Tribute Marner Appreciation Thread

[Zybalto]

19-2 over 10 periods. I'm confident in saying that it takes a team effort to play that poorly. Or are you going to say that it's the goalies fault that we only scored 2 goals in the most important 10 periods over those 4 years?

Vasi is a great goalie, no argument from me there. As far as Korpisalo goes though, our goaltending was very good in those playoffs overall and we made the CLB goalies look good by shooting the puck into their stomach or missing the empty net etc.

Agree to disagree.

All good.

I just think there's a dynamic of the Leafs having no playoff goalies up against stud playoff goalkeeping in big games and there's a confidence thing also in play when our keeper gives up yet another softie, etc. and then it leads the fanbase to crap on good pieces of our team.

I mean, Gallant only gets praise last season if Shesterkin has the best goaltending season since Hasek right? The guy somehow got an Adams award nomination because of it like he's somehow a goalie whisperer (that failed to work on the backup who was .40 points lower).

Just hope we have a healthy Murray who has walked the walk in the playoffs this go around.

 

[Gary Nylund]

All good.

I just think there's a dynamic of the Leafs having no playoff goalies up against stud playoff goalkeeping in big games and there's a confidence thing also in play when our keeper gives up yet another softie, etc. and then it leads the fanbase to crap on good pieces of our team.

I mean, Gallant only gets praise last season if Shesterkin has the best goaltending season since Hasek right? The guy somehow got an Adams award nomination because of it like he's somehow a goalie whisperer (that failed to work on the backup who was .40 points lower).

Just hope we have a healthy Murray who has walked the walk in the playoffs this go around.

IMHO, 2 goals in 10 periods just doesn't cut it and can't be blamed on goaltending, period.

If a softie means that the rest of the team starts playing like crap, then the rest of the team is mentally weak.

Good goalies pick up their team sometimes but good teams do the same for their goalies, they don't just fold when a softie goes in. And they especially don't fold in a game 7, no matter what the circumstances.

We've discussed this before and I don't think we're ever going to agree. From where I sit, there is no way that scoring only 2 goals in 10 periods can be blamed on the goaltending.

 

[ACC1224]

Combined Goalie Discussion thread

New thread to discuss all the ongoing Goalie conversations in one location, Here is the comparison of Leafs goalies the past 3 years under Keefe, and ranked on SV% and GAA vs. Leafs new additions.. NHL overall ranking in column #1. Ranked high to low. Surprisingly Jack Campbell edged out...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Notsince67]

interesting vid

 

[666]

While I agree a good center generally drives a lines offense.

Leafs already have 2 X $11 mil centres and Leafs management's must believe Marner needs an elite #1 C to help drive a lines offense and prop up Marner's playmaking abilities.

I have suggested Leafs should have 1 X $11 mil player on their own lines, building a strong top 9 and balancing the Cap, but then it would likely be Nylander that would be the 3rd centre.

This idea of an $11M player on each of the top three lines is stupid. You end up with with either an $11M player getting reduced ice-time or 3rd line quality players getting way too much ice time.

 

[ACC1224]

interesting vid

Great video, thanks for adding it.

 

[Zybalto]

IMHO, 2 goals in 10 periods just doesn't cut it and can't be blamed on goaltending, period.

If a softie means that the rest of the team starts playing like crap, then the rest of the team is mentally weak.

Good goalies pick up their team sometimes but good teams do the same for their goalies, they don't just fold when a softie goes in. And they especially don't fold in a game 7, no matter what the circumstances.

We've discussed this before and I don't think we're ever going to agree. From where I sit, there is no way that scoring only 2 goals in 10 periods can be blamed on the goaltending.

.....and yet 4 goals in 9 periods of final games winning every game makes you clutch and wins you a cup right? (As Tampa did in 2021 to close out the last 3 series)

I'm not dismissing blown chances and I think you are being ungenerous to just how well other goalies have played but I really don't think there are comparable soft goals given up by successful teams. Those are almost always season killers in big playoff games.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner is the best player we have. He plays PK, he's a PP catalyst, he plays defensively strong, he carries the offense. Whichever center he is with seems to be playing well. Coincidence? Don't think so.

How many of the guys on the list above play PK regularly?

Yep, there's a lot to consider, like who scores the least?

 

[Gary Nylund]

.....and yet 4 goals in 9 periods of final games winning every game makes you clutch and wins you a cup right? (As Tampa did in 2021 to close out the last 3 series)

I'm not dismissing blown chances and I think you are being ungenerous to just how well other goalies have played but I really don't think there are comparable soft goals given up by successful teams. Those are almost always season killers in big playoff games.

