Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2021/22 PART II

[Morgs]

If someone is sent to ECHL for a conditioning stint and play 17 minutes, that doesn not mean he's ready for AHL duty. Especially if he found ECHL competition a challenge.....which Rodion found the VHL.
He'd be treated no different in North America.

If he keeps receiving no/minimum ice time, then you have a legitimate point. But complaining about ice time in the immediate few games after he's been injured for months is ridiculous.
But of course it's the KHL, so there has to be some ulterior motive.

Is Amirov one of the best 6 forwards on UFA? Yes.

Is Kase one of the best 6 forwards on the Leafs? Yes.

If Kase gets injured and comes back after a few months, plays 3 conditioning games in the AHL and then the Leafs play him either a minute or bench him because "they don't see a spot for him", would people complain that we don't have one of the best 6 forwards on the team playing? Yes. Would he want to move? Maybe.

Your "wahhhh everyone hates Russia" garbage is so tiring. If he can play 3 conditioning games, everyone knows he's healthy, and the coach simply won't use him, it's time to get him the f*** away from there. I legit don't see how this is a conversation.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

 

[Zine]

Is Amirov one of the best 6 forwards on UFA? Yes.

Is Kase one of the best 6 forwards on the Leafs? Yes.

If Kase gets injured and comes back after a few months, plays 3 conditioning games in the AHL and then the Leafs play him either a minute or bench him because "they don't see a spot for him", would people complain that we don't have one of the best 6 forwards on the team playing? Yes. Would he want to move? Maybe.

Your "wahhhh everyone hates Russia" garbage is so tiring. If he can play 3 conditioning games, everyone knows he's healthy, and the coach simply won't use him, it's time to get him the f*** away from there. I legit don't see how this is a conversation.

That's all predicated on how Kase looked in the AHL.
Was he his normal self? Was he struggling to keep up? Despite having top 6 talent, was he ready to be a solid contributor for Toronto when he was called up, or was conditioning still a big issue? Maybe he wasn't ready but Toronto called him up as a 13th forward in case of an injury..simply because of his talent.


By Amirov's own admission, he's not there yet. The VHL was a challenge for him - he had 0 points.

Again, give Amirov time. He's working himself into shape. Practicing with players in the 2nd best league in the world. The sky isn't falling.

 

[stickty111]

Leafs need to intervene and get him away from Ufa. The funny thing about the "he is still recovering so he isn't playing" narrative is their coach literally said "well we like our lineup this way so there isn't a spot for Amirov". That statement completely contradicts that. So no recovery reasons isn't the reason he isn't playing. The coach just won't play him.
Ufa is ruining his development and thats just a fact.

 

[stickty111]

Is Amirov one of the best 6 forwards on UFA? Yes.

Is Kase one of the best 6 forwards on the Leafs? Yes.

If Kase gets injured and comes back after a few months, plays 3 conditioning games in the AHL and then the Leafs play him either a minute or bench him because "they don't see a spot for him", would people complain that we don't have one of the best 6 forwards on the team playing? Yes. Would he want to move? Maybe.

Your "wahhhh everyone hates Russia" garbage is so tiring. If he can play 3 conditioning games, everyone knows he's healthy, and the coach simply won't use him, it's time to get him the f*** away from there. I legit don't see how this is a conversation.

Imagine believing he isn't playing because he's getting himself into a game shape. His coach literally gave the opposite reason for why isn't playing. There isn't a debate here. Ufa is messing this up and Leafs need to do something before a year goes by wasting one of our top prospects.

 

[Zine]

Imagine believing he isn't playing because he's getting himself into a game shape. His coach literally gave the opposite reason for why isn't playing. There isn't a debate here. Ufa is messing this up and Leafs need to do something before a year goes by wasting one of our top prospects.

His exclusion is because of game shape. Remember, Amirov's injury has prevented him from exercising. This interview is from a few days ago:

"I have now healed from my injury and have excellent health. But I must get ready to play."
What was the VHL like?
"The first 2 games I was lost. I'll continue to improve game to game. But I really need to work in the gym and gain some functionality"
How difficult was the VHL? I saw that you flubbed that penalty shot.
"The puck just rolled off my stick in the shootout. But in the game I had trouble getting open, knowing where to be, how to play with the puck. I've been slowly getting the feel for the game again. Remembering how to do things.
Амиров: «Во время травмы со мной были на связи врачи и генменеджер «Торонто»

So who to believe about Amirov? A bunch of dudes half-way across the globe whose information comes from twitter snippets in English....or, you know, Rodion Amirov. Cmon, have some patience. Amirov will be fine.

