Salary Cap: Marleau's 3rd Year

[kb]

I get it you want the Leafs to be a gold plated retirement home for the aging and declining stars of yesteryear. Some of us actually want the team to be the best it can be in order to have the best chance of winning a cup again. Apparently that's not a good look to some people.

So you read my posts, and that is all you took that from it?

Comprehension and understanding of what is written is a beautiful thing when it is utilized. But for some.....it's far to difficult when they only see what they want to see because of an agenda, instead of seeing what is written.

Show me where I said I wanted him on the team in the third year. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Can't find it? Didn't think so.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

But the most important thing that many Leaf fans keep forgetting and this is related to the above LTIR (long term injury replacement) CBA situation is that Leafs have the injured Nathan Horton on the books at $5.3 mil and on LTIR.. So Marleau makes $6.25 mil - Horton LTIR $5.3 mil = +$950k. So essential for Leafs salary cap calculation purposes its only the difference of $950k that Leafs need to accommodate below the hard cap ceiling (Currently $80 mil). That balance of the LTIR reimbursement ($5.3 mil) can be above the upper salary cap limit. Hard Cap of $80 mil + Horton at $5.3 mil LTIR = Leafs spending of $85.3 mil salary cap.

So in year #3 with Marleau playing he only costs the Leafs similar cap hit to a Marlie player making $925k (like Grundstrom, Rosen, Ozhiganov,Sandin, etc etc).

IF the Leafs don't win the Cup this year, you can 100% believe Marleau will return next year to honour his contract, even if it were in a reduced role to take one last shot at it in 2019-20. IMO

The post I’m responding to is a few days old.. but I just don’t understand it.

What does Hortons LTIR relief have to do with Marleaus contract?

Hortons cap hit is off the books reagrdless of Marleau. So I just don’t understand the point you’re making.

 

[topched]

Honestly - I could see a Brooks Orpik scenario here, if the leafs really want it to happen. I could see Dubas & Chayka even hooking up on it, a couple of hot shot GMs doing something the old school guys don't love.

Attach a decent pick/prospect to Marleau who gets bought out. Re-sign him for league minimum. Marleau gets more $, and leafs essentially trade for cap space.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's not, really.

I was thinking the same. My response to @Gary Nylund was

I thought he made some good points so ... opinions vary.

There's been a ton of speculation about the 3rd year and so many people insist that they know what the story is when I don't believe anyone knows for sure. We'll see what happens.

 

[kb]

I thought he made some good points so ... opinions vary.

There's been a ton of speculation about the 3rd year and so many people insist that they know what the story is when I don't believe anyone knows for sure. We'll see what happens.

The only thing we know is that Marleau holds all the cards. Which was my point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The only thing we know is that Marleau holds all the cards. Which was my point.

I don't believe that's 100% clear. If there's a handshake deal in place then there's no issues at all. And if he decides to not honor that deal then as the original post stated, we're not entirely helpless.

 

[kb]

I don't believe that's 100% clear. If there's a handshake deal in place then there's no issues at all. And if he decides to not honor that deal then as the original post stated, we're not entirely helpless.

Honour what deal? There is no handshake deal. What is this mysterious handshake deal? Could I have a link to it? That is wishful thinking. How the contract is structured is meaningless.

The Leafs can't do anything but LTIR him, but he is on the books. Nothing can be done about it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honour what deal? There is no handshake deal. That is wishful thinking. How the contract is structured is meaningless.

The Leafs can't do anything but LTIR him, but he is on the books. Nothing can be done about it.

Let's be honest here, you have no idea if there is or isn't a handshake deal in place and stating there isn't as if it was a fact is delusional. Same goes for how the contract is structured, you say it's meaningless, maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

It's funny, same thing happened with Stamkos and then Tavares - hundreds of people posted that they KNOW for sure if he is or isn't signing (I wish I had a buck for every time I read "book it" on this site in those posts). Same with JVR being or not being traded and now the same thing with the Marleau contract. Me, I'm perfectly willing to stay real, admit that I have no insider information and am thus in the dark just like everyone else. There have been some good arguments made in favour of there being a handshake deal in place, it seems plausible to me and I hope that's the way it is.

We'll all find out at the same time.