You realize 4 goals in 9 periods is more than twice the production of 2 goals in 10 periods right?

When I say we made the CLB goalies look amazing with our poor finishing, that's not being ungenerous, it's being truthful.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's interesting to note that we've actually outplayed our opponents 5v5 in 4 out of our 5 winner-take-all games. And we have a net even goal differential on special teams in those 5 games, so that hasn't even really been a factor.

What has been a factor is us ending up on the wrong side of an 11-4 goal differential at 5v5 despite this, pretty much entirely because our opponents have put up 0.966 goaltending (+4.01 GSAx) at 5v5, while our goalies have put up 0.903 goaltending (-2.91 GSAx) at 5v5 - often letting in early stinkers that have played right into the hands of some of the best defensive teams in the league getting some of the best goaltending possible.

 

[Canadian Finn]

trade him while he's worth something.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

trade him while he's worth something.

Post a trade suggestion with two sides and picks involved if you have the cajònes.

 

[Notsince67]

trade him while he's worth something.

I agree. I think the optimum time will be around 34 years old.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Post a trade suggestion with two sides and picks involved if you have the cajònes.

Marner's not getting traded so just for fun ... Panarin, Kakko and Shesterkin for Marner, Murray and Robertson.

I think the salaries are about even. Is anyone getting hosed here? Is Marner so godlike that people wouldn't trade him for the entire Ranger roster?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Marner's not getting traded so just for fun ... Panarin, Kakko and Shesterkin for Marner, Murray and Robertson.

I think the salaries are about even. Is anyone getting hosed here? Is Marner so godlike that people wouldn't trade him for the entire Ranger roster?

This wasn't directed at you so your proposal is not taken seriously. That's a video game trade if I ever saw one. Rangers hard pass and Huey Dubas and the News try again.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This wasn't directed at you so your proposal is not taken seriously. That's a video game trade if I ever saw one. Rangers hard pass and Huey Dubas and the News try again.

Aren't all Marner trade proposals going to pretty much be video game trade proposals?

So hard pass from the Rags, interesting. What if Murray and Shesterkin each have 20 more starts this season, and their SV% are still .921% and .914% like they are now, do the Rangers still laugh before hanging up the phone? I'm just curious because from my POV, the fact that Murray is such a big question mark would indeed be a problem in this scenario but if Murray keeps up the good work, the value of this package goes way up. And at that point, it's probably the Leafs that pass.

Are you even sure the Leafs would do this deal today? Or is it a case where both teams love their own players so both sides say no?

 

[Notsince67]

Marner's not getting traded so just for fun ... Panarin, Kakko and Shesterkin for Marner, Murray and Robertson.

I think the salaries are about even. Is anyone getting hosed here? Is Marner so godlike that people wouldn't trade him for the entire Ranger roster?

Why would the leafs be interested in the entire Ranger Roster? They can only ice 5 players plus a goalie at one time.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Aren't all Marner trade proposals going to pretty much be video game trade proposals?

So hard pass from the Rags, interesting. What if Murray and Shesterkin each have 20 more starts this season, and their SV% are still .921% and .914% like they are now, do the Rangers still laugh before hanging up the phone? I'm just curious because from my POV, the fact that Murray is such a big question mark would indeed be a problem in this scenario but if Murray keeps up the good work, the value of this package goes way up. And at that point, it's probably the Leafs that pass.

Are you even sure the Leafs would do this deal today? Or is it a case where both teams love their own players so both sides say no?

I'm more of the opinion Marner won't be up for trade until he is on his next contract in his 30's as well. I asked for realistic trades not food for thought and comparing an aged Murray and a top 3 goalie in the league.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner's not getting traded so just for fun ... Panarin, Kakko and Shesterkin for Marner, Murray and Robertson.

I think the salaries are about even. Is anyone getting hosed here? Is Marner so godlike that people wouldn't trade him for the entire Ranger roster?

Fox for marner?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why would the leafs be interested in the entire Ranger Roster? They can only ice 5 players plus a goalie at one time.

It wasn't meant to be taken literally, wasn't that obvious? But if you do want to be serious, then NHL roster players have value so in theory, you could trade them all for picks, no? So a better question would be why would the Rangers trade their entire roster for 3 players, even if one of them was the superhuman Mitch (money) Marner?

I read a book many years ago that told a cool story - way back when, the NY GM called up Chicago and offered up what on the surface, seemed like an enormous all-star package but the package he wanted back included a young player who wasn't a star yet, but was obviously highly regarded. The CHI GM answered nice try, but I wouldn't give you Bobby hull if you offered me your entire roster, and threw in Madison Square Garden.

