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Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2021/22 PART III

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Oscar Peterson said:
Lol, what's laughable is your reading comprehension. You're arguing with your own conception of "hockey fans" (which is just bizarre) rather than anything I have actually posted. Again, you haven't even read the article I was referencing nor seem to grasp the nuance of it. Self belief is knowing what your potential and the confidence that you're capable of achieving it. Thinking that opportunity is something you are owed rather than earn has nothing to do with self-belief. And please point to me one person who has ever said that believing in oneself is bad? Newsflash, all NHL players believe in themselves, without it they would have never got to the top level.
Leafs front-office clearly has a lot of faith in Robertson and are invested in his future, for him to feel slighted about playing in the AHL rather than recognizing it as an opportunity for him to develop and work on his weaknesses is not the right attitude for hitting his ceiling as a player, imo. And it seems that he wants to be traded to another organization rather than force himself into the line up one day.
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:laugh::laugh:

i read the article and he definitely did not come across as feeling like he’s owed anything. Believes he played well enough to stay up with the leafs and I have no issue with that. Ask any player if they are happy to be down in the AHL the answer is no, they all want to be up in the NHL. They all believe they can contribute in the NHL. So again I say, you taking a quote from the article, perceiving it as cockiness is right in line with what a majority of fans do. When there was nothing cocky about any of his comments. He just said he felt like he played good enough to be with the leafs full time.

any person who’s has attainted a taste of what they’ve been dreaming of and then having it taken away from them even if for their own benefit will feel slighted. But hey I don’t really expect you to understand that if you’ve never really been in that position in sports.

And again to answer your original question, yes you are reading/thinking to deep into his quotes. Why? Because it is hockey culture that if someone says anything along those lines they are deemed ungrateful, cocky, unwilling to grind it out. However you want to put it. That’s where I’m equating the issue between hockey fans and hockey players publicly speaking out about what’s on their mind and why they don’t do articles like the ones Robertson did because fans will take it out of context (just like you did).

however there’s this weird aura in the hockey world where you have to accept everything as is, keep your mouth shut and not say anything that is on your mind. I don’t blame Robertson, there was a big gap on the left wing and he wanted one of the spots and he’s frustrated he didn’t get one. That is real emotion, again nothing wrong with him expressing that. Especially if he feels he’s NHL ready.


Additionally in another article with leafs nation, he literally says quote, “my goal is to get called up” so I’m not sure where you’re getting he wants to be traded
 
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Leafed said:
Thanks for sharing

Looks like the Habs signed the Youtuber in Jan '21

Habs make Yannick St-Pierre (Draft Dynasty YouTube Channel) a video scout

He also predicts the Leafs goalie draft strategy for the next two years at 3:59 of the video you shared
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Oh shit. Good for him

Ya I loved watching his videos. He has a good eye for the game.

It is funny how he mentions Ovchinikov as being a player that could be selected as a hidden gem because of his size and late birthdate, and how this was how that strategy was successful with Nick Robertson. The Video was made pre-draft so the TML connection was not there yet.

He also referenced his pre-draft pts/game in the MHL and compared it to Rodian Amirov and other prominent Russian players. SO clearly this guy thinks the game along the same lines as our scouting staff.

I also love the strategy of drafting 1 goalie in the middle to late rounds. Like Yannick said in the video, Russia is just a complete gold mine for talented tendies. They can also be overlooked in comparison to other goalies in other leagues based on the lack of transfer agreement between the 2 leagues. His philosophy on selecting 1 Russian goalie a year makes complete sense to me. The Leafs seem to agree with this type of logic as well.

I think what is cool about Yannick's story is that he is clearly just a fan of the game. But his perspective on the game is still immensely valuable. I think when an organization shows no ego and is willing to look outside of the old boys club mindset, that is when you see an organization succeed. You need to make decisions with all opinions/philosophies explored. I am actually surprised MTL was the team to hire him. They seem like the least progressive organization in the league.

You can tell Kyle has respect for all types of opinions. He never played the game at a high level, and knows that doesn't need to be a prerequisite for being able to spot talent. Kyle has a nose for talent that we've never seen before in a GM with the Leafs IMO.

I think that is also why I love the Dmitri Ovchinikov pick as much as I do. Kyle and company loved him enough to acquire a pick to select him, and they obviously made their stance clear to Dmitri on what they feel he is capable of. Russian talents do not leave Russia if they do not think they will be given an opportunity.
 
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zeke said:
Get all our Russian kids over here asap
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Abramov, Gogolev, Amirov, Ovchinikov, SDA....

maybe we can even convince one of Peksa or Akhtyamov to come over????

It's actually a pretty smart strategy. One of the biggest hurdles on bringing Russian players over to develop in NA is the cultural differences. Obviously the money is the other.