 

[kerk]

The coach didn't see a spot for him because Amirov is not in game shape. Remember, Amirov's injury has prevented him from exercising. This interview is from a few days ago:

"I have now healed from my injury and have excellent health. But I must get ready to play."
What was the VHL like?
"The first 2 games I was lost. I'll continue to improve game to game. But I really need to work in the gym and gain some functionality"
How difficult was the VHL? I saw that you flubbed that penalty shot.
"The puck just rolled off my stick in the shootout. But in the game I had trouble getting open, knowing where to be, how to play with the puck. I've been slowly getting the feel for the game again. Remembering how to do things.
Амиров: «Во время травмы со мной были на связи врачи и генменеджер «Торонто»

So who to believe about Amirov? A bunch of dudes half-way across the globe who have little to no access to information and rely on sensationaist twitter snippets.....or, you know, Rodion Amirov. Cmon, have some patience. Amirov will be fine.

how is he supposed to get back into form as a healthy scratch?

i don't disagree that he should stay in russia, in fact i agree with keeping him over there until he's ready to play in the nhl because it's just a better league than the ahl, but if they're keeping him out of the lineup because he's out of form, they're fumbling how they're going about getting him back into it. if he's not going to be in the lineup in the khl, he should at least be sent down to get his game legs back under him.

 

[Zine]

Probably just by practice and continued gym work. Remeber KHL teams practice way, way more than teams in NHL/AHL.
So Salavat's plan was probably to sent him to VHL to get his hockey blood flowing again, then he was called up to KHL and integrated back into the team this past week (when all 3 games were played).

The next game isn't for a week. So it should give him continued time to work on things; or maybe they send him to the VHL during this timeframe (they have 2 games).

Salavat's next game is against lowly Kunlun so it could be a good opportunity for him to get back into the lineup.

 

[Knies iT]

Imagine believing he isn't playing because he's getting himself into a game shape. His coach literally gave the opposite reason for why isn't playing. There isn't a debate here. Ufa is messing this up and Leafs need to do something before a year goes by wasting one of our top prospects.

Amirov's been doing off-ice conditioning for months and started training less than a month after his injury. He's posted himself doing cardio based work on his IG.

Obviously he's not in ideal game shape considering he's missed several months, but he's also recently played 3 VHL games, a partial KHL game, while also practicing with both clubs for weeks.

As for Amirov's opinion of his situation of Ufa - obviously he's going to speak positively about an org. he is locked into for the rest of this year. He's not going to trash the coach for his usage when he's fighting to earn a role on a loan with no alternative options.. Regardless, a D+2 offensive star shouldn't have to fight for a 13th forward spot after being one of their highest producing forwards in his D+1 during the early season COVID outbreak where he was playing top 6. Podkolzin had an easier time earning minutes on a way deeper club (that's notorious for favouring vets) despite worse production.

 

[Hanji]

It's enlightening to know somebody gets it!
I'll include this.....a tremendously insightful conversation with Rodya. He discusses everything under the sun. Off-ice life, his time in Toronto, Salavat's training process, his coaches, education, life goals, etc. Very astute kid. It's painfully evident he loves the situation in Ufa.

But I guess he's too stupid to know the evil KHL has it out for him because he wants to play in the NHL!. Poor boy.

Amirov may love Ufa, but that doesn’t guarantee it’s the optimal place for development. Perhaps he isn’t as advanced as some believe. He thoroughly **** the bed during the playoffs last year due to lack of physicality. Maybe thats still an issue, particularly after an injury.
The KHL isn’t a development league, they play to win. Ufa does what’s best for Ufa, not Amirov

That said, after what Der-Arguchintsev said about the AHL it gives some credence to the Russian posters who say the AHL is a cesspit for their players’ development.

What a catch 22.

 

[Hanji]

Yes, happens quite often. KHl doesn't like that their players leave so they don't play them. It's beyond stupid given it just ruins the development of their own players that could eventually play for Russia in the Olympics etc.

Then how do you explain Mukhamadullin’s ice time? He has a contract with NJ and is being loaned to Ufa just like Amirov. Or what about the Caps’ Alexeyev last year?
Perhaps Amirov just hasn’t earned his ice time like those other guys. Especially coming off injury. Or maybe Ufa just hates Leaf prospects but loves the Devils and Caps. I suppose that’s just as good of an explanation as claiming the Russians intentionally sabotage their own players for revenge purposes. LOL

 

[supermann_98]

Said it back then and I'll take some flack but I'll say it again, I wish we just took Braden Schneider instead of Amirov.

