Salary Cap: Marleau's 3rd Year

[ShaneFalco]

Unless we see him deteriorate, PM brings a lot to the team and I'd like to see him stay

 

[TheProspector]

Marleau is bad. He has declined massively. Hopefully Dubas can find a buyer before every other team knows it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Unless we see him deteriorate, PM brings a lot to the team and I'd like to see him stay

I'd like to see him stay to if we can fit him in under the cap. If however it's a choice between him and Gardiner, I choose Gardiner.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I am more skeptical of Patty than most. He did score 27 last season which is impressive, but there were time where he looked pretty useless on the ice. He still needs to score 25+ goals for me to be happy about his cap hit for 19-20.

 

[willmma]

I've been to Cap Friendly. It states the Leafs have $30mil available for 2019-2020. Thats before they have to sign Matthews, Nylander and Marner (25mil likely hit), not to mention Kapananen, Johnsson, Carrick, Lievo, Lindholm, a back up goaltender and all the other players they will need to fill out the roster. Sure, the cap may rise and there is Horton's IR, but that's also minus Gardiner and Hainsey. I'm not saying its a catastrophe, the team is still very good. I'm just pointing out looking at those deficits the team, with Marleau's bloated cap hit, does not look like a better team that this year's team. Does it to you, taking out the likes of Hainsey and Gardiner and being unable to add experienced defense because of Marleau's hit, or through jettisoning 6 mil worth of young forwards in order to keep Marleau for a year? Please explain how.

For 19/20 CapFriendly currently shows
6 forwards signed total $31.4M
4 defense signed total $11M
1 goalie signed total $5M
1 retained total $1.2M
grand total $48.6M

We need to sign AM ($11M), WN($6M) and MM($7M) and KK($3M) and AJ($3M) for around $30M
We are now at $78.6M
If cap goes up 4% it will become $82.5M.
Plus if we add the NH LTIR of $5.3 it will become $87.8M

They still have to sign 3 forwards, 3 defense and 1 goalie.
So we have about $9M to sign 5 people. Very doable, specially if you sign new ELC's

We lose Gardiner, Hainsey and maybe Carrick in the process.

 

[ACC1224]

Sure, Marleau can say 'Hell no I won't go.' That worked out wonderfully for the Muskoka 5, didn't it? You say he has all the cards? Sure he does, except the most important one for a player who wants to play. The leafs are perfectly free to sit him in the pressbox, especially if his age starts to show a decline as it may. Honestly, he's got as good a chance to win the cup if he agrees to be traded to a lesser team. For example, plenty of players at every trade deadline get moved from bad teams to contenders who did better than the Leafs this past year. Nash certainly made it further into the playoffs than Marleau did, as did Statsny, Tatar, Brassard etc. Does Marleau agree to a deal after he's made 90% of his money from the team. Maybe, maybe not. Does him staying make the Leafs in 2019-2020 a better team than without him, considering they won't be able to easily replace Gardiner and Hainsey with his cap hit on the books? Probably not. Does playing with a bad team hinder his chances of playing with a contender when that time comes around. No, no it doesn't, not at all. Given where that cap hit is going to be needed to push them over the top. Sure he will do what he will do. And so will Leafs management if they think what they are doing will make their team a better team. And we are all allowed to speculate on that, because this is what these forums are for.

What good will sitting him in the press box do?
He still needs to waive his NMC to this contender who would also need cap space to fit him in.
If he is good enough to help a contender, why wouldn't he be good enough to help the Leafs?

I think everyone just needs to accept that he will be a Leaf for his full 3 years.

 

[Boutette]

They still have to sign 3 forwards, 3 defense and 1 goalie.
So we have about $9M to sign 5 people.

FYI, 3+3+1= 7 not 5

 

[willmma]

FYI, 3+3+1= 7 not 5

You're right. I meant to say 7.

 

[Boutette]

He still needs to waive his NMC

Um... his cap it at the trade deadline would be about $1.7mil not the full 6.25 you seem to think it will.

Besides, lots of players have waived their NMC clauses in the past and will do in the future. Marleau may well become one of them just like all the others before him.