 

[ACC1224]

Let's be honest here, you have no idea if there is or isn't a handshake deal in place and stating there isn't as if it was a fact is delusional. Same goes for how the contract is structured, you say it's meaningless, maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

It's funny, same thing happened with Stamkos and then Tavares - hundreds of people posted that they KNOW for sure if he is or isn't signing (I wish I had a buck for every time I read "book it" on this site in those posts). Same with JVR being or not being traded and now the same thing with the Marleau contract. Me, I'm perfectly willing to stay real, admit that I have no insider information and am thus in the dark just like everyone else. There have been some good arguments made in favour of there being a handshake deal in place, it seems plausible to me and I hope that's the way it is.

We'll all find out at the same time.

True no one knows for sure either way, a "handshake deal" only makes sense to me if it's based on a Cup win.
It just seems so hard to imagine a player pulling up stakes after a career in one place to try and get an elusive ring and then promising to quit on that goal for a few extra bucks when over his entire career he's never been a mercenary.

Be interesting to know if there is any history of these type of deals being worked out in the past.
Seems more like a wishful thinking fan type thing to me.

Good news, we have something to discuss for another year!

 

[Gary Nylund]

True no one knows for sure either way, a "handshake deal" only makes sense to me if it's based on a Cup win.
It just seems so hard to imagine a player pulling up stakes after a career in one place to try and get an elusive ring and then promising to quit on that goal for a few extra bucks when over his entire career he's never been a mercenary.

Be interesting to know if there is any history of these type of deals being worked out in the past.
Seems more like a wishful thinking fan type thing to me.

Good news, we have something to discuss for another year!

I think there have been good arguments on both sides so I'll just wait and see what happens. As far as the past goes, if there have been such deals we probably wouldn't find about it for many, many years after the fact if at all for obvious reasons.

 

[ACC1224]

I think there have been good arguments on both sides so I'll just wait and see what happens. As far as the past goes, if there have been such deals we probably wouldn't find about it for many, many years after the fact if at all for obvious reasons.

Personally I think these are like Santa, they exist if you really believe they do.
I think the cost of being caught circumventing the cap would be too great.
Could be I'm naive though.

 

[kb]

Even if this "mythical" handshake deal were to exist, it STILL doesn't matter......Marleau still holds all the cards. There is nothing in writing. That is my point, and it is ironclad and irrefutable.

Marleau doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would deliberately break SPC rules and do something sleazy, given his integrity and impeccable reputation - which means a lot to him.

I'm just going to stick with the facts on this.

Facts:

1) Marleau signed a 3 year contract.
2) The contract is a 35+ contract
3) The contract is NMC for all 3 years.
4) The contract cannot be bought out (see point #2)
5) Marleau's stated intention was to win a cup.
6) The ONLY thing the Leafs could do is put him on LTIR. And good luck signing other vets if a future HOF gets the Robidas Island treatment.

There are no "good points on both sides". One side is fact based, the other side involves unicorns, rainbows, and the tooth fairy.

 

[willmma]

The Marleau contract is a blessing imo.

WN deserves around $6. MM $7. And AM around $11. Those are fair numbers. The Leafs can offer these numbers and say listen, with the hard cap, we can't go any higher.

The kids might get greedy and think they deserve more, but hey with Marleau's contract no one can do anything about it.

That contract is just the right length to get the kids signed and then Viola!! Extra $6.3M in cap space.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Even if this "mythical" handshake deal were to exist, it STILL doesn't matter......Marleau still holds all the cards. There is nothing in writing. That is my point, and it is ironclad and irrefutable.

Marleau doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would deliberately break SPC rules and do something sleazy, given his integrity and impeccable reputation - which means a lot to him.

I'm just going to stick with the facts on this.

Facts:

1) Marleau signed a 3 year contract.
2) The contract is a 35+ contract
3) The contract is NMC for all 3 years.
4) The contract cannot be bought out (see point #2)
5) Marleau's stated intention was to win a cup.
6) The ONLY thing the Leafs could do is put him on LTIR. And good luck signing other vets if a future HOF gets the Robidas Island treatment.

There are no "good points on both sides". One side is fact based, the other side involves unicorns, rainbows, and the tooth fairy.

If there was a handshake deal, it obviously can't be made public knowledge so you can keep insisting all you want that it doesn't exist, that doesn't mean you're right.

