Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[acrobaticgoalie]

I was pushing for Knies - Minten - McMann in the preseason when Minten was up. That unit would be an awesome 3rd line providing size, grit, defense, and offense like we haven't had in a while.

I think that line lacks playmaking though. All 3 guys are more goal scorers than they are setup guys.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I think that line lacks playmaking though. All 3 guys are more goal scorers than they are setup guys.

Playmaking is less essential in the typical construction of bottom 6 lines. Obviously in an ideal world you have that balance, but the role of the 3rd or 4th line is typically either as a defensive/matchup line or as an energy/crash and bang line.

Maltby-McCarty-Draper
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer
Campbell-Paille-Thornton
Holik-Peluso-McKay
Staal-Cooke-Kennedy

These were some of the best 3rd lines in recent NHL history. None of these lines had anyone you could describe as a "playmaker" per se. Third lines don't need playmaker as much as our scoring lines because the offense they produce is not typically via a direct, possession game, but through turnovers created by a physical forecheck, dump and chase, and cycle game. Their job is to create havoc and chaos and soften up the defense. With their size and skating the line I proposed could be dominant in that style.

Of course, you could run three scoring lines if you want, but that seems more like a Dubas strategy than something Tre or Berube would do. Tre even singled out Nic Dowd as the kind of third line centre he wants, and he is by no means a playmaker.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Playmaking is less essential in the typical construction of bottom 6 lines. Obviously in an ideal world you have that balance, but the role of the 3rd or 4th line is typically either as a defensive/matchup line or as an energy/crash and bang line.

Maltby-McCarty-Draper
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer
Campbell-Paille-Thornton
Holik-Peluso-McKay
Staal-Cooke-Kennedy

These were some of the best 3rd lines in recent NHL history. None of these lines had anyone you could describe as a "playmaker" per se. Third lines don't need playmaker as much as our scoring lines because the offense they produce is not typically via a direct, possession game, but through turnovers created by a physical forecheck, dump and chase, and cycle game. Their job is to create havoc and chaos and soften up the defense. With their size and skating the line I proposed could be dominant in that style.

Of course, you could run three scoring lines if you want, but that seems more like a Dubas strategy than something Tre or Berube would do. Tre even singled out Nic Dowd as the kind of third line centre he wants, and he is by no means a playmaker.

I don't think your bottom 6 can be a black hole offensively, they need to contribute.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I don't think your bottom 6 can be a black hole offensively, they need to contribute.

Where did I say it should be a "black hole" offensively? I said they don't need a designated playmaker and gave you examples of very good third lines that did exactly that. Minten's playmaking ability is sufficient for what we need, and no line with the scoring potential of Knies and McMann is going to be a black hole like say the Kampf/Reaves line.

 

[4thline]

I think that line lacks playmaking though. All 3 guys are more goal scorers than they are setup guys.

Playmakers need goalscorers to be effective, one dimensional snipers need player makers to be effective, but while they can benefit from a playmaker finding them in space complete players that will get their hands dirty and happen to have great shots will get the job done regardless

 

[LaPlante94]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1791998924959433018

Brought Caufields brother last year and now Hutsons brother. The youngest Hutson brother in our range at the draft. Someone in management trolling the Habs or something?

 

[NCoRe]

I must say, I'm really looking forward of seeing how Mattinen has developed here in europe. I was def rooting for him, back when he was a young draftee. Always thought he'd have it what it takes

 

[The Nic]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1791998924959433018

Brought Caufields brother last year and now Hutsons brother. The youngest Hutson brother in our range at the draft. Someone in management trolling the Habs or something?

I always liked the Hudson Brothers...

 

[aingefan]

Knies
McMann
Have made the leap

Next up : who sticks next from Marlies?
Holmberg (for good?)
Steeves: like to see him get a longer look
Kokkonen: rounding into that solid 6/7 D?
Niemela: needs to have a big leap in development year.

Other Rookies
Minten:
Cowan:
Grebyokin:
Chadwick:
Webber:

Will Berube be willing to stick with a few young guys and put up with some mistakes?

I’m counting on Homberg, Dewar and NickRob cementing roles.
Greb and Cowan can force the issue with big camps.
Niemela, I don’t think the issue is so much development as it is frame. Smart kid, lots of pro experience, but pretty slight.
I hope Steeves can stick. He’s got some versatility. I wonder if he doesn’t end up part of deals this off-season.
More on the D side, I wonder if Marshall Rifai gets some games. Also a smart guy, decent size, late bloomer, didn’t look out of place during his cup of coffee. Or maybe an add-on to deals.
And Nick Abruzzese might get a sniff if MM is dealt; kids a bit of a PP wizard.

 

[aingefan]

I always liked the Hudson Brothers...

At 5’10 180 I think this guy is the biggest kid in the family, maybe.