Having a host of Russian players on the Marlies, and in the city of Toronto will make that transition much easier. Even if one of them gets called up, they will still have their countrymen in the same city to surround themselves with. For example, I am fairly confident Sandin and Liljegren used to hang out with Willy even when they were on the Marlies. That can go a long way in making that transition easier.

Russia is undeniably one of the best hockey nations in the world, and they have some of the best talent outside of the NHL. Most of which would likely never consider playing in the minors. Having Amirov and Ovchinikov sign ELC deals with us and choosing to develop with us over their Russian clubs is just more evidence that our management group has their shit together IMO. Not an easy thing to do. Especially for a guy like Ovchinikov who is still years away from the NHL.
 
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Guys Christmas came early. We might get both Ov and Amirov on the Marlies this year. :banana::banana:
 

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I doubt it was talked about here but with Cooley changing his school to Minnesota, Knies could be playing with him next year (they played together at the WJC).

There's no way he'd play with a guy as good as Cooley on the Marlies. Could be a factor of him staying for his sophomore season.
 
Morgs said:
I doubt it was talked about here but with Cooley changing his school to Minnesota, Knies could be playing with him next year (they played together at the WJC).

There's no way he'd play with a guy as good as Cooley on the Marlies. Could be a factor of him staying for his sophomore season.
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I think I am OK with that TBH. As much as I love Knies, and I think he could step into NHL action right now, I want him to be a force when he arrives. I don't want him to just survive.

I also think we are at the point where we can almost certainly predict Amirov, Robertson and Knies will all be Maple Leafs at some point. Or on a NHL roster. When you factor in Neimela as well, there could be 4 ELC contracts expiring + Sandin and Liljegren coming out of bridge deals and needing to resign the core 4 (less JT I guess) all at once.

It's a lot of moving parts in my brain to formulate all at once, but that 2025 offseason is already shaping up to be a nightmare with Mitch, JT, Robertson, and likely Timmy and Sandin coming out of their bridges if they sign 2 year bridges. Staggering Knies deal would help a bit long term.

It's way above my pay grade, which by the way is nothing. I just hope they have a strategy that extends beyond winning just this year and next. We have one of the best core groups in the NHL already and some really really good pieces up and coming. If they were to hit, we could be a very good team for a very long time if we play our cards right. I just think part of that includes the management of ELC deals. They need to have a 5 year strategy IMO. Shouldn't be very hard to formulate one given MLSE's resources and knowledge of the cap.
 
Twine Tickler said:
I think I am OK with that TBH. As much as I love Knies, and I think he could step into NHL action right now, I want him to be a force when he arrives. I don't want him to just survive.

I also think we are at the point where we can almost certainly predict Amirov, Robertson and Knies will all be Maple Leafs at some point. Or on a NHL roster. When you factor in Neimela as well, there could be 4 ELC contracts expiring + Sandin and Liljegren coming out of bridge deals and needing to resign the core 4 (less JT I guess) all at once.

It's a lot of moving parts in my brain to formulate all at once, but that 2025 offseason is already shaping up to be a nightmare with Mitch, JT, Robertson, and likely Timmy and Sandin coming out of their bridges if they sign 2 year bridges. Staggering Knies deal would help a bit long term.

It's way above my pay grade, which by the way is nothing. I just hope they have a strategy that extends beyond winning just this year and next. We have one of the best core groups in the NHL already and some really really good pieces up and coming. If they were to hit, we could be a very good team for a very long time if we play our cards right. I just think part of that includes the management of ELC deals. They need to have a 5 year strategy IMO. Shouldn't be very hard to formulate one given MLSE's resources and knowledge of the cap.
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I second the post too. I think transitioning Amirov and Knies into the Leafs lineup after next season is the best option for us. Not only does it help space out our ELCs (which is very important), it allows some of our other prospects who are a little further along the pro-chain (guys like Steeves, Abramov, Kral, SDA, Holmberg, Robertson, etc.) to slot in next year and potentially allow us to plug in holes long term for the bottom 6.

Like @Twine Tickler mentioned in this post, the 2025 offseason will get a bit messy for us potentially. The way Dubas and company have signed the deals so far is nice because both the Muzzin/Brodie contracts will be up along with Mrazk which will free up around 13 mil in cap space the prior offseason with Matthews/Nylander coming up as UFA. We can easily accommodate their pay raises that season and whatever is leftover can go towards resigning Lilly/Sandy. JT shouldn't get a massive contract on his next deal and whatever we save on his deal probably goes to pay for Mitch.

I think the biggest key for us (assuming Dubas and Co. aren't getting canned by that point) is that in the 2024 and 2025 offseasons if we play our cards right with our ELCs, we might be able to sneak on another premium piece onto the roster for ($6-8 mil on a short term deal). And that can be huge in the short term. Worst-case scenario, Sandin and Lilly outplay their contracts and deserve big raises, we can keep them around as well with the cap savings from the ELCs.

