Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[18leafsfan18]

So you 100% agree that term should affect aav... but for some reason that just doesn’t apply to matthews. That sure makes sense.

Got it.

Didn't say that at all. I literally posted it for you again.

How can you be so wrong when it's literally posted twice.

 

[biotk]

Might as well just offer him a 4 year deal at that point. It would end the same way but at least it would be cheaper for the Leafs.

He would probably demand 11.6 on 4 year deal.

We offer him 10x3, his QO is 11 mill and it walks him right into UFA.

His qualifying offer would be whatever his final season salary is. For instance Werenski at 4, 4 and 7 will have QO of 7. Marner would probably demand the 10x3 deal be something like 8, 8 and 14.

8.7x3 for Marner is too high as is. He's not worth 3.7 mill more than Werenski on the same term. At best he's worth like 2-2.5 mill more, which puts him at 7-7.5 mill.

That's what he gets for waiting. It turns against you just as fast as it works in your favour.

I agree. If I were the Leafs I would pull any deal off the table, say you had your chance, and now with no teams having any cap space we are going back to slightly less ridiculous offers. 7x3, 9.5x6, 10.5x8.

 

[Stephen]

A bigger question is whether a maximize your dollars at all cost player is a suitable building block for the organization?

You often hear Bruins guys talk about how they’ve all taken a *little* less to stay together and win a la Shanahan’s comments.

 

[Nineteen67]

not trying to be a dick, but insurance against what? if he has no salary, there is nothing to insure.

Future salary. College athletes buy insurance against future earnings in case they get hurt and can’t play.

He may need some basic medical insurance to cover medical expenses if he goes to Europe.

 

[ACC1224]

A bigger question is whether a maximize your dollars at all cost player is a suitable building block for the organization?

You often hear Bruins guys talk about how they’ve all taken a *little* less to stay together and win a la Shanahan’s comments.

Perhaps the Leaf players will/have as well?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The Bruins have that model because they’ve been willing to walk away from a ton of guys over the years over difficult negotiations.

And it hasn't exactly worked out for them every time. For every Kessel and Hamilton there is a Seguin and Thornton.

Otherwise the only times they've really done it is if a lesser player is asking for too much money or they were otherwise too strapped against the cap to be able to afford a new contract for the guy (Lucic, Boychuk, etc.). Those are a lot easier decisions to make.

But sure if we can find a stupid and desperate GM willing to overpay to acquire Marner, I think the Leafs should consider moving him.

 

[baton elevated]

The Bruins have that model because they’ve been willing to walk away from a ton of guys over the years over difficult negotiations.

This is my point. Jumbo, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton etc etc and they don't miss a beat. No player is above the team.

 

[Notsince67]

Obviously, the other team would have to value marner high enough to give up a 1st. pairing defender.

Depend on the different positions posters take with regards to marner, some teams would give up any player on their team if they believe he's equivalent to Matthews. So if that is one's position, (I believe you are in this camp) you could name probably at least 15 #1 defenders in the league, and that defender would be making much less than the amount Matthews is making (the amount some suggest marner is holding out for).

I'd probably take one of those, in addition to that player I'd have cap room left to address defenders going forward. If they over pay on marner someone has to go in the next couple of years on defense and they will have to back fill with prospects or depth defenders.

If his value isn't that high, you shouldn't give in to his demand but if he won't budge you move him for valuable assets, which could include a combination of players, picks, prospects. Without much thought a defender, prospect and pick from Carolina might work ('Canes have an extra 1st.). You could go around the league looking for a similar return.

I'd rather marner signs to a workable contract in Toronto, but if it just doesn't work (and there is a point where it won't) you move on and put the franchise 1st., as all team fans should demand.


EDIT: Seems like a good poll question, Would you trade Marner if it made the team better? Y/N

Top defenders are really hard to find. Most teams would be seeking a premium unless they openly coveted a player. Nit a lot of teams have a surplus.

 

[Legion34]

I just hope he signs last.

Give us a better idea about the rest of the market

 

[ACC1224]

I just hope he signs last.

Give us a better idea about the rest of the market

I hope he signs today

 

[ToDavid]

I'm not sure why people fret so much over this Europe stuff. Whether it's a bluff or not, who cares. Until a contract is signed Mitch Marner is not practicing or playing for the Leafs, that's all that matters. Where he's located until that happens is irrelevant.

In fact, practicing with a European professional team is probably one of the best places for him to be.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

According to Mirtle the Leafs were already offering 8.7Mx3 around a month ago. Leafs will be lucky if he signs for under 10x3. I would rather him sit the season.

We really haven't heard much though.

Wow - I must have missed that news. Can you share? Maybe I've been just tuning this out more than I realized though.

T - 5 and counting for a pre training camp signing ......

 

[Legion34]

I hope he signs today

And watch everyone else sign for less?

Dubas has been fine with contracts. But he looks for comaparables and signs within them. Often at the upper end.

We don’t have real comparables for marner right now. Especially not on 3 year deals. I would be more comfortable waiting to see what marner. Point etc sign for at this point

 

[baton elevated]

And it hasn't exactly worked out for them every time. For every Kessel and Hamilton there is a Seguin and Thornton.

No it hasn't worked for them everytime, agreed. But as a whole they don't let players bully them into a deal they regret.
It doesn't affect their success either way.
In the last 50 years the Bruins have appeared in probably 10 SC finals..........the Leafs 0. Embarrassing.

