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Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

kerk

kerk

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Apr 27, 2009
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Fogelhund said:
We have posts complaining about the ex Leafs prospects that are still contributing in the playoffs. If we let Robertson go, we'll be complaining about losing him next. It shouldn't happen at all.
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people are giving the leafs crap for justin brazeau who couldn't even crack the marlies, i don't wanna know what would happen by letting robertson go
 
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Fogelhund

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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kerk said:
people are giving the leafs crap for justin brazeau who couldn't even crack the marlies, i don't wanna know what would happen by letting robertson go
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I thought at the time, that letting Brazeau go was a mistake. He did well in the ECHL for us, then didn't get much of a chance with Covid happening. You know, he played one less game, and scored one more point than McMann that year with the Marlies... That Marlies team was lead in scoring by Gaudette, Agostino and Kossila.

I'm not one of these posters who looks back in time and gets mad about these things though... but we seem to have a habit of letting go some players too soon... and that needs to be looked at for moving forward.

We let Brazeau go at 23, Marchment at 24, Verhaeghe at 19... should we let these guys develop further in the future?
 
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TheMadHatTrick

TheMadHatTrick

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Nov 2, 2008
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I've been watching some video of Hildeby's games this year. One thing I'd like to see him improve is his tendency to vacate the top half of the net when searching for the puck in traffic. He has a tendency to bend all the way down with his torso in order to track and find the puck instead of remaining upright and just articulating his neck/head in the direction he wants to look. That's the way Patrick Roy played. It's a waste of his 6'7 frame to be hunching over in traffic before the puck is even close enough for him to grab.
 
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kerk

kerk

Registered User
Apr 27, 2009
694
1,233
Fogelhund said:
I thought at the time, that letting Brazeau go was a mistake. He did well in the ECHL for us, then didn't get much of a chance with Covid happening. You know, he played one less game, and scored one more point than McMann that year with the Marlies... That Marlies team was lead in scoring by Gaudette, Agostino and Kossila.

I'm not one of these posters who looks back in time and gets mad about these things though... but we seem to have a habit of letting go some players too soon... and that needs to be looked at for moving forward.

We let Brazeau go at 23, Marchment at 24, Verhaeghe at 19... should we let these guys develop further in the future?
Click to expand...
the 2 guys who the leafs have let go that i remember not agreeing with at the time because they didn't have enough (any) time in pro were verhaeghe and dakota joshua. verhaeghe who was famously a contract slot dump before playing an AHL game for grabner and joshua who the leafs didn't sign and dealt his rights after college (could have been his decision to not sign with the leafs, not sure). but i liked both of them and was disappointed when they were dealt. joshua especially is disappointing cus he's kinda exactly what the leafs could use right now. but i also liked riley stotts and ryan mcgregor and they've both turned out to be nothing.

i watched a lot of the marlies back then and marchment and brazeau didn't look like they'd ever get close to nhl regulars. the fact that they have, imo, is more on them sticking with it and making it than the leafs giving up on them too early. i've never seen a point in dwelling on letting go of guys who didn't look like they'd make it at the time. and with someone like marchment, even if he wasn't traded, probably would have just been lost on waivers anyway, but brazeau showed almost nothing that was worth keeping around. that may have been covid affecting his development and in hindsight maybe they should have considered that before letting him go, but hindsight is obviously 20/20.

anyway all i'm trying to say is development isn't linear, sometimes guys break out like 6 years and 3 teams later. it happens, nobody can tell the future and there's no point dwelling on these sorts of things because more often than not nothing comes of the players who looked bad and were let go lol. the leafs just happened to be a cursed franchise.
 