I always remembered that for some reason and thought it was a fun story. And I also think that some people overvalue Marner to the point where they would refuse any offers that weren't over the top ridiculous. But that's also understandable as fans tend to fall in love with their own stars.

I'm more of the opinion Marner won't be up for trade until he is on his next contract in his 30's as well. I asked for realistic trades not food for thought and comparing an aged Murray and a top 3 goalie in the league.

I don't think the value is that far off actually. And goalie valuations can change in a big hurry. Anyhow, I'm just bored and killing some time here, didn't mean to upset anyone. But if my proposal is so awful, can you give me an example of a more realistic one? Not so easy, is it?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I don't think the value is that far off actually. And goalie valuations can change in a big hurry. Anyhow, I'm just bored and killing some time here, didn't mean to upset anyone. But if my proposal is so awful, can you give me an example of a more realistic one? Not so easy, is it?

Depends on the conference Gary.

-Marner, Engvall and Sandin

Colorado sends

-Rantanen and a 3rd

Marner, Woll and a 4th

Buffalo sends

-Tage Thompson and a bag of pucks.

Has to be a blockbuster these days.

 

[Zybalto]

You realize 4 goals in 9 periods is more than twice the production of 2 goals in 10 periods right?

When I say we made the CLB goalies look amazing with our poor finishing, that's not being ungenerous, it's being truthful.

I thought Korpisalo made some ludicrous saves in the series including one of the saves of the playoffs in game 5 but positioning also played a part of it too. A guy that in the zone can make any team look bad including while he's setting records against the champs the next round.

....and both goal totals are putrid, it's just one team had a goalie and one didn't. I really don't think we were 2 goals in 3 games away from a cup run with what we had in net but that level of production worked fine for the Bolts.

It's why Murray is an intriguing choice but has to stay healthy. He's been at that level in the playoffs (and Samsonov was good in the last playoffs too)

 

[Notsince67]

It wasn't meant to be taken literally, wasn't that obvious? But if you do want to be serious, then NHL roster players have value so in theory, you could trade them all for picks, no? So a better question would be why would the Rangers trade their entire roster for 3 players, even if one of them was the superhuman Mitch (money) Marner?

I read a book many years ago that told a cool story - way back when, the NY GM called up Chicago and offered up what on the surface, seemed like an enormous all-star package but the package he wanted back included a young player who wasn't a star yet, but was obviously highly regarded. The CHI GM answered nice try, but I wouldn't give you Bobby hull if you offered me your entire roster, and threw in Madison Square Garden.

I always remembered that for some reason and thought it was a fun story. And I also think that some people overvalue Marner to the point where they would refuse any offers that weren't over the top ridiculous. But that's also understandable as fans tend to fall in love with their own stars.


I don't think the value is that far off actually. And goalie valuations can change in a big hurry. Anyhow, I'm just bored and killing some time here, didn't mean to upset anyone. But if my proposal is so awful, can you give me an example of a more realistic one? Not so easy, is it?

You miss a greater point and that is the opportunity cost of any rostered individual. Looking at each player as a commoditized widget might make sense if you are a player agent but given the real constraints of an actual game, it is hard to make sense that even 2 players are better than one when you have only one open position. Taken even further (as you did), sure you can get into some academic game of drafting players from active teams to come up with a fantasy roster but then who is the one being unreasonable and unrealistic? You are playing a disingenuous game of "what ifs" and are suggesting that it is others who are far too biased to be as smart as you. Hope you enjoy the little game you are playing with yourself.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Depends on the conference Gary.

-Marner, Engvall and Sandin

Colorado sends

-Rantanen and a 3rd

Marner, Woll and a 4th

Buffalo sends

-Tage Thompson and a bag of pucks.

Has to be a blockbuster these days.

I'm surprised you think both Thompson and Rantanen are more valuable than Marner.

You miss a greater point and that is the opportunity cost of any rostered individual. Looking at each player as a commoditized widget might make sense if you are a player agent but given the real constraints of an actual game, it is hard to make sense that even 2 players are better than one when you have only one open position. Taken even further (as you did), sure you can get into some academic game of drafting players from active teams to come up with a fantasy roster but then who is the one being unreasonable and unrealistic? You are playing a disingenuous game of "what ifs" and are suggesting that it is others who are far too biased to be as smart as you. Hope you enjoy the little game you are playing with yourself.

What are you on about dude?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I'm surprised you think both Thompson and Rantanen are more valuable than Marner.

That wasn't the implication you are being disingenuous. I offered conference selection.

Any other proposals or is this going to be a game of alert tag until puck drop?