 

[nuck]

Wow - I must have missed that news. Can you share? Maybe I've been just tuning this out more than I realized though.

T - 5 and counting for a pre training camp signing ......

From Aug 6th. 3 x $10 = bridge

James Mirtle of The Athletic wrote on Friday that the Maple Leafs have offered Marner between just under $9 million to roughly $11 million per season on his new deal based on term. Mirtle writes that the Leafs have discussed three, six and seven-year deals with Marner’s camp, who are thought to be uninterested in the max eight-year term.
Mirtle adds that the "general consensus" is that Marner's camp initially asked for Auston Matthews' contract - a five-year deal at a $11.6 million cap hit - before countering an eight-year offer from the Leafs with a three-year, $30 million bridge contract.

 

[18leafsfan18]

No it hasn't worked for them everytime, agreed. But as a whole they don't let players bully them into a deal they regret.
It doesn't affect their success either way.
In the last 50 years the Bruins have appeared in probably 10 SC finals..........the Leafs 0. Embarrassing.

Are you saying Marner is going to sign then get traded ?

 

[ACC1224]

And watch everyone else sign for less?

Dubas has been fine with contracts. But he looks for comaparables and signs within them. Often at the upper end.

We don’t have real comparables for marner right now. Especially not on 3 year deals. I would be more comfortable waiting to see what marner. Point etc sign for at this point

I trust Dubas to make a deal that will makes sense for the Leafs.
I don't worry about what other teams do.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He would probably demand 11.6 on 4 year deal.

And he would be sitting out the season if he even remotely thought that he was worth that. That would be like saying he's worth on par to McDavid if he took what he was worth.

His qualifying offer would be whatever his final season salary is. For instance Werenski at 4, 4 and 7 will have QO of 7. Marner would probably demand the 10x3 deal be something like 8, 8 and 14.

His QO would be 110% of his last year though. So for Werenski it would be 7.7 mill or for Marner it would be 15.4 mill... Which is ridiculous and the Leafs would never go for that 8,8,14 deal.

I agree. If I were the Leafs I would pull any deal off the table, say you had your chance, and now with no teams having any cap space we are going back to slightly less ridiculous offers. 7x3, 9.5x6, 10.5x8.

And he would probably have eternal spite for Dubas and the rest of the management team for recanting their offers and prolonging things... Even though it is 100% his (and his rep team's) fault. That's assuming they are even willing to change their minds about that 8.7x3 mill offer.

Honestly, I am okay with that. Assuming he wants the 3 year deal, that should give the Leafs at least 2 years to try and mend the fences or the Leafs can look at trade offers to move on from him... Because the fact of the matter is that as long as the have the rest of the squad (Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly, Andersen, etc.), they are going to be good enough to win the cup without him.

 

[ACC1224]

Wow - I must have missed that news. Can you share? Maybe I've been just tuning this out more than I realized though.

T - 5 and counting for a pre training camp signing ......

I don't put much stock into the 'feeling' or 'sources tell us' statements these guys tend to make.
Unless they're direct quotes from those involved, i take them with a grain of salt.

 

[baton elevated]

Are you saying Marner is going to sign then get traded ?

No, not saying that at all. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[ToDavid]

No it hasn't worked for them everytime, agreed. But as a whole they don't let players bully them into a deal they regret.
It doesn't affect their success either way.
In the last 50 years the Bruins have appeared in probably 10 SC finals..........the Leafs 0. Embarrassing.

You can't possibly know that. The Bruins have been well run, there's no arguing that, but that doesn't change the fact that those are some terrible trades. Seguin, Thornton, etc. could very well have put them in the top tier of this generation with the Penguins and Blackhawks.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

From Aug 6th. 3 x $10 = bridge

James Mirtle of The Athletic wrote on Friday that the Maple Leafs have offered Marner between just under $9 million to roughly $11 million per season on his new deal based on term. Mirtle writes that the Leafs have discussed three, six and seven-year deals with Marner’s camp, who are thought to be uninterested in the max eight-year term.

Mirtle adds that the "general consensus" is that Marner's camp initially asked for Auston Matthews' contract - a five-year deal at a $11.6 million cap hit - before countering an eight-year offer from the Leafs with a three-year, $30 million bridge contract.

Thank you sir! I saw the info noted in the first paragraph, but not the info in the 2nd paragraph (behind the pay wall perhaps I'd guess).

I do have to wonder about the "general consensus" words/wording though. Just hoping this gets done and we start to focus on the season and actual hockey.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I don't put much stock into the 'feeling' or 'sources tell us' statements these guys tend to make.
Unless they're direct quotes from those involved, i take them with a grain of salt.

Ya, I understand that sentiment. The use of the term "general consensus" (per #247) was noteworthy I thought.

 

[Cor]

Lol

 

[Legion34]

From Aug 6th. 3 x $10 = bridge

James Mirtle of The Athletic wrote on Friday that the Maple Leafs have offered Marner between just under $9 million to roughly $11 million per season on his new deal based on term. Mirtle writes that the Leafs have discussed three, six and seven-year deals with Marner’s camp, who are thought to be uninterested in the max eight-year term.
Mirtle adds that the "general consensus" is that Marner's camp initially asked for Auston Matthews' contract - a five-year deal at a $11.6 million cap hit - before countering an eight-year offer from the Leafs with a three-year, $30 million bridge contract.

That one wasn’t quite accurate. Mirtle reported in person on his last podcast. That he was at 8.7 x 3