If Marleau doesn't honour such a deal, we do absolutely have some cards to play which was explained to you earlier.

 

[Boutette]

And good luck signing other vets if a future HOF gets the Robidas Island treatment.

This is the most hysterical part of this argument. The Robidas Island treatment reportedly hasn't stopped any player of note from signing with the Leafs. Teams up against the cap make hard decisions. That often includes asking players, some of whom have NMC contracts (including future HOFers) to take a walk for the good of the team. I find it funny that all of these people arguing that Marleau *must play for the leafs in his 3rd year* forget that the Leafs offered hims vastly more money than any other team, including other cup contenders, because that would *never, ever* play into his decision to sign. If his prime reason come coming over was to get a chance for the cup, why did he *only* come over after the Leafs agreed to pay him vastly more $$$$ than Sharks, the contender of a team he was already playing for and had been playing for for 20 years, were willing to offer?

 

[Faltorvo]

I think there have been good arguments on both sides so I'll just wait and see what happens. As far as the past goes, if there have been such deals we probably wouldn't find about it for many, many years after the fact if at all for obvious reasons.

what like many predicted these insane lone back diving deals,would "find a reason" to be out of the league once the actual pay ends?

they are ALL dropping like flys.

 

[Faltorvo]

what like many predicted these insane lone back diving deals,would "find a reason" to be out of the league once the actual pay ends?

they are ALL dropping like flys.

you means those "impossible to KNOW or predict" handshake deals?????

GN,, you know how to see without actually seeing,, some welp,,just don't get it.

 

[4thline]

If Marleau can still be a 20 goal two way winger that can handle tough minutes it doesn't matter, we'll be fine. We need Dermott and Zaitsev to be top4 guys, that's independent of Marleau.

Outside 1 top 4 defensemen there will be no open spots that can't be adequately filled with ELC's or cheap vet signings.

 

[kb]

If there was a handshake deal, it obviously can't be made public knowledge so you can keep insisting all you want that it doesn't exist, that doesn't mean you're right.

If Marleau doesn't honour such a deal, we do absolutely have some cards to play which was explained to you earlier.

What cards can be played? Put him in the pressbox? That's still $6.25 million against the cap AND arguably you put a worse player in the lineup.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I find it funny that all of these people arguing that Marleau *must play for the leafs in his 3rd year* forget that the Leafs offered hims vastly more money than any other team, including other cup contenders, because that would *never, ever* play into his decision to sign. If his prime reason come coming over was to get a chance for the cup, why did he *only* come over after the Leafs agreed to pay him vastly more $$$$ than Sharks, the contender of a team he was already playing for and had been playing for for 20 years, were willing to offer?

This seems like a fair question.

 

[kb]

This is the most hysterical part of this argument. The Robidas Island treatment reportedly hasn't stopped any player of note from signing with the Leafs. Teams up against the cap make hard decisions. That often includes asking players, some of whom have NMC contracts (including future HOFers) to take a walk for the good of the team. I find it funny that all of these people arguing that Marleau *must play for the leafs in his 3rd year* forget that the Leafs offered hims vastly more money than any other team, including other cup contenders, because that would *never, ever* play into his decision to sign. If his prime reason come coming over was to get a chance for the cup, why did he *only* come over after the Leafs agreed to pay him vastly more $$$$ than Sharks, the contender of a team he was already playing for and had been playing for for 20 years, were willing to offer?

Who of note has gone to Robidas Island? Lupul? He was a mess and a trainwreck off the ice, and not a good player on the ice.

 

[kb]

This seems like a fair question.

Because of the guaranteed 3rd year. How much more does it have to be explained to you 2??

 

[ACC1224]

This seems like a fair question.

Won't like the answer but I imagine he came to contend for 3 years which I don't believe the Sharks were willing to go to.

 

[Boutette]

Because of the guaranteed 3rd year. How much more does it have to be explained to you 2??

Or because of the guaranteed extra several million $$$. There's no evidence right now to claim either arguement is 100% true. We will find out next year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Won't like the answer but I imagine he came to contend for 3 years which I don't believe the Sharks were willing to go to.

If that's the case then it would seem that he does care more about the money than some some people have been saying. And since he'll have most of that money before the 3rd year kicks in ...