPassChampions]

Come on Marner.

 

[DarkKnight]

It’s not even fall yet, stop depressing me.

 

[moon111]

The boys are competitive. First Matthews scores big contract, then Marner leads the team in scoring.
But then Matthews one up's him by coming back with facial hair. Marner's not coming back unless he gets $12 million.

 

[Walshy7]

The boys are competitive. First Matthews scores big contract, then Marner leads the team in scoring.
But then Matthews one up's him by coming back with facial hair. Marner's not coming back unless he gets $12 million.

Paul Marner just added a clause in the negotiations no leaf can grow facial hair until mitch can too.

 

[Menzinger]

@Nithoniniel


Sure. At the same time Dom's on-ice impact value for Toronto's roster zips past 95M without including Marner, Dermott, Freddie, the backup, Kessel's money owed etc. Add them in and it stands at about 150% of the cap.

How good are Matthews, Marner and Tavares going to be if all their teammates are league min or ELCs?

Toews and Kane got paid - and never won a cup since.
Crosby and Malkin got paid - and didn't win another cup for 7 years - when their cap hit % had fallen significantly.
Matthews, Tavares, Nylander (and presumably Marner) got paid - they hadn't won a cup, and it is extremely unlikely that the Leafs will carrying their cap hits.

Imo biggest flaw is thinking that elc and league minimum contracts for depth guys means lesser quality. The Leafs got way, way more value at Johnssson at 800k last season than the 6+ mil Marleau for example.

 

[Nineteen67]

The boys are competitive. First Matthews scores big contract, then Marner leads the team in scoring.
But then Matthews one up's him by coming back with facial hair. Marner's not coming back unless he gets $12 million.

Good point. Mitchell has to spend big $$$$ to get a moustache implant just to look like Don Auston

 

[egd27]

Not even close.
We passed thread xxx with Willy...

We hit 50 on the day he signed

 

[ULF_55]

I said that elite players are opportunist situations. Which goalie did you have in mind and how many extra goals will that goalie prevent that will offer up a clear advantage to losing marner. Which is the best defenseman that you demand a team to give up for Marner. My point is that you need a comparably elite player in exchange for Marner and you haven't proposed one. I would be curious to see what you propose.
As for Tavares, you are completely conflating fantasy that Tavares is the reason why Marner did so well because Tavares carried him. 2017-18, Tavares EV GAR was 4.3 while Marners was 7.1. By every measure, (GAR, g/60 and p/60 at even strength), Tavares benefited more playing with Marner than the other way around. It is just insanity that people think differently.

don't have time on the deck having some beers but if you are suggesting marner scores the same points with Marleau and kadri or that playing with a franchise center had no impact then there is no reason for further discussion.

Tavares is a star on his own.

 

[jrgtml67]

Anyone else realize that the media said Gards was waiting on Toronto before signing anywhere else? I really feel we are close now and not any leaks..its the Dubas cone of silence..and to those who think Ferris would say anything. He wouldn't. If indeed things were close because it may affect his client not getting the said offer (if there is one close) and I think there is.

 

[Hclass47]

I really don't want Dubas doing this again.

It worked out great for Nylander, as he got paid his full salary with a raise, and had an excuse for having a poor season in that he missed camp and sat out.

It did NOT work out so great for us. We got an ineffective player, msessed up our chemistry mid-season and burned a year off of Nylander's hard-fought for contract. Not a great deal for us at all.

I would rather make it clear to Mitch that if he misses camp, he's going to sit the season or he can take his chances getting hurt in Europe playing for peanuts because our $9.5 million offer isn't high enough for him.

I don't want another mid-season interruption and I don't want us *****-footing around again with this crap. Sign and show up or sit and rot.

...... having said that, I think he signs half-way through camp.

Dubas had to sign Willy just like he has to sign Mitch. The window to win is now. Imagine the backlash if either of them held out the entire season and didn’t play. Effectively throwing a season away.

