Mario Lemieux's under-appreciated 2002-2003 season

[KoozNetsOff 92]

How old are you?

You're in a thread about Lemieux, hating on OV and getting all excited doing it. Check yourself before pointing fingers.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You're in a thread about Lemieux, hating on OV and getting all excited doing it. Check yourself before pointing fingers.

I’m 26 nothing to hide lol

 

[PensandCaps]

This is why it's so hard to like anything pens related.

i meant for mario

 

[bobbyking]

jagrs 2005 season is way more impressive sorry

 

[ScaredStreit]

Great post. Mario's easily the most talented player I ever saw play. The only reason he's not quite on Gretzky's level is injuries and getting cancer.

That 03 season was insane for him. 35 years old, injured ridden, scores 91 points in 67 games, on pace to win the Art Ross during the dead puck era too...all in the twilight of your career. No player since Mario has come anywhere near close to his level-and yes I'm including McDavid, Crosby, and Ovechkin in there.

 

[Kimota]

The way he played makes you convinced he was an actual genius in life, not just a physically gifted athlete with a high hockey IQ.

I said before he was essentially a perfect machine, a superior being.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I think 160 pts is pushing it but 140 pts regularly would be reasonable. Lemieux was an absolutely immense hockey talent.

 

[Sugi21]

Poise!

He was magic without even touching the puck!

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Here's an old post of mine that gives some visual evidence as to how far ahead of everyone Lemieux was in 2003 (before he got injured).

As an example, here's a chart showing the day-by-day results of the 2002-03 scoring race. Unlike CYM, the results are shown based on calendar dates.

Lemieux was probably the league leader starting October 12th (I say "probably" because I've only looked at the top eight scorers, and it's possible that someone else had the lead very early in the season). Lemieux was the league leader until February 6th (118 days, assuming he took the lead on October 12th). Naslund took the lead on February 7th (two-point game put him ahead of Lemieux 70-69). Lemieux had a 4-point game the following day, retaking the lead, which he held onto until February 27th, when Naslund pulled ahead. In total, Lemieux was probably the scoring leader for 137 out of 138 days from almost the very beginning of the season. (He briefly re-took the lead a few days after February 27th as well).

Naslund was the leading scorer from February 27th to April 5th (with the exception of two days - he was briefly passed by Lemieux on March 2nd and Thornton on March 22nd but re-took the lead the next day in both cases). He was the leading scorer up until the very last day of the season when Forsberg passed him. Naslund wasn`t particularly bad down the stretch (11 points in his last 8 games), but Forsberg was on fire (18 points in his last 9 games).

As mentioned, Forsberg didn't lead the NHL in scoring until the very last day of the season. He was 32 points out of the lead on December 28th (99 days to go)! He scored 29 points in his first 28 games, then 77 points in his last 47 games.

Thornton, who finished third, was the league`s scoring leader for exactly one day - March 22nd, when he briefly pulled ahead of Naslund, who re-took the lead with a two point game the next day.

Six of the eight top scorers were part of high-scoring duos (the exceptions being Demitra and Lemieux). The game-by-game results of the duos are highly correlated: 0.74 for Thornton-Murray, 0.67 for Naslund-Bertuzzi and 0.59 for Forsberg-Hejduk. Thornton never trailed Murray in scoring. Forsberg and Naslund both trailed their linemates on several occassions, but never by more than two points.

Technical notes:
1. To check the integrity of the data, I`ve added up the the day-by-day results for each player and ensured it agreed to their seasonal scoring totals.
2. All of this was done in Excel and, for simplicity, I`m not differentiating between a player having sole possession of first place in the scoring race, and being tied for first.
3. The entire process of compiling the data, writing the Excel formulae, creating the graph, and doing the write-up took about 90 minutes. I suspect going forward I can make a post about another year in 60 minutes. I might do that infrequently, but am not planning to do all 20 seasons as CYM did.

 

[wetcoast]

That season is a bit underappreciated but it isn't forgotten or anything.

Actually I think it's vastly overrated as Jagr actually outscored him in the games they play in together.

NHL.com Stats

Broken down Lemieux with crappy players to play with a lot of the time was still the biggest offensive force in hockey.

Except here is the actual scoring log and some really god offensive players like Jagr are in on alot of Mario's points that season.

Mario Lemieux 2000-01 Scoring Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Because he was huge and also the slowest player in the league at the time I thought he looked like an adult playing with kids and going at about 1/4 speed.

Yes I remember specifically watching Mario score all 3 Penguin goals in a 3-1 win over Montreal Jan 24th 2001 we really did see Mario in all his splendor and a glimpse of "what could have been" without the injuries and cancer.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Actually I think it's vastly overrated as Jagr actually outscored him in the games they play in together.

