Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[Fogelhund]

Button is wrong.

He's just wrong.

...

Knights had one Russian who was unranked earlier ... where is he at now after the playoffs?
192?
Now he's been passed over but I'm sure the Leafs watched a tonne of him while monitoring Cowan?

I'm confused. What is it Button is wrong about?

 

[ULF_55]

I've watched 30+ games, and I wouldnt pick him that high if there were any of the other top defenders on the board, but, if he dropped to the teens, for sure.
He has a lot of skills that is undeniable, but, he also has a bit of Jake Gardiner in him, where he'll make a pass to an invisible player, or just skate to the wrong area from time to time. his Hockey Sense is not as elite as the rest of his game.

I'd take a prime age Jake Gardiner on this current team ... just sayin.
Of course you'd have to surround him with good defensiv ...
Hmm? Ummm?

 

[Fogelhund]

I'd take a prime age Jake Gardiner on this current team ... just sayin.
Of course you'd have to surround him with good defensiv ...
Hmm? Ummm?

The defensive side of the game is one of Dickinson's strengths actually.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm confused. What is it Button is wrong about?

j/k

I think he's a bit of knob

More curious about Gazizov .

 

[Fogelhund]

j/k

I think he's a bit of knob

More curious about Gazizov .

If he's around for one of our 5th round picks, for sure you'd take a gamble on him.

i think dickenson gives san jose something to think about .in 3 years he may be the next big thing

I doubt that they would take him over Celebrini. I could see him going anywhere from 4th to 11th though.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Anyone mentioning these two in the same sentence, or insinuating Cowan can replace Marner, is a complete casual.

Cowan could be an integral core piece long term but his impact and style will be totally different from Marner. Marner was also way more dominant in the OHL.

I’m still of the mindset to send him back to London next year after a 9 game trial. That’s obviously dependent on his camp. His resume is more shiny than his actual ISO game tape IMO. People will list his accolades as indication he’s done with the OHL, but I still see a lot of untapped offensive potential that would benefit from another season in junior. Has nothing to do with PPG ratio for me.

He brings things that Marner doesn't. Most are underwhelmed by Marner in the playoffs and are tired of paying him too much for reg season on a stacked team. There are teams Marner wouldn't get 80 pts on. It's you who over rate Marner and want to overpay him. We aren't saying Cowan is the next Marner. We hope he isn't.

 

[Knies iT]

He brings things that Marner doesn't. Most are underwhelmed by Marner in the playoffs and are tired of paying him too much for reg season on a stacked team. There are teams Marner wouldn't get 80 pts on. It's you who over rate Marner and want to overpay him. We aren't saying Cowan is the next Marner. We hope he isn't.

What are you on about?

 

[darrylsittler27]

What are you on about?

Cowan versus Marner talk. And how I hope we can trade him this summer

 

[StuckOutHere]

I know this is probably a somewhat taboo topic probably but here goes. Can someone outline why the New York Rangers received a compensatory pick following the passing of Alexei Cherapanov and why the Leafs are not following the passing of Rodion Amirov.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I know this is probably a somewhat taboo topic probably but here goes. Can someone outline why the New York Rangers received a compensatory pick following the passing of Alexei Cherapanov and why the Leafs are not following the passing of Rodion Amirov.

The NYR hadn't signed Cherapanov if I recall correctly.

The Leafs did sign Amirov, most likely to try to get him benefits/money to help with his condition, they did a good thing. They may not receive a compensation pick but hopefully some positive karma.

 

[uncleben]

I know this is probably a somewhat taboo topic probably but here goes. Can someone outline why the New York Rangers received a compensatory pick following the passing of Alexei Cherapanov and why the Leafs are not following the passing of Rodion Amirov.

The NYR hadn't signed Cherapanov if I recall correctly.

The Leafs did sign Amirov, most likely to try to get him benefits/money to help with his condition, they did a good thing. They may not receive a compensation pick but hopefully some positive karma.

More importantly, the Leafs signed him before there was any diagnosis.