I'm writing Amirov off until he proves otherwise, he's nothing but a mystery box at the moment, and that hasn't changed much since even before we drafted him.

 

[francis246]

Is Amirov one of the best 6 forwards on UFA? Yes.

Is Kase one of the best 6 forwards on the Leafs? Yes.

If Kase gets injured and comes back after a few months, plays 3 conditioning games in the AHL and then the Leafs play him either a minute or bench him because "they don't see a spot for him", would people complain that we don't have one of the best 6 forwards on the team playing? Yes. Would he want to move? Maybe.

Your "wahhhh everyone hates Russia" garbage is so tiring. If he can play 3 conditioning games, everyone knows he's healthy, and the coach simply won't use him, it's time to get him the f*** away from there. I legit don't see how this is a conversation.

He’s not a top 6 forward on Ufa this year. Go check their roster. They have a lot of veterans and former NHL players this year. The KHL is not a development league, additionally he’s coming off injury and those top 6 players are producing. They aren’t just going to hand him minutes. He still has a lot to prove, he was def a boom or bust pick. But he hasn’t proven that he is a top 6 KHL player thus far in his career

 

[francis246]

Imagine believing he isn't playing because he's getting himself into a game shape. His coach literally gave the opposite reason for why isn't playing. There isn't a debate here. Ufa is messing this up and Leafs need to do something before a year goes by wasting one of our top prospects.

the leafs can’t do anything. Amirov wants to be there. He’s from the city and wants to be at home. Plain and simple. He’s not coming to North America unless he’s playing in the NHL and he’s not making the Maple Leafs next year probably. That is the risk you take with drafting Russians for better and for worse. So they are going to have to be patient with it and see how it plays out.

 

[Stringer Bell]

the leafs can’t do anything. Amirov wants to be there. He’s from the city and wants to be at home. Plain and simple. He’s not coming to North America unless he’s playing in the NHL and he’s not making the Maple Leafs next year probably. That is the risk you take with drafting Russians for better and for worse. So they are going to have to be patient with it and see how it plays out.

Exactly. Sucks, but this is what it is. He has way more potential and pedigree than Korshkov…but you have to hope he doesn’t follow the same path.

 

[Zine]

Said it back then and I'll take some flack but I'll say it again, I wish we just took Braden Schneider instead of Amirov.

I'm writing Amirov off until he proves otherwise, he's nothing but a mystery box at the moment, and that hasn't changed much since even before we drafted him.

Amirov isn't that good. For the 2001s he's not Podkolzin, he's been passed by Chinakhov, and Gritsyuk is currenly looking better than Amirov ever has.
As someone already pointed out, he wilted like a dead flower when things tightened up in the playoffs last year....totally unlike Pod and Chinakhov. He needs to prove he's top 2 line KHL material, because he hasn't shown it on any consistent basis yet. He's shown flashes of great play, but also the opposite too. He really needs to round out his game with some muscle.

But he has the talent to do it. Same for his NHL future which, if he bulks up, can maybe be a servicable 2nd/3rd line guy.

 

[francis246]

Exactly. Sucks, but this is what it is. He has way more potential and pedigree than Korshkov…but you have to hope he doesn’t follow the same path.

for sure, I think Amirov will be an NHL player. He completely dominated against his peers and was a stud with the U-18’s. So he has potential, I don’t think he’s an offensive dynamo but he can be effective. It’s easy to say in hindsight we should have taken Dawson Mercer or Schneider but I like this pick. Just gotta be patient. How long did it take Minny to get Kaprizov over?

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Then how do you explain Mukhamadullin’s ice time? He has a contract with NJ and is being loaned to Ufa just like Amirov. Or what about the Caps’ Alexeyev last year?
Perhaps Amirov just hasn’t earned his ice time like those other guys. Especially coming off injury. Or maybe Ufa just hates Leaf prospects but loves the Devils and Caps. I suppose that’s just as good of an explanation as claiming the Russians intentionally sabotage their own players for revenge purposes. LOL

You quote the wrong post?