 

[conFABulator]

I’m counting on Homberg, Dewar and NickRob cementing roles.
Greb and Cowan can force the issue with big camps.
Niemela, I don’t think the issue is so much development as it is frame. Smart kid, lots of pro experience, but pretty slight.
I hope Steeves can stick. He’s got some versatility. I wonder if he doesn’t end up part of deals this off-season.
More on the D side, I wonder if Marshall Rifai gets some games. Also a smart guy, decent size, late bloomer, didn’t look out of place during his cup of coffee. Or maybe an add-on to deals.
And Nick Abruzzese might get a sniff if MM is dealt; kids a bit of a PP wizard.

That's a pretty good list, I would add Minten and Tverberg on the F list and maybe Webber (though he and Chadwick might need a year in the A).

We don't exactly have a lot of open F spots on the big league roster. We might find ourselves in a "trade for position of strength" position to build the D by expending from the F surplus?

 

[aingefan]

That's a pretty good list, I would add Minten and Tverberg on the F list and maybe Webber (though he and Chadwick might need a year in the A).

We don't exactly have a lot of open F spots on the big league roster. We might find ourselves in a "trade for position of strength" position to build the D by expending from the F surplus?

Those are viable prospects, too. I didn’t mention Minten, just because of the numbers.
Both should be in the mix for 25-26.
I think you’re right, some forwards could be in play. Hopefully, at they’re peak value - like Saad /CHI. Might also see some prospect for different type of prospect deals.

 

[conFABulator]

Those are viable prospects, too. I didn’t mention Minten, just because of the numbers.
Both should be in the mix for 25-26.
I think you’re right, some forwards could be in play. Hopefully, at they’re peak value - like Saad /CHI. Might also see some prospect for different type of prospect deals.

You have your eye on any good young D?

Robertson for Schneider?

 

[aingefan]

You have your eye on any good young D?

Robertson for Schneider?

I can’t say I know other teams dudes that well. Im not sure on Schneider other than then lotsa people her liking him; seems like he mighta been “Schenn’d”. Fabbri sounds like a smart buy low add.
I feel like trading NickRob right now is a low value proposition.
Hbu?

 

[conFABulator]

I can’t say I know other teams dudes that well. Im not sure on Schneider other than then lotsa people her liking him; seems like he mighta been “Schenn’d”. Fabbri sounds like a smart buy low add.
I feel like trading NickRob right now is a low value proposition.
Hbu?

Agree with all of that, I am not sure how we get his value up? I guess if we have three scoring lines out of Matthews, Nylander, Bertuzzi, Domi, Knies, McMann, Tavares, Robertson, Holmberg/Jarnkrok and no Marner or any player we get in a trade for him or free agency with the cap space. A long way of saying, is Robertson ever going to get too time including PP?

That's why I wonder about Schneider, be seems to have similar difficulty showing he can climb the Rangers D depth chart.

 

[arso40]

Agree with all of that, I am not sure how we get his value up? I guess if we have three scoring lines out of Matthews, Nylander, Bertuzzi, Domi, Knies, McMann, Tavares, Robertson, Holmberg/Jarnkrok and no Marner or any player we get in a trade for him or free agency with the cap space. A long way of saying, is Robertson ever going to get too time including PP?

That's why I wonder about Schneider, be seems to have similar difficulty showing he can climb the Rangers D depth chart.

He'd look good on pp1 just not sure how to get him on there

 

[horner]

Knies
McMann
Have made the leap

Next up : who sticks next from Marlies?
Holmberg (for good?)
Steeves: like to see him get a longer look
Kokkonen: rounding into that solid 6/7 D?
Niemela: needs to have a big leap in development year.

Other Rookies
Minten:
Cowan:
Grebyokin:
Chadwick:
Webber:

Will Berube be willing to stick with a few young guys and put up with some mistakes?

He will have no choice.

 

[conFABulator]

He'd look good on pp1 just not sure how to get him on there

Exactly. I guess if we get a return in a Marner around two dmen, or one dman and cap space to get a second one that might open a spot up front for him.

Of course I forgot Cowan in the mix for ice time too.

Bertuzzi Matthews Domi
Robertson Holmberg Nylander
Knies Tavares McMann
Jarnkrok Dewar Cowan
Reaves

Rielly XXX
XXX Liljegren
Benoit McCabe
Lyubushkin

 

[arso40]

Exactly. I guess if we get a return in a Marner around two dmen, or one dman and cap space to get a second one that might open a spot up front for him.

Of course I forgot Cowan in the mix for ice time too.

Bertuzzi Matthews Domi
Robertson Holmberg Nylander
Knies Tavares McMann
Jarnkrok Dewar Cowan
Reaves

Rielly XXX
XXX Liljegren
Benoit McCabe
Lyubushkin

McCabe definitely In the top 4 depending on which top 4 dman we get he either plays off side or strong side with rielly or lily as far as the forward group I would love toffoli In our top 6 playing with matthews and domi and Bert with Willy Two guys on separate lines that'll help our top 2 forwards keep some bite In their game... lily better hit the weight room this off season no more getting bullied down low

 

[Thornbury]

McCabe definitely In the top 4 depending on which top 4 dman we get he either plays off side or strong side with rielly or lily as far as the forward group I would love toffoli In our top 6 playing with matthews and domi and Bert with Willy Two guys on separate lines that'll help our top 2 forwards keep some bite In their game... lily better hit the weight room this off season no more getting bullied down low

If you've seen off ice photos of Lilly, he is in fact pretty muscular already. His problem is that his frame just isn't that big, so I don't think he's going to be able to build that much mass. I think to a large extent, at 25, he is what he is, and the team has to decide if that's enoug If they could get a decent return, maybe it is time to move him.