Players like Knies, Robertson, Amirov IMO are on borrowed time. I think once they ride out their ELCs we're going to pump and dump em for shiny toys to restock the prospect cupboard. Unless one of them really pops and becomes part of the core.

All in all, very exciting times ahead!

2022-23
Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - JT - Nylander
Kase - Kampf - Steeves
Engvall - Brooks - Simmonds
Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Lilly
Muzzin - Dermott
Kral

Will probably see Abramov, SDA, Ho-Sang in the mix too.

2023-24
Kase - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - JT - Nylander
Knies - Abramov - Amirov
Engvall - Kampf - Steeves
Brooks

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Lilly
Muzzin - Niemela
Kral
 
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i feel like we might see abruzzese again on the intl stage very soon. i wouldn't be surprised that he gets invited to the worlds this year.
knies might also, but i think he might turn it down given the WJC are rescheduled for august.
 
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Morgs said:
I doubt it was talked about here but with Cooley changing his school to Minnesota, Knies could be playing with him next year (they played together at the WJC).

There's no way he'd play with a guy as good as Cooley on the Marlies. Could be a factor of him staying for his sophomore season.
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I think regardless Knies would.be heading back for another NCAA season. He's not a finished product yet, and it's what's best for his development. The Cooley thing is just another benefit.

Very excited about having Knies in the Leafs system
 
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kerk said:


Abramov not in the lineup. he had played in every game prior. hate to see that. unless he's injured not sure why he'd be left out
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something likely will have to give in the coming days/weeks. Ovchinikov should be here in the next couple weeks as well, and surely they'll be looking to get him some game time.

Feels like a Ritchie trade is immanent. Also feel like Abramov, Anderson, and SDA could be guys that go the other way in a package. They have minimal value by themselves, but they could be used in addition to a main piece as a sweetener in a trade. With Liljegren technically being "down" with the Marlies, there is no way that continues for longer than a couple games. And the idea of rotating Timmy and Rasmus on and off the active roster for cap reasons alone is terrible. Something is going to give sooner rather then later

interesting days ahead for sure
 
Twine Tickler said:
something likely will have to give in the coming days/weeks. Ovchinikov should be here in the next couple weeks as well, and surely they'll be looking to get him some game time.

Feels like a Ritchie trade is immanent. Also feel like Abramov, Anderson, and SDA could be guys that go the other way in a package. They have minimal value by themselves, but they could be used in addition to a main piece as a sweetener in a trade. With Liljegren technically being "down" with the Marlies, there is no way that continues for longer than a couple games. And the idea of rotating Timmy and Rasmus on and off the active roster for cap reasons alone is terrible. Something is going to give sooner rather then later

interesting days ahead for sure
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liljegren was only down cus we claimed brooks. doesn't need to be with the marlies anymore now that brooks was claimed as far as i know.
 
Twine Tickler said:
something likely will have to give in the coming days/weeks. Ovchinikov should be here in the next couple weeks as well, and surely they'll be looking to get him some game time.

Feels like a Ritchie trade is immanent. Also feel like Abramov, Anderson, and SDA could be guys that go the other way in a package. They have minimal value by themselves, but they could be used in addition to a main piece as a sweetener in a trade. With Liljegren technically being "down" with the Marlies, there is no way that continues for longer than a couple games. And the idea of rotating Timmy and Rasmus on and off the active roster for cap reasons alone is terrible. Something is going to give sooner rather then later

interesting days ahead for sure
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Abramov and Anderson should have a fair bit of value to the Leafs. They are both guys who look like they can be valuable bottom 6ers for us in the near future.

SDA is a good enough prospect to use in any kind of trade we should be doing at the TDL. For any team needing a center prospect, you can do a lot worse.
 
stickty111 said:

This is a terrible look for Ritchie.
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Oh he looks so f***ing bad. Not exactly sure how he could look worse than he did with the Leafs, but he could not look less interested. I am pretty sure he hasn't put 2 hands on his stick all night. I've seen better intensity in my beer league. I thought I heard the broadcast say he departed at one point in the game and it had my hopes up that there was a mid game trade. But then his mopey ass hopped over the boards the next minute.

I can understand a player being upset at being down in the minors after being an NHL regular for years, but ultimately he did this to himself. He was given more than a fair shake with the big boys and failed time and time again. You never saw Galchenyuk drag his ass around the ice when he reported to the Marlies last year. He came in, dominated, and was swiftly called up. Not exactly sure why Nick would think that was out of the range of possibilities for him. I have very little sympathy for him at this point TBH.

Just heard now that he has not returned for the 3rd. Hopefully that's a good sign. Please get this guy out of this organization.
 
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