 

[VanW27]

for sure, I think Amirov will be an NHL player. He completely dominated against his peers and was a stud with the U-18’s. So he has potential, I don’t think he’s an offensive dynamo but he can be effective. It’s easy to say in hindsight we should have taken Dawson Mercer or Schneider but I like this pick. Just gotta be patient. How long did it take Minny to get Kaprizov over?

Are you honestly comparing Amirov with Kaprizov? Both Russian and played on the same KHL team as 18/19 year-olds but that's where any comparison ends really. The circumstances of them both "taking time to come over" are completely different, Karpizov wanted to finish his KHL contract and step into the NHL as a star.

Amirov is still struggling to find ice time in the KHL as a 20 year old, Kaprizov was a KHL star as a 19 year old and was a full time KHLer as a 17 year old.


Ufa careers at the same age:
18YO
Kaprizov 53GP, 11G, 16A, 27pts
Amirov 21GP, 0G, 2A, 2pts

19YO
Kaprizov 49GP, 20G, 22A, 42pts
Amirov 39GP, 9G, 4A, 13pts

 

[SeaOfBlue]

To me, it just sounds like Amirov should be in North America in one way or another after next year.

It doesn't really matter what the problem/reason is; it won't get solved on a KHL team that doesn't need a top 6 forward and is not dominating enough to roll all 4 lines or taking a risk on a young player with upside. They have bigger things to worry about than developing or giving Amirov opportunities, and said opportunities will only come with injuries or a drop off in play from one of the more known commodities.

There is a legit chance Amirov could be on the Leafs next year anyways. Mikheyev is likely gone. Engvall may be gone. They will likely need to move one of Kase or Ritchie as well. There is going to be a spot for at least one, if not two, cheap guys like Robertson, Amirov, Steeves, or Anderson (or a bargain bin contract of course). If he doesn't crack the lineup and a KHL opportunity is not there for him, it is not like high end Russians flat out hate the AHL. Denisenko is playing in the AHL right now for Florida.

 

[francis246]

Are you honestly comparing Amirov with Kaprizov? Both Russian and played on the same KHL team as 18/19 year-olds but that's where any comparison ends really. The circumstances of them both "taking time to come over" are completely different, Karpizov wanted to finish his KHL contract and step into the NHL as a star.

Amirov is still struggling to find ice time in the KHL as a 20 year old, Kaprizov was a KHL star as a 19 year old and was a full time KHLer as a 17 year old.


Ufa careers at the same age:
18YO
Kaprizov 53GP, 11G, 16A, 27pts
Amirov 21GP, 0G, 2A, 2pts

19YO
Kaprizov 49GP, 20G, 22A, 42pts
Amirov 39GP, 9G, 4A, 13pts

i didnt in anyway compare them as players. I’m comparing their contract situation. Everyone and their mom knows that Amirov is no where near as good as Kaprizov. I think Amirov is third among LW prospects behind Robertson and Knies.

All I’m saying is sometimes Russian prospects take longer to come over. I think it was 4 or 5 years after he was drafted when Kaprizov came over. A lot of Russian like to play at home, they don’t feel this drastic need to come over right away. That’s all I’m saying man, chill lol.

 

[supermann_98]

for sure, I think Amirov will be an NHL player. He completely dominated against his peers and was a stud with the U-18’s. So he has potential, I don’t think he’s an offensive dynamo but he can be effective. It’s easy to say in hindsight we should have taken Dawson Mercer or Schneider but I like this pick. Just gotta be patient. How long did it take Minny to get Kaprizov over?

Oh man I almost forgot he was an option. Yeah I would’ve wanted Schneider but how good would Mercer look in blue and white? Instead, the mystery box.

Whatever, I give them a pass because our 2nd and 3rd rounders have been steals lately

 

[francis246]

Oh man I almost forgot he was an option. Yeah I would’ve wanted Schneider but how good would Mercer look in blue and white? Instead, the mystery box.

Whatever, I give them a pass because our 2nd and 3rd rounders have been steals lately

trust me I know!! I really wanted Schneider and that want grew after the world juniors. But damn how good does Mercer look… it sucks for us

 

[TheDoldrums]

Oh man I almost forgot he was an option. Yeah I would’ve wanted Schneider but how good would Mercer look in blue and white? Instead, the mystery box.

Whatever, I give them a pass because our 2nd and 3rd rounders have been steals lately

Does "mystery box" mean European? I'm very confused why you keep using that term and why it would apply to Amirov but not other prospects.

 

[stickty111]

The criticism of Amirov will look pretty silly in a matter of time. Dubas more then deserves to be trusted on his drafting.