 

[ACC1224]

Um... his cap it at the trade deadline would be about $1.7mil not the full 6.25 you seem to think it will.

Besides, lots of players have waived their NMC clauses in the past and will do in the future. Marleau may well become one of them just like all the others before him.

Sure, on Teams out of the Playoffs. Do you expect the Leafs to be out of the Playoffs?

You didn't address my other questions. If he isn't good enough for the Leafs why would a contender want him? What good would sitting him in the press box do?

 

[Damisoph]

Big game player. Scored twice in game 7. I'm happy to have him for two more years.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I've been to Cap Friendly. It states the Leafs have $30mil available for 2019-2020. Thats before they have to sign Matthews, Nylander and Marner (25mil likely hit), not to mention Kapananen, Johnsson, Carrick, Lievo, Lindholm, a back up goaltender and all the other players they will need to fill out the roster. Sure, the cap may rise and there is Horton's IR, but that's also minus Gardiner and Hainsey. I'm not saying its a catastrophe, the team is still very good. I'm just pointing out looking at those deficits the team, with Marleau's bloated cap hit, does not look like a better team that this year's team. Does it to you, taking out the likes of Hainsey and Gardiner and being unable to add experienced defense because of Marleau's hit, or through jettisoning 6 mil worth of young forwards in order to keep Marleau for a year? Please explain how.

Well to start, it's 36+ million dollars because Horton.

I look at it and I can fit everyone in. Not sure why you can't, so I don't know what to explain to you.

 

[Boutette]

Sure, on Teams out of the Playoffs. Do you expect the Leafs to be out of the Playoffs?

You didn't address my other questions. If he isn't good enough for the Leafs why would a contender want him? What good would sitting him in the press box do?

When you are cognizent of the fact that the NHL has a hard cap, and show that you've actually thought about anything I have said, sure, I'll address your questions, because they will actually be relevant.

 

[Boutette]

Well to start, it's 36+ million dollars because Horton.

And I don't even know what you want me to explain. I look at it and I can fit everyone in. Not sure why you can't.

Math is hard. 30+5 doesn't add up to 37. That's basic kindergarten level man.

 

[ACC1224]

When you are cognizent of the fact that the NHL has a hard cap, and show that you've actually thought about anything I have said, sure, I'll address your questions, because they will actually be relevant.

My mistake, I thought you were a grown up.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Math is hard. 30+5 doesn't add up to 37. That's basic kindergarten level man.

It was 30.8 in cap space and Horton is 5.3. I rounded up, then decided to change it.

Anyway, we have space for everyone. If you want to demonstrate otherwise, I'm all ears.

 

[Boutette]

It was 30.8 in cap space and Horton is 5.3. I rounded up, then decided to change it.

Anyway, we have space for everyone. If you want to demonstrate otherwise, I'm all ears.

Numerous other people disagree with you. You can round up all you want, fiddle all you want, imagine all you want. The max number still doesn't change. 6.25mil for a 40pt 40 year old winger (when the team is bursting with wingers) is still in the way of improving the team where it needs to be improved. Not even making the effort to attempt to make those improvements however the team can, including asking Marleau to take a hike after we've given him 90% of his 19 mil overpayment for what he has provided is not really a good idea if you want the team to win a cup in the cap era.

And having to replace Gardiner (#3) as well as Hainsey (#2) with rookie grade defencemen on ELCs in order to pay for Marleau's cap is probably not going to get the Leafs where we want them. I think that Marleau's 6.25mil cap can be better spent to address that deficite, as opposed to pandering to his fans by keeping him around.

 

[therealkoho]

you guys worry about stuff way too much

 

[Joey Hoser]

Numerous other people disagree with you. You can round up all you want, fiddle all you want, imagine all you want. The max number still doesn't change. 6.25mil for a 40pt 40 year old winger (when the team is bursting with wingers) is still in the way of improving the team where it needs to be improved. Not even making the effort to attempt to make those improvements however the team can, including asking Marleau to take a hike after we've given him 90% of his 19 mil overpayment for what he has provided is not really a good idea if you want the team to win a cup in the cap era.

