Prospect Info: Marlies, Cyclones, and Prospect Discussion

[arso40]

Guy has a baby and has a slow start because that never happens. Even at his worst he's still producing better on the offensive side. Yeah it's pretty crazy all these years we couldn't draft a stay at home defenceman to pair with him so we don't have to trade for it every year or try and find it in FA. Tanev was supposed to be that guy but they went with a shutdown pair with our 2 best stay at home defenders instead which isn't a bad idea. What you mean he's had over a decade to show out? He was showing out on a steal of a deal while the core took every penny they could get and didn't carry the team anywhere.

When are you going to stop making excuses for a pro? Every year there’s a new excuse off the ice rielly is a great spokesman for our team only problem is you can’t win the cup from off ice intangibles hes been here for over 10 years sometimes change is needed what steal deal is he on? He literally cannot defend you consider that a steal? McCabe is on a steal contract tanev is on a steal contract that's our number 1 and number 2 dman explain to me how 7.5 is a steal knowing what I just said

 

[SprDaVE]

5 goals in his last 2 games. Still time left in the current game. Could get back to back hattricks.

 

[LaPlante94]

When are you going to stop making excuses for a pro? Every year there’s a new excuse off the ice rielly is a great spokesman for our team only problem is you can’t win the cup from off ice intangibles hes been here for over 10 years sometimes change is needed what steal deal is he on? He literally cannot defend you consider that a steal? McCabe is on a steal contract tanev is on a steal contract that's our number 1 and number 2 dman explain to me how 7.5 is a steal knowing what I just said

He was making 5 mil putting up 50+ and 2 of those seasons he put up 72 points with 20 goals and 68 points with 10 in a full 82 game season. If you don't consider that a steal at that cap hit for those numbers from a d man then I don't know wtf to tell you. Guy has never had a consistent D partner his entire career because we have a lot of roster turnaround when so much cap goes to a small group of players. His best years have been playing with stay at home shutdown defenders. That is a fact, not an excuse. We need a change but you'd rather keep players that can't produce offence, are overrated defensively, can't break up cycles or clear the net, easy to knock off the puck and turn the puck over at costly times that lose us games. Damn, at least Rielly can produce offensively, even when he's having an off year.

 

[arso40]

He was making 5 mil putting up 50+ and 2 of those seasons he put up 72 points with 20 goals and 68 points with 10 in a full 82 game season. If you don't consider that a steal at that cap hit for those numbers from a d man then I don't know wtf to tell you. Guy has never had a consistent D partner his entire career because we have a lot of roster turnaround when so much cap goes to a small group of players. His best years have been playing with stay at home shutdown defenders. That is a fact, not an excuse. We need a change but you'd rather keep players that can't produce offence, are overrated defensively, can't break up cycles or clear the net, easy to knock off the puck and turn the puck over at costly times that lose us games. Damn, at least Rielly can produce offensively, even when he's having an off year.

Yes he can produce offence Hes a rover that doesn’t defend is lazy Hes a forward on the baccend I expect him to produce points what I expect from all dmen especially top 4 dmen is they can defend rielly cannot defend rielly does none of what you said and the offence is dropping with a full no move and a noticeable decline

 

[Fogelhund]

How do you know he hasn't put in the work? Maybe he has, but his weaknesses aren't improving. I don't see anything in those quotes which suggests he won't try too
Is it fair for me to say Rielly doesn't work on his game, which is why he is still bad defensively? We all know Rielly is extremely hard working off the ice.

It's right there above for you to read....

 

[LaPlante94]

Yes he can produce offence Hes a rover that doesn’t defend is lazy Hes a forward on the baccend I expect him to produce points what I expect from all dmen especially top 4 dmen is they can defend rielly cannot defend rielly does none of what you said and the offence is dropping with a full no move and a noticeable decline

Y'all praise offensive defencemen all the time who only produce offence and can't play defence. Hell, this all started because you said you'd take Lilli over Rielly who was drafted as an offensive defenceman and can't get more than 25 points. Yet when Rielly puts up very good offensive numbers as an offensive d man it's we need to get rid of him and 7.5 is too much after putting up 72 point and 68 point seasons and he can't defend. Newsflash, a lot of offensive d men can't defend well which is why teams will find them defensive d men to cover for them and if your teams forwards are smart they'd also cover high if the d man joins the rush or pinches. Some things our teams just don't do consistently because everyone would just be looking for offence.