I wish Mitch was the first to sign an extension of the big 3. It would of been easier to say WN your less than and AM your greater than instead of him thinking he is equal to AM and should be the highest paid winger in the league

 

[Nineteen67]

Anyone else realize that the media said Gards was waiting on Toronto before signing anywhere else? I really feel we are close now and not any leaks..its the Dubas cone of silence..and to those who think Ferris would say anything. He wouldn't. If indeed things were close because it may affect his client not getting the said offer (if there is one close) and I think there is.

I expect them to get it done soon, but I don’t think there is any correlation between Marner and Gardiner. Without trading $ they couldn’t sign Gardiner regardless of where they are with Mitch.

 

[hfman]

leafs are going to let him sit the year

and so are the other GMs who are having this same problem

management of all teams will work together to set the playing field and will let all these selfish, greedy and entitled players to sit out the entire year and not only lose a year's salary but also lose their worth for when they sign next year

you want 9 mil today, Mitch? Sign now.

Otherwise you can take your ball, stay home and sign for 6.9 next year

 

[jrgtml67]

I expect them to get it done soon, but I don’t think there is any correlation between Marner and Gardiner. Without trading $ they couldn’t sign Gardiner regardless of where they are with Mitch.

But there is a correlation. Whether true or not the media said he was waiting basically to be told by Toronto they could or could not afford him. Why'd it take so long? Because Marner is close and I do agree they would've had to make a deal to fit him but I wonder now if Marner deal will be greater than the 3 yr bridge.

 

[jrgtml67]

leafs are going to let him sit the year

and so are the other GMs who are having this same problem

management of all teams will work together to set the playing field and will let all these selfish, greedy and entitled players to sit out the entire year and not only lose a year's salary but also lose their worth for when they sign next year

you want 9 mil today, Mitch? Sign now.

Otherwise you can take your ball, stay home and sign for 6.9 next year

That's umm well wrong. 1st players dont want to sit, second the RFAs outside Laine maybe vastly improve their teams chance at winning the cup. You think Raatenen, Point, Connor dont do that?

It's taking so long because the landscape has changed and camp hasn't begun once it does so does the real clock. I'd bet a lot and say none of the RFAs sit..maybe Laine but even then WPG would trade him first..it doesnt do anyone any good by sitting the player. No stats for that year, and magically 8 or 9m you think goes to 6.5 or 7m?

Let's wait and see but can pretty well guarantee zero sit

 

[hfman]

It's taking so long because the landscape has changed and camp hasn't begun once it does so does the real clock. I'd bet a lot and say none of the RFAs sit..maybe Laine but even then WPG would trade him first..it doesnt do anyone any good by sitting the player. No stats for that year, and magically 8 or 9m you think goes to 6.5 or 7m?

Let's wait and see but can pretty well guarantee zero sit

no one knows exact numbers but if they sit out the year then they will not get the same money next year that they could get today.

Could you imagine, MOREner next freaking July, after not playing for 1.5 years, demanding 12 million a season from any team? LOL.. never, ever gonna happen. His value will have plummeted by that time after having not played for so long and also painting himself as a selfish, non-team player who wouldn't sign because he couldn't get his money.

The Leafs are totally, 100% in control here, like they were with MElander. No one knows why they blew that one though.

I think the Leafs already went through this one with MElander and got burned because of his garbage season after his signing, so I don't think they want this to happen twice. In the public eye of those who follow this stuff, it always appeared that MElander fleeced the Leafs with that contract and then he mailed it in right after he got paid. The fans know this, and management knows this. They're not going to let it happen again - they learned their lesson.

After that whole MElander fiasco, I can't help but to see that spoiled kid as someone who does not give 2 rat's @sses abut the Leafs, and he would glady play for any of the other 30 teams if they would pay him more. He has no association with this city, and he doesn't care one bit if he plays here or not. I also feel that way about Matthews but not Tavares or MOREner, but that's just my 2 cents and a whole different topic.