NHL.com Stats




Except here is the actual scoring log and some really god offensive players like Jagr are in on alot of Mario's points that season.

Mario Lemieux 2000-01 Scoring Log | Hockey-Reference.com



Yes I remember specifically watching Mario score all 3 Penguin goals in a 3-1 win over Montreal Jan 24th 2001 we really did see Mario in all his splendor and a glimpse of "what could have been" without the injuries and cancer.

Except that's 00/01, not 02/03, the subject of this thread.

 

[HarryLime]

GOAT talent

today is he played a full season I'd say 150 points.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

He was 37, a shell of his former self, his skating deteriorated, and still the best player on the ice. Some highlights from the sharks game in late 2002. He was leading league scoring handily at the time.

 

[Laveuglette]

I could see a young healthy Mario getting 160+ in today's league, yes. Pretty sure he would do it, in fact.

 

[Hostile Offer]

He was a force of nature. Lemieux, Forsberg, Jagr, Lindros... we just don't have guys like that anymore. Lemieux smoked, drank and f***ed, but was still stronger than almost any other player. I still can't believe a 6'4", 230 lbs guy could skate like that.

That style of play simply isn't as effective today. The closest I can think of is MacKinnon. Doesn't even begin to compare to how Lemieux could dominate though, obviously.

 

[JackSlater]

Actually I think it's vastly overrated as Jagr actually outscored him in the games they play in together.

NHL.com Stats




Except here is the actual scoring log and some really god offensive players like Jagr are in on alot of Mario's points that season.

Mario Lemieux 2000-01 Scoring Log | Hockey-Reference.com



Yes I remember specifically watching Mario score all 3 Penguin goals in a 3-1 win over Montreal Jan 24th 2001 we really did see Mario in all his splendor and a glimpse of "what could have been" without the injuries and cancer.

I have no idea why you're talking about the 2001 season.

 

[wetcoast]

I have no idea why you're talking about the 2001 season.

You are right my bad.

 

[Midnight Judges]

He was 37, a shell of his former self, his skating deteriorated, and still the best player on the ice. Some highlights from the sharks game in late 2002. He was leading league scoring handily at the time.

The biggest obstacle of being a professional athlete at 37 years old is your body doesn't recover as quickly from the wear and tear. The wear and tear really adds up. In Lemieux's case, he barely had any. He quit for 3 full seasons from 32-34, then played a half and quarter season. So whereas many other players were beat down from playing in roughly 400 hockey games in the 5 years leading up to age 37, Lemieux played in 85. It's a huge advantage.

Hockey fans routinely discount what a grind and a marathon a hockey season actually is. You think you're being charitable to guys who got injured, but you're also screwing over the guys who showed up to play.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Would you say it's the greatest minus 25 season of all time?

Well, there was Gretzky's 1993-94 season, -25 and 130 points.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I seem to recall Mario also played at times like he was lazy as F and just kinda floated and stood pat. But he was seemingly never in the wrong place or scrambly. His IQ was so high, he basically knew the best place to be. It kinda makes sense though with the pain he endured through most of his career and the low energy he probably had from the cancer treatments.

Jagr late in his career made similar comments about himself. Something along the lines of, "I might not be fast, but I know exactly where to be. Everyone else can quickly go to the wrong place.". I honestly believe he learned a similar skill in predicting the play from Mario.

Mario came into the league, as a teenager, lazy and floating.

Need to watch the Canada Cup (1987) or the Stanley Cup runs of the early 90s to see what he was really capable of doing. Truly magnificent.

 

[SomeDude]

This is why it's so hard to like anything pens related.

Yes, that is why. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the decades of ending your favorite team’s seasons.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

But...could he do it on a cold rainy night in Stoke?

 

[Hunn]

Why do you think that season was under-appreciated? A hockey deity came down from the sky, put eye-popping numbers, and gradually handed keys to next generation.

I remember meeting friends who asked "Seen Mario?" – "Yeah, another 2-3-4-5 points night, f*** Mario", how is it under-appreciated? He left in full glory, with capital "O" on his chest.

 

[John Johnson]

Team Canada had this demon named Hasek.

Lemieux was the only player I can remember who made the Dominator his bitch.

Mario scored 2 goals against him to tie it up 3-3.

You aren't wrong. 7:40 in the video.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Team Canada had this demon named Hasek.

Lemieux was the only player I can remember who made the Dominator his bitch.

Mario scored 2 goals against him to tie it up 3-3.

Hasek struggled against Pittsburgh in general. (Lemieux and Jagr having a lot to do with it). I remember hearing during the 2001 Buffalo series that his career stats against the pens were the worst of all teams.