Look, if you want to show your work and demonstrate why it won't all fit, then I'll listen and consider it and the discussion can move forward.

If you're just here to rant about how awful and stupid the Marleau contract is, then fine go ahead. I disagree, but whatever. Doesn't change the fact that it all fits.

 

[CanadasTeam]

Numerous other people disagree with you. You can round up all you want, fiddle all you want, imagine all you want. The max number still doesn't change. 6.25mil for a 40pt 40 year old winger (when the team is bursting with wingers) is still in the way of improving the team where it needs to be improved. Not even making the effort to attempt to make those improvements however the team can, including asking Marleau to take a hike after we've given him 90% of his 19 mil overpayment for what he has provided is not really a good idea if you want the team to win a cup in the cap era.

And having to replace Gardiner (#3) as well as Hainsey (#2) with rookie grade defencemen on ELCs in order to pay for Marleau's cap is probably not going to get the Leafs where we want them. I think that Marleau's 6.25mil cap can be better spent to address that deficite, as opposed to pandering to his fans by keeping him around.

Stop wasting your effort and worry about it when we actually have cap issues. And what makes you think he'll even consider waiving his NMC? Sure other NHL'ers have done it in the past but Marleau's is a different scenario.

Just save it, until you're blue in the face there's no way in hell he's waiving his NMC, Leafs are actually good, just got Tavares, etc. this is his best chance to actually win a cup and he's not going elsewhere.

 

[kb]

Sure, Marleau can say 'Hell no I won't go.' That worked out wonderfully for the Muskoka 5, didn't it? You say he has all the cards? Sure he does, except the most important one for a player who wants to play. The leafs are perfectly free to sit him in the pressbox, especially if his age starts to show a decline as it may. Honestly, he's got as good a chance to win the cup if he agrees to be traded to a lesser team. For example, plenty of players at every trade deadline get moved from bad teams to contenders who did better than the Leafs this past year. Nash certainly made it further into the playoffs than Marleau did, as did Statsny, Tatar, Brassard etc. Does Marleau agree to a deal after he's made 90% of his money from the team. Maybe, maybe not. Does him staying make the Leafs in 2019-2020 a better team than without him, considering they won't be able to easily replace Gardiner and Hainsey with his cap hit on the books? Probably not. Does playing with a bad team hinder his chances of playing with a contender when that time comes around. No, no it doesn't, not at all. Given where that cap hit is going to be needed to push them over the top. Sure he will do what he will do. And so will Leafs management if they think what they are doing will make their team a better team. And we are all allowed to speculate on that, because this is what these forums are for.

Babcock loves him and makes the lineup calls. How long did it take to put Komarov in the press box? I'm highly doubtful that Babcock will sit him. And what does sitting him accomplish? The cap hit is still there. He made the decision to uproot his family. Now he does it again purely to help the Leafs out?

At this point it is pure specation that his cap hit will be a limiting factor. His cap hit doesn't cover Hainsey and Gardiner at their current salary. There is a full year, and no one knows what will happen before then.

Look, I get that having his cap hit off the books makes things easier. But I am not seeing Marleau's motivation for leaving. At all. Press box or not. If the Leafs do what you say.....good luck signing UFAs. They are just now getting a Rep as a good destination. It's not a good look for the organization to do that to a future HOF.

 

[kb]

Awesome post!

It's not, really.

 

[CanadasTeam]

It's not, really.

I was thinking the same. My response to @Gary Nylund was

 

[Boutette]

If the Leafs do what you say.....good luck signing UFAs. They are just now getting a Rep as a good destination. It's not a good look for the organization to do that to a future HOF.

I get it you want the Leafs to be a gold plated retirement home for the aging and declining stars of yesteryear. Some of us actually want the team to be the best it can be in order to have the best chance of winning a cup again. Apparently that's not a good look to some people.

 

[nsleaf]

I get it you want the Leafs to be a gold plated retirement home for the aging and declining stars of yesteryear. Some of us actually want the team to be the best it can be in order to have the best chance of winning a cup again. Apparently that's not a good look to some people.

That is not what he is saying and you know it. Your posts are just insulting other folks opinions. Posts lose all credibility when you do such things BTW.