When are you going to stop making excuses for a pro? Every year there’s a new excuse off the ice rielly is a great spokesman for our team only problem is you can’t win the cup from off ice intangibles hes been here for over 10 years sometimes change is needed what steal deal is he on? He literally cannot defend you consider that a steal? McCabe is on a steal contract tanev is on a steal contract that's our number 1 and number 2 dman explain to me how 7.5 is a steal knowing what I just said
Prospect Info: Marlies, Cyclones, and Prospect Discussion
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SprDaVE
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5 goals in his last 2 games. Still time left in the current game. Could get back to back hattricks.
LaPlante94
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He was making 5 mil putting up 50+ and 2 of those seasons he put up 72 points with 20 goals and 68 points with 10 in a full 82 game season. If you don't consider that a steal at that cap hit for those numbers from a d man then I don't know wtf to tell you. Guy has never had a consistent D partner his entire career because we have a lot of roster turnaround when so much cap goes to a small group of players. His best years have been playing with stay at home shutdown defenders. That is a fact, not an excuse. We need a change but you'd rather keep players that can't produce offence, are overrated defensively, can't break up cycles or clear the net, easy to knock off the puck and turn the puck over at costly times that lose us games. Damn, at least Rielly can produce offensively, even when he's having an off year.
Yes he can produce offence Hes a rover that doesn’t defend is lazy Hes a forward on the baccend I expect him to produce points what I expect from all dmen especially top 4 dmen is they can defend rielly cannot defend rielly does none of what you said and the offence is dropping with a full no move and a noticeable decline
Fogelhund
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LaPlante94
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Y'all praise offensive defencemen all the time who only produce offence and can't play defence. Hell, this all started because you said you'd take Lilli over Rielly who was drafted as an offensive defenceman and can't get more than 25 points. Yet when Rielly puts up very good offensive numbers as an offensive d man it's we need to get rid of him and 7.5 is too much after putting up 72 point and 68 point seasons and he can't defend. Newsflash, a lot of offensive d men can't defend well which is why teams will find them defensive d men to cover for them and if your teams forwards are smart they'd also cover high if the d man joins the rush or pinches. Some things our teams just don't do consistently because everyone would just be looking for offence.
Hes a two way defender doesn’t matter what your drafted it you should be rounded out your game no matter what your strengths are coming into the league that’s the part that’s baffling rielly never rounded out his defensive game at all Babs tried and it was an epic fail so instead he had Gardiner and zaitsev taking those matchups at what point is the organization just insane ? Name a number 1 offensive dman that cant play defence other than rielly even Bouchards a better defender
LaPlante94
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He's not a two way defender. No matter how much you try to push that narrative Lili is not that.
Lets start off with the obvious one and the one that people would say was the best defenceman in the league during his prime with Erik Karlsson.
As a matter of fact you can just go look at the Norris trophy winners which has become the trophy for the defenceman that can put up the most points. A lot of defenders on there recently that are 90% offence and 10% defence.
stickty111
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I read it. Nowhere does it say or imply it's a lack of work ethic. Basically says he has weaknesses that need to improve or haven't improved.
Liljegren is an NHL player, so comparing them doesn't really help your argument. Also, your statements about him are pretty misleading. He's played 48 out of 51 games since joining San Jose (only Ferraro has played more), and averages the 4th most ice time. The idea that they bring offense and nothing else is wrong. And I'd rather have inconsistent offense than the consistently garbage offense, transition, and defense that we're getting out of guys like Benoit right now.
"That is why offensive defencemen have shorter leashes because if they can't provide the one thing they are supposed to be good at they'll put someone else in who can provide something else." That's illogical. A defensive defenseman is just as capable of failing to provide what they are supposed to be good at. And our current problem is that we keep throwing them out there. We're not trying someone else who can provide something else. We have options, but we didn't even bother to see what they could provide in preseason.
We had more than enough preseason games to give one of our top defensive prospects coming off a great rookie year more than 14 minutes all preseason. Niemela and Villeneuve had zero chance, but Myers, Benoit, Rifai, Timmins, Kokkonen, Mattinen, Webber, and Mermis all did? If that's true, then you just proved the bias true. What have they all shown?
Niemela has done more to deserve a shot at the Leafs than a number of those players, as well as players that were given more opportunity last year. But we're also not even talking about Niemela having a spot on the Leafs right now. We're just talking about not burying him, not holding him out of even preseason, and not tossing away a prospect that has shown decent potential.