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nuck

nuck

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Aug 18, 2005
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kerk said:
the 2 guys who the leafs have let go that i remember not agreeing with at the time because they didn't have enough (any) time in pro were verhaeghe and dakota joshua. verhaeghe who was famously a contract slot dump before playing an AHL game for grabner and joshua who the leafs didn't sign and dealt his rights after college (could have been his decision to not sign with the leafs, not sure). but i liked both of them and was disappointed when they were dealt. joshua especially is disappointing cus he's kinda exactly what the leafs could use right now. but i also liked riley stotts and ryan mcgregor and they've both turned out to be nothing.

i watched a lot of the marlies back then and marchment and brazeau didn't look like they'd ever get close to nhl regulars. the fact that they have, imo, is more on them sticking with it and making it than the leafs giving up on them too early. i've never seen a point in dwelling on letting go of guys who didn't look like they'd make it at the time. and with someone like marchment, even if he wasn't traded, probably would have just been lost on waivers anyway, but brazeau showed almost nothing that was worth keeping around. that may have been covid affecting his development and in hindsight maybe they should have considered that before letting him go, but hindsight is obviously 20/20.

anyway all i'm trying to say is development isn't linear, sometimes guys break out like 6 years and 3 teams later. it happens, nobody can tell the future and there's no point dwelling on these sorts of things because more often than not nothing comes of the players who looked bad and were let go lol. the leafs just happened to be a cursed franchise.
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Doesn't it seem like the Leafs are generating more of these guys that are benefiting other clubs? At forward at least. I did not realize Joshua had that much of a power game. Nice find for Vancouver.
 
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VanW27

Registered User
Jun 9, 2003
4,763
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Canada
Fogelhund said:
I thought at the time, that letting Brazeau go was a mistake. He did well in the ECHL for us, then didn't get much of a chance with Covid happening. You know, he played one less game, and scored one more point than McMann that year with the Marlies... That Marlies team was lead in scoring by Gaudette, Agostino and Kossila.

I'm not one of these posters who looks back in time and gets mad about these things though... but we seem to have a habit of letting go some players too soon... and that needs to be looked at for moving forward.

We let Brazeau go at 23, Marchment at 24, Verhaeghe at 19... should we let these guys develop further in the future?
Click to expand...
I mean I get what you're saying but Brazeau didn't even have an NHL deal, as much as we let him go it's just as likely he and his camp made a calculated decision to go the place where he'd get the best opportunity to develop. He was a fringe prospect at best at the time, he needed to look after his best interests over any type of loyalty to a franchise if he's going to make it to the NHL.

I'll also comment on Verhaeghe just because lamenting his loss is just so silly to me. He didn't play an NHL game until 5 seasons later, didn't break out until 6 seasons later. In that time he had been waived, an unqualified UFA and signed to league minimum contracts. Any team could have had him multiple times.

Marchment on the other hand is incredibly annoying to me. All that time working with him and taking him from nothing prospect to a good AHLer with a shot at the NHL only to dump him right as he was getting close. Not only that but even if the value was there, which I can at least see the argument for, trading the only semblance of a "heavy" forward prospect we had for another undersized scorer was maddening.
 
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uncleben

uncleben

Global Moderator
Dec 4, 2008
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Acton, Ontario
kerk said:
the 2 guys who the leafs have let go that i remember not agreeing with at the time because they didn't have enough (any) time in pro were verhaeghe and dakota joshua. verhaeghe who was famously a contract slot dump before playing an AHL game for grabner and joshua who the leafs didn't sign and dealt his rights after college (could have been his decision to not sign with the leafs, not sure). but i liked both of them and was disappointed when they were dealt. joshua especially is disappointing cus he's kinda exactly what the leafs could use right now. but i also liked riley stotts and ryan mcgregor and they've both turned out to be nothing.

i watched a lot of the marlies back then and marchment and brazeau didn't look like they'd ever get close to nhl regulars. the fact that they have, imo, is more on them sticking with it and making it than the leafs giving up on them too early. i've never seen a point in dwelling on letting go of guys who didn't look like they'd make it at the time. and with someone like marchment, even if he wasn't traded, probably would have just been lost on waivers anyway, but brazeau showed almost nothing that was worth keeping around. that may have been covid affecting his development and in hindsight maybe they should have considered that before letting him go, but hindsight is obviously 20/20.

anyway all i'm trying to say is development isn't linear, sometimes guys break out like 6 years and 3 teams later. it happens, nobody can tell the future and there's no point dwelling on these sorts of things because more often than not nothing comes of the players who looked bad and were let go lol. the leafs just happened to be a cursed franchise.
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The Verhaeghe trade was just weird to begin with
It was kind of like how teams will trade picks to dump a contract for cap space, but Leafs traded Verhaeghe to dump contracts for our reserve list. It was just kind of a weird and unnecessary trade.