 

[arso40]

Y'all praise offensive defencemen all the time who only produce offence and can't play defence. Hell, this all started because you said you'd take Lilli over Rielly who was drafted as an offensive defenceman and can't get more than 25 points. Yet when Rielly puts up very good offensive numbers as an offensive d man it's we need to get rid of him and 7.5 is too much after putting up 72 point and 68 point seasons and he can't defend. Newsflash, a lot of offensive d men can't defend well which is why teams will find them defensive d men to cover for them and if your teams forwards are smart they'd also cover high if the d man joins the rush or pinches. Some things our teams just don't do consistently because everyone would just be looking for offence.

Hes a two way defender doesn’t matter what your drafted it you should be rounded out your game no matter what your strengths are coming into the league that’s the part that’s baffling rielly never rounded out his defensive game at all Babs tried and it was an epic fail so instead he had Gardiner and zaitsev taking those matchups at what point is the organization just insane ? Name a number 1 offensive dman that cant play defence other than rielly even Bouchards a better defender

 

[LaPlante94]

Hes a two way defender doesn’t matter what your drafted it you should be rounded out your game no matter what your strengths are coming into the league that’s the part that’s baffling rielly never rounded out his defensive game at all Babs tried and it was an epic fail so instead he had Gardiner and zaitsev taking those matchups at what point is the organization just insane ? Name a number 1 offensive dman that cant play defence other than rielly even Bouchards a better defender

He's not a two way defender. No matter how much you try to push that narrative Lili is not that.

Lets start off with the obvious one and the one that people would say was the best defenceman in the league during his prime with Erik Karlsson.

As a matter of fact you can just go look at the Norris trophy winners which has become the trophy for the defenceman that can put up the most points. A lot of defenders on there recently that are 90% offence and 10% defence.

 

[stickty111]

It's right there above for you to read....

I read it. Nowhere does it say or imply it's a lack of work ethic. Basically says he has weaknesses that need to improve or haven't improved.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We've heard all of this about Liljegren before. Well guess what, he's on the worst team in the league and is still getting healthy scratched at times and their fans have even said on a contending team he's a bottom pair guy at best. These guys are supposed to bring offence and nothing else really and they are too inconsistent at doing that. That is why offensive defencemen have shorter leashes because if they can't provide the one thing they are supposed to be good at they'll put someone else in who can provide something else.

Villeneuve was a 3rd round pick who hasn't really shown too much in the AHL until this year. We had like 4 or 5 guys fighting for 2 3rd pair spots since the top 4 was already made up so those guys got to get in more pre season games. Niemela and Villeneuve had no chance of making the Leafs and they wanted to get more in game showings of people who were actually considered.

Tell me what Niemela has done to show he deserves a shot on the Leafs already? He had a hot start in the Finnish league that 1 year where I believe he was almost a PPG player for the 1st 20-30 games of the year and then his production just stopped. Falls off the next season. Comes to the AHL and does the exact same thing. A guy who can't even stay consistent in the Finnish league or the AHL and is considered our best defensive prospect seems like a problem and makes zero sense why he deserves a spot on the Leafs. Yes he shows flashes which is great and all but if he's been told he needs to get stronger to be in the NHL and hasn't got stronger then he's just gonna have to wait longer.

Liljegren is an NHL player, so comparing them doesn't really help your argument. Also, your statements about him are pretty misleading. He's played 48 out of 51 games since joining San Jose (only Ferraro has played more), and averages the 4th most ice time. The idea that they bring offense and nothing else is wrong. And I'd rather have inconsistent offense than the consistently garbage offense, transition, and defense that we're getting out of guys like Benoit right now.

"That is why offensive defencemen have shorter leashes because if they can't provide the one thing they are supposed to be good at they'll put someone else in who can provide something else." That's illogical. A defensive defenseman is just as capable of failing to provide what they are supposed to be good at. And our current problem is that we keep throwing them out there. We're not trying someone else who can provide something else. We have options, but we didn't even bother to see what they could provide in preseason.

We had more than enough preseason games to give one of our top defensive prospects coming off a great rookie year more than 14 minutes all preseason. Niemela and Villeneuve had zero chance, but Myers, Benoit, Rifai, Timmins, Kokkonen, Mattinen, Webber, and Mermis all did? If that's true, then you just proved the bias true. What have they all shown?

Niemela has done more to deserve a shot at the Leafs than a number of those players, as well as players that were given more opportunity last year. But we're also not even talking about Niemela having a spot on the Leafs right now. We're just talking about not burying him, not holding him out of even preseason, and not tossing away a prospect that has shown decent potential.