LaPlante94
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Liljegren was used as an example because over the years you'd try to convince us he was one of our best d men when he just wasn't. Always trying to throw around xGF% numbers and all that when the guy whiffed on passes many times during the game and quite a few ended up in our net not long after and we lose a game by 1 goal. From what I've seen Niemela doesn't seem to have that problem so he's got that going for him. Another guy like Niemela who wasn't strong on the puck and can't break up a cycle or clear the net. Pretty important things to be able to do somewhat well to help out the goalies.
So we should rush the 3rd round pick who has only really shown he can put together 1 good season and then follow that up with a bad season? Just because you think he could do better than the others ahead of him.
Myers, Benoit, Rifai, Timmins and Kokkonen did. Benoit had a good season the previous year so why wouldn't he? Timmins looked great and carried that into the season until recently. Kokkonen has been a pretty reliable defender on the Marlies the last few seasons so of course he deserves it more. Myers has shown he can be a useful player in the NHL and produced pretty well in the AHL and Junior so why wouldn't they want to see him more? Rifai just impressed when he played and earned whatever he was given.
Again, he's had 1 good season in the AHL and then follows that up with a disappointing one and gets outplayed by Villeneuve. Welcome to professional sports where you are competing for ice time, especially when you only have 1 season over here. Maybe we should stop overrating Niemela when he's only 22 and in his 2nd AHL season and let him develop a little more and do what they have asked him to do to be an everyday NHLer in the future.
It is a fact he was one of our better defencemen when rielly went out and he went to the top pair we went on a winning a streak ? Why do you think that was the case he lead us in points on the bacc end our pp look the best it did and we weren’t giving up much go bacc and look at the stats bud
Timmins was fools gold for the first month when hocceys loose the same as every other year if you compare lily to any of the bottom three currently on the team you are out to lunch lily wasn’t getting playing time from chief decide the reason why all you want hes a top 4 defender on this team
LaPlante94
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Is that the criteria to be one of our better defenders? How many winning streaks we go on with Rielly as the top guy? Always leads our D in points and PP was top 5-10 with him at the point on it. The PP has always been streaky and it got hot 1 time when Liljegren got to play on the PP and then went cold. Got hot again that same season with Rielly on it too.
LaPlante94
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He's not a top 4 d man on any contending team. If he's a top 4 d man on this team then we need to make some deals. He was barely a top 4 D on SJ and lucky for him they traded Ceci and now Walman so he should get some top pairing minutes and top PP.
I’d argue neither is rielly hence we’ve never made it out of the first round except for 1 playoffs the goal that sent us home rielly played a big part in it only ones paid almost 8 million dollars
I never said Liljegren was one of our best defensemen. What are you even talking about? But he is an NHL defenseman, so it's not a great argument to compare him to Niemela and then endorse throwing Niemela away. Being good at clearing the net and breaking a cycle are helpful qualities, but they are far from the only important qualities, or even the only way to provide positive defensive impact (let alone overall impact).
Nobody is suggesting that Niemela should be rushed. Just not tossed aside.
Benoit deserves a shot in preseason because he had a good season the previous year? But Niemela coming off a great rookie season in the AHL doesn't deserve preseason games? That seems hypocritical. Why did Benoit get a shot last year in the first place? He was complete garbage in 2022-2023, and was horrible in his training camp/preseason. That chance wasn't earned.
Timmins and Myers have gotten a bunch of opportunities at a regular NHL roster spot and repeatedly failed, but they get more opportunities! Kokkonen, Rifai, Mattinen, Webber, and Mermis didn't do anything more impressive in the AHL or anywhere else, but they get opportunities! But our top defensive prospect coming off a great rookie season in the AHL? Nah. Just toss him aside.
uncleben
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Stringer Bell
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With Grebenkin and Minten gone, and the 2026 and 2027 first round picks gone...
When was the last time we were this thin on prospects?
When was the last time we were this thin on prospects?
uncleben
Global Moderator
Without exaggeration, I think we now have the worst prospect cupboard in the league
ULF_55
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So they've separated themselves from the pack.
They do have 7 picks this year.
Not sure what they're getting from the Penguins though.
I think we can expect some backfilling with college and euro FA’s who can step in.
Grebs and Minten are nice prospects, but haven’t excelled at the A level.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Leafs like some UDFA options as much as they liked those two.
Grebs and Minten are nice prospects, but haven’t excelled at the A level.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Leafs like some UDFA options as much as they liked those two.
I’ll take a guess that on draft day they’ll move some of those ‘25 picks for ‘26 picks so there’s as many bullets in the chamber for the next deadline.
SprDaVE
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They were pretty vanilla. Solid prospects but a far cry from blue chippers or even that exciting. I never understood the hype around Greb, but he was a fun player for sure. He was awful defensively and seems lost without the puck.
With that said, the Marlies are going to be very boring to watch for awhile.