And remember - it was MElander who called the Leafs right before the deadline - not vice versa (as per MElander himself). So this time, the Leafs will play this one right and hold out right to the end until MOREner signs.

Just my hunch

 

[lottster14]

Some nice reality TV bla bla fyre fest bla. Do you want to play here or not? take the 9.5 or whatever MILLION at age 22 and get it over with. It's not the end of the world if you can't squeeze out and extra mil

 

[hfman]

and even he isn't going to be here in 5 years because just like MElander he has no association or ties to this city at all.. he's going to bolt soon as this deal is done in 2025 or whatever year it is

i think this will be the new wave of the future:

instead of players remaining "loyal" to their team for an entire career, they will now instead take on shorter deals and shuffle in and out of many teams over the course of their career. In due time, all players will be doing this and the entire league will be a fresh start every single year with a brand new landscape every October. New players on each team every year (including superstars), and nothing gets old or stale because we never know who's going to be on our team in the upcoming season.

We might be seeing the beginning of this right now.

 

[TomP24684]

and even he isn't going to be here in 5 years because just like MElander he has no association or ties to this city at all.. he's going to bolt soon as this deal is done in 2025 or whatever year it is

i think this will be the new wave of the future:

instead of players remaining "loyal" to their team for an entire career, they will now instead take on shorter deals and shuffle in and out of many teams over the course of their career. In due time, all players will be doing this and the entire league will be a fresh start every single year with a brand new landscape every October. Players on new teams, nothing gets old or stale.

We might be seeing the beginning of this right now.

What you just said is basically the wet dream of this website.

 

[Notsince67]

don't have time on the deck having some beers but if you are suggesting marner scores the same points with Marleau and kadri or that playing with a franchise center had no impact then there is no reason for further discussion.

Tavares is a star on his own.

Never said marner didnt benefit as all players would

 

[Nithoniniel]

I have the same position still. If we walk into camp without Marner, I'll hold that against him. If we walk into the season without him, I'll definitely hold that against him. But until that happens, I still love him the same. Up until this point, it's all just negotiations. I didn't like the way they conducted themselves in Marner camp, but that's fairly minor in the grand scheme of things.

He's one of the best young players in the league, very easy to like as a person, insanely entertaining on the ice. I'm not going to lose sight of that because the negotiations have been rough before they even cost us anything.

 

[Nooodles]

I have the same position still. If we walk into camp without Marner, I'll hold that against him. If we walk into the season without him, I'll definitely hold that against him. But until that happens, I still love him the same. Up until this point, it's all just negotiations. I didn't like the way they conducted themselves in Marner camp, but that's fairly minor in the grand scheme of things.

He's one of the best young players in the league, very easy to like as a person, insanely entertaining on the ice. I'm not going to lose sight of that because the negotiations have been rough before they even cost us anything.

How dare you being rationale?!

You go hate him and his family! You must take it personally!

 

[hotpaws]

This doesn't make sense. Reports said that there were significant interest in offer sheeting Matthews. If he wanted to, he could have waited until the offseason and effectively held the Leafs hostage until he got whatever he wanted. Instead he signed early.

It was a rich contract, but Matthews still took the road that paid him less.

there were reports of ''significant interest'' in offer sheeting all the major ufa's yet none of them received a monster offer sheet

yet you're still saying Mathews would have received some mystical enormous offer than would have justified the Dube's signing him to the most player friendly deal in the league

but hey who gives a damn how much Dubas overpays players since the goal of a Leaf fan isn't to want what's best for the team but to make excuses for their mgmt's incompetence

 

[A1LeafNation]

Anathasiou and Anderson and Gaudreau signed in October. Just saying.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Anathasiou and Anderson and Gaudreau signed in October. Just saying.

And our other special boy signed when...in November? (Nylander)

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

And our other special boy signed when...in November? (Nylander)

Pretty much December really.