Joshua though, while he's turned out a successful career, the trade itself wasn't that heartbreaking or ugly looking.

He was a 23 year old pending free agent who had seen declining stats for his last two years of school and wasn't going to sign.
Going back through the trade threads here and on the mains, it was a pretty nothing trade that saw minimal engagement - in fact most posters didn't know anything about him
And as you said, we had guys like McGregor who were projecting better.

Little reason to think things would turn out like this, but that's also just part of the game, and good on Joshua for not counting himself out
 
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Fogelhund

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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VanW27 said:
I mean I get what you're saying but Brazeau didn't even have an NHL deal, as much as we let him go it's just as likely he and his camp made a calculated decision to go the place where he'd get the best opportunity to develop. He was a fringe prospect at best at the time, he needed to look after his best interests over any type of loyalty to a franchise if he's going to make it to the NHL.

I'll also comment on Verhaeghe just because lamenting his loss is just so silly to me. He didn't play an NHL game until 5 seasons later, didn't break out until 6 seasons later. In that time he had been waived, an unqualified UFA and signed to league minimum contracts. Any team could have had him multiple times.

Marchment on the other hand is incredibly annoying to me. All that time working with him and taking him from nothing prospect to a good AHLer with a shot at the NHL only to dump him right as he was getting close. Not only that but even if the value was there, which I can at least see the argument for, trading the only semblance of a "heavy" forward prospect we had for another undersized scorer was maddening.
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Noting, I don’t really lament their losses, as much as I think we should take a hard look at these players, and try to reduce the odds of us giving up on some of these bigger bodies too early. I appreciate it isn’t a science, and we’ve picked up plenty of players others have given up on… part of it is just luck and timing, but I you can learn to improve your process, do so.
 
613Leafer

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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Fogelhund said:
Noting, I don’t really lament their losses, as much as I think we should take a hard look at these players, and try to reduce the odds of us giving up on some of these bigger bodies too early. I appreciate it isn’t a science, and we’ve picked up plenty of players others have given up on… part of it is just luck and timing, but I you can learn to improve your process, do so.
Click to expand...

I think a legit complaint is that the Leafs haven't drafted and developed a bona fide top 6 forward, top 4 D, or quality starting goalie outside of a top 10 pick since... Kaberle? Knies is close, Kulemin was at that level for one season but couldn't sustain it, etc. Compare that to Boston - Marchand, Bergeron, McAvoy, Pastrnak, Lucic, Krejci, Swayman, etc.

So regardless of the circumstances, the hindsight, etc, fans are going to be understandably frustrated to see guys we drafted like Verhaeghe and Durzi, and previously Steen, Rask, Stralman, etc, develop into those types of players elsewhere.
 
LaPlante94

LaPlante94

Registered User
Apr 12, 2011
6,864
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Cowan with an assist on the PP. It really is crazy how literally every team in every league has the guy in the shooting spot on boards to pass it down to net front and a quick pass to the bumper spot in the slot. Yet we just don't want to do that for some reason very often.
 
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horner

Registered User
May 22, 2007
8,120
4,589
nuck said:
Doesn't it seem like the Leafs are generating more of these guys that are benefiting other clubs? At forward at least. I did not realize Joshua had that much of a power game. Nice find for Vancouver.
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And he is a UFA
3rd line center or winger
 
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weems

weems

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Jul 3, 2008
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LaPlante94 said:
Cowan with an assist on the PP. It really is crazy how literally every team in every league has the guy in the shooting spot on boards to pass it down to net front and a quick pass to the bumper spot in the slot. Yet we just don't want to do that for some reason very often.
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Our PP has been a joke and one of the biggest reasons we can't do anything in the playoffs.

 
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