 

[arso40]

If you've seen off ice photos of Lilly, he is in fact pretty muscular already. His problem is that his frame just isn't that big, so I don't think he's going to be able to build that much mass. I think to a large extent, at 25, he is what he is, and the team has to decide if that's enoug If they could get a decent return, maybe it is time to move him.

I wouldn't give up on him just yet and yeah he's muscular but he's 6 ft I'm sure he can bulk up a little more then he already is better dman then rielly in my opinion less risky better shot just not as fast and cost controlled very much doubt he's hit his ceiling

 

[horner]

Knies
McMann
Have made the leap

Next up : who sticks next from Marlies?
Holmberg (for good?)
Steeves: like to see him get a longer look
Kokkonen: rounding into that solid 6/7 D?
Niemela: needs to have a big leap in development year.

Other Rookies
Minten:
Cowan:
Grebyokin:
Chadwick:
Webber:

Will Berube be willing to stick with a few young guys and put up with some mistakes?

When he first started with the Blues he had

Playoffs
Thomas R. 21 gp 6 pts
Dunn 1. 20 gp 8 pts
Blais 1 15 gp 3 pts
Barbashev 1 25 gp 6 pts
Sanford 1 8 gp 4 pts

It seems as though he trusted his Rookies and players that had played in the league for one yr in the playoffs

 

[aingefan]

Agree with all of that, I am not sure how we get his value up? I guess if we have three scoring lines out of Matthews, Nylander, Bertuzzi, Domi, Knies, McMann, Tavares, Robertson, Holmberg/Jarnkrok and no Marner or any player we get in a trade for him or free agency with the cap space. A long way of saying, is Robertson ever going to get too time including PP?

That's why I wonder about Schneider, be seems to have similar difficulty showing he can climb the Rangers D depth chart.

Exactly. I guess if we get a return in a Marner around two dmen, or one dman and cap space to get a second one that might open a spot up front for him.

Of course I forgot Cowan in the mix for ice time too.

Bertuzzi Matthews Domi
Robertson Holmberg Nylander
Knies Tavares McMann
Jarnkrok Dewar Cowan
Reaves

Rielly XXX
XXX Liljegren
Benoit McCabe
Lyubushkin

I thought Robertson-JT-McMann were great together. Seemed to be some good synergy. The kids fired up JT, JT helped the kids.
That’s his best role at this point in my mind. Third line C then LW. Help groom and insulate kids like Nick Rob, Cowan, Minten. It he insists on staying, that would be my role for him, hopefully in a dirt cheap extension for a couple years.
And NickRob just needs minutes to get better raw numbers to improve the perception of his value imo; his per60’s are already very good.

 

[aingefan]

If you've seen off ice photos of Lilly, he is in fact pretty muscular already. His problem is that his frame just isn't that big, so I don't think he's going to be able to build that much mass. I think to a large extent, at 25, he is what he is, and the team has to decide if that's enoug If they could get a decent return, maybe it is time to move him.

That’s well said, but I’m not sure I’d frame it *exactly* like that.
He’s plenty strong, but his natural game is more puck retrieval and movement. You can see he’s working at being more physical and if you watch, he wins lotsa net front battles. Just the ones he doesn’t win are more visible.
He’s been a receptive kid, always trying to do what the team asks since he was drafted, even when their expectation is his least natural instinct.
I think he could use more of a mean streak, but that’s not really him or his training either.
He’s at his best with someone who can receive his passes and move the puck on his level; big part of why he and Sandin were so good together - similar play styles, positioning made it more natural for him.
I’m opposed to moving him, because there’s actually lots to like if you can help him pull it all together, and at this years likely aav it’s worth the time. But I can definitely see the possibility of a move.

 

[conFABulator]

I thought Robertson-JT-McMann were great together. Seemed to be some good synergy. The kids fired up JT, JT helped the kids.
That’s his best role at this point in my mind. Third line C then LW. Help groom and insulate kids like Nick Rob, Cowan, Minten. It he insists on staying, that would be my role for him, hopefully in a dirt cheap extension for a couple years.
And NickRob just needs minutes to get better raw numbers to improve the perception of his value imo; his per60’s are already very good.

I think that is what I see too. I don't see him "insisting" on staying so much as not asking our captain to waive a NMC.

Robertson JT McMann

Was a good line, it's a great third line. Who does that leave the top two as (without Marner or his return in the lineup)?

Knies Matthews Domi
Bertuzzi Holmberg Nylander

Holmberg being the weak spot, but he does have upside and is responsible defensively. Maybe we add a bottom six C in the Marner move? Wright? We haven't mentioned Cowan, Minten, or Grebenkin. It's a deep forward group and we would have added to our D substantially with the Marner trade.