At the time of signing, there were better odds he would simply bust and never play an NHL game and there would be no compensation; or equal chance that any of other already signed players would develop cancer and there would be no compensation.


As far as the CBA was concerned, the moment he signed, that clause went out the window, despite how things very unfortunately ended.

 

[ACC1224]

Cowan versus Marner talk. And how I hope we can trade him this summer

Marner will probably let Cowan stay with him during camp, help mentor him.

There is no 'versus'. Cowan more than likely goes back to London for another year, he's certainly not replacing a 100 point all star winger, that's ridiculous.

 

[hullsy47]

Marner will probably let Cowan stay with him during camp, help mentor him.

There is no 'versus'. Cowan more than likely goes back to London for another year, he's certainly not replacing a 100 point all star winger, that's ridiculous.

No but if the leafs run it back they will fight for 8th place in the east
Then marner will walk for free
Ducking the media one last time

 

[ACC1224]

No but if the leafs run it back they will fight for 8th place in the east
Then marner will walk for free
Ducking the media one last time

You think they'll finish worse in the standings if they don't replace Marner with Cowan?

 

[VanW27]

More importantly, the Leafs signed him before there was any diagnosis.

At the time of signing, there were better odds he would simply bust and never play an NHL game and there would be no compensation; or equal chance that any of other already signed players would develop cancer and there would be no compensation.


As far as the CBA was concerned, the moment he signed, that clause went out the window, despite how things very unfortunately ended.

The diagnosis date being after the signing wouldn't really have anything to do with it.

The CBA states teams get a compensation pick if they fail to sign a 1st rounder within the 2 year window. Cherepanov was not signed and died so therfore could not sign. Although the circumstances were tragic, the Rangers argument is simply that the NHL just needed to follow their own rules in draft pick compensation.

In the case of Amirov he was signed in that 2 year window and sadly passed away a bit over 3 years after being drafted. Had he signed but then died before that initial 2 year window maybe the Leafs could have argued for compensation (unlikely) but it would have been more complicated in that it would have needed to modify the existing rules in the CBA.

 

[VanW27]

You think they'll finish worse in the standings if they don't replace Marner with Cowan?

I don't think that's what he's saying, more simply that running it back will mean a Leafs team that's pretty mediocre. Which I don't think is an unreasonable prediction.

102pts, 3rd in the Division, 5th in the Conference, 10th in the league last year. Comfortable playoff team but never really threatened the teams above us either, even with Matthews and Nylander having monster years. Basically an above average team.

The big boys aren't kids anymore so expecting improvement there isn't realistic. Injuries or regression (likely) to either Matthews or Nylander would hurt us and its not a far trip from "above average" to "average." Obviously we have no idea what the team will look like next year but if the team doesn't see significant change a 90-95 point finish seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think that's what he's saying, more simply that running it back will mean a Leafs team that's pretty mediocre. Which I don't think is an unreasonable prediction.

102pts, 3rd in the Division, 5th in the Conference, 10th in the league last year. Comfortable playoff team but never really threatened the teams above us either, even with Matthews and Nylander having monster years. Basically an above average team.

The big boys aren't kids anymore so expecting improvement there isn't realistic. Injuries or regression (likely) to either Matthews or Nylander would hurt us and its not a far trip from "above average" to "average." Obviously we have no idea what the team will look like next year but if the team doesn't see significant change a 90-95 point finish seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

They must have quoted me by mistake then.

 

[uncleben]

The diagnosis date being after the signing wouldn't really have anything to do with it.

The CBA states teams get a compensation pick if they fail to sign a 1st rounder within the 2 year window. Cherepanov was not signed and died so therfore could not sign. Although the circumstances were tragic, the Rangers argument is simply that the NHL just needed to follow their own rules in draft pick compensation.

In the case of Amirov he was signed in that 2 year window and sadly passed away a bit over 3 years after being drafted. Had he signed but then died before that initial 2 year window maybe the Leafs could have argued for compensation (unlikely) but it would have been more complicated in that it would have needed to modify the existing rules in the CBA.

Sorry, yes, that's what I was trying to say.

Maybe the league would have given special circumstances if the Leafs had signed him after his diagnosis to give his family money, access to additional care, and fulfilling a dream, but they signed him before any of that so it's moot either way.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't think that's what he's saying, more simply that running it back will mean a Leafs team that's pretty mediocre. Which I don't think is an unreasonable prediction.

102pts, 3rd in the Division, 5th in the Conference, 10th in the league last year. Comfortable playoff team but never really threatened the teams above us either, even with Matthews and Nylander having monster years. Basically an above average team.

The big boys aren't kids anymore so expecting improvement there isn't realistic. Injuries or regression (likely) to either Matthews or Nylander would hurt us and its not a far trip from "above average" to "average." Obviously we have no idea what the team will look like next year but if the team doesn't see significant change a 90-95 point finish seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

I would think there could still be improvement ...

Not saying more points, but easily more rounded games.

Nylander just turned 28, Matthews 27 for the upcoming season.

I bet most of the best UFA are older than Nylander.

There will be regression, but my guess 3 years away.

I doubt we see a Hyman scenario though ...

 

[WTFMAN99]

I would think there could still be improvement ...

Not saying more points, but easily more rounded games.

Nylander just turned 28, Matthews 27 for the upcoming season.

I bet most of the best UFA are older than Nylander.

There will be regression, but my guess 3 years away.

I doubt we see a Hyman scenario though ...

I think Matthews and Marner have a pretty mature defensive game.

I don't think Nylander is truly bad defensively.

JT is just older and slower.

I think the problem is the mental make up of the group, they don't have to lose enough, they don't get mad enough and they don't have ability to stand up for themselves.

Pastrnak dropped the gloves with Tkachuk in the playoffs, didn't win but you can't say he's a wimp. [MOD]

I think Grebyonkin, Minten and Cowan all will bring some snarl to the group and they seem competitive and not willing to take shit, I just don't know about their offensive ceilings.

 

[SprDaVE]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798333189045526965

 

[BertCorbeau]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798333189045526965

I like this guy

 

[supermann_98]

I know this is probably a somewhat taboo topic probably but here goes. Can someone outline why the New York Rangers received a compensatory pick following the passing of Alexei Cherapanov and why the Leafs are not following the passing of Rodion Amirov.

It came up here before and it's because the Leafs signed him to an ELC. Honestly don't know how that makes a difference tho when neither prospect was able to make it to the league yet.

The Rangers ARE the apple of Bettman's eye tho so I honestly don't expect the Leafs to get any type of compensatory picks or whatnot

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't think that's what he's saying, more simply that running it back will mean a Leafs team that's pretty mediocre. Which I don't think is an unreasonable prediction.

102pts, 3rd in the Division, 5th in the Conference, 10th in the league last year. Comfortable playoff team but never really threatened the teams above us either, even with Matthews and Nylander having monster years. Basically an above average team.

The big boys aren't kids anymore so expecting improvement there isn't realistic. Injuries or regression (likely) to either Matthews or Nylander would hurt us and its not a far trip from "above average" to "average." Obviously we have no idea what the team will look like next year but if the team doesn't see significant change a 90-95 point finish seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

That kind of drop is possible... it really depends on what is done.

We were 21st in Goals against.
We were 23rd in PK%
Our PP dropped to 7th in the league.

If we can improve our defensive side/goaltending, plus our special teams... even if there is a bit of a drop off 5v5, we could end up just as good, or maybe better. Guys like Knies, McMann, Robertson will be in their second years and hopefully improve, and we might get Cowan or even Grebyonkin and Minten in as well. I think it's incredibly unpredictable right now... depends on who we trade, if we do, what comes back, what kind of success we have in Free Agency, and if there is chemistry with the changes.

I think we'll need to wait until at least August to have any idea of where we are going.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I like this guy

Just won the KHL cup and is like "Screw this, I want the Stanley Cup" and heading to Toronto.

Love this guy.