Are we going to have this discussion again? It’s been discussed over and over again and leads nowhere. It’s tiring and not worth the effort.
Player Discussion Marco Rossi
- Thread starter TaLoN
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BagHead
Registered User
We've drafted 3 centers in 25 seasons that have reached 60 points for us (unless you count Granlund, who did it as a RW). If we spread them out evenly, that's 8.33 season in between each one. I am of the belief this wasn't likely Rossi's best season, either. If he reaches 70 points, he'll be one of only two centers the Wild have ever had reach that point total, drafted or not. It's been 16 years since Koivu did that that one time.Decades to recover from trading Rossi, eh?
Rossi needs a contract right now and the team has no interest in caving to his demands.
Unless you think he's peaked in his second full NHL season and need to get in front of that before everyone else finds out, it doesn't make much sense to move on him before you are fully prepared unless it's for something near-transformational to your team. I think the contract demands are certainly something important to consider, and it might make more sense to bridge him and then trade him. Or at least get your ducks in a row before committing to trading him this off-season by signing a known-quantity as his replacement.
I’ve already said I want him back as a winger. I don’t think he’s what they want or demand in a center and I’m not going to hash out the center vs winger conversation for the zillionth time.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
BagHead
Registered User
No, that's ok, I won't ask you to. I'm actually with you on that too. I think moving him to wing and bringing in Yurov and maybe a free agent that can also play center might be the best way to deal with the situation. At least one of those three should be capable of being the #2 center.
Frankly, I think Rossi has already proven himself as a #2 center, but I can understand why a team without a true #1 center would want an extremely high-end #2 center behind that other high-end #2 center.
BagHead
Registered User
God damnit, I can't type for shit.
We can claim two of them, you're right. It's still a once per decade occurrence.
If you look at 60p centers you can add Staal (x2) and Hartman (x1) to your list of JEE (x2), Koivu (x3), and Rossi (x1). So it's more like a 60p center every 3 years on average. Since 16-17 MN has only had 1 (non-COVID) season without a 60p center.
BagHead
Registered User
For those I did specify ones we've drafted. The list of centers who have scored 60 with the Wild is either 6 or 7, depending on if you want to count Granlund. I don't think it really matters, though, as Rossi is still developing and I expect he'll exceed a 60 point season eventually.
The fact of the matter is that we've only drafted three (or four) 60 point centers in 26 years. It's not a regular occurrence that should just be treated as a throw-away.
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Ryan Hartman did it once and has largely been a 40 point winger since then.
Eric Staal did it twice and then turned 34 and started falling off.
Eriksson Ek has done it twice, we'll see if he can keep doing it, we all do know he's more of a middle six C than a 1st line C.
I mean, really, if you actually think about it, only having 5 guys do it in 25 years is extremely pathetic. It's definitely not a winning strategy. Even if you say it's one 60 point season every 3 years, that's not better. Real teams have one every season. At least one every season.
So it still doesn't make a good excuse to move Rossi short of getting an upgrade that'll last more than a couple seasons.
Eric Staal did it twice and then turned 34 and started falling off.
Eriksson Ek has done it twice, we'll see if he can keep doing it, we all do know he's more of a middle six C than a 1st line C.
I mean, really, if you actually think about it, only having 5 guys do it in 25 years is extremely pathetic. It's definitely not a winning strategy. Even if you say it's one 60 point season every 3 years, that's not better. Real teams have one every season. At least one every season.
So it still doesn't make a good excuse to move Rossi short of getting an upgrade that'll last more than a couple seasons.
Personally I don't care how we get them draft, trade, FA signing.
Just for some comparison in the same time frame. 60p centers drafted and played for the team:
BOS: 2 (Bergeron, Krejci)
PIT: 2 (Malkin, Crosby)
CHI: 2 (Toews, Bedard)
EDM: 3 (RNH, McDavid, Drais)
WIN: 2 (Little, Scheifele)
DAL: 2 (Johnston, Hintz) or 3 if Benn is a center
COL: 4 (MacKinnion, Duchene, ROR, Stastny)
STL: 3? (Thomas, Barbashev?, Backes)
NSH: 0
Without any context MN is better at home-growing 60p centers than PIT and tied with EDM.
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This is quite a useless and/or dishonest way of looking at the situation if you're going to compare our 60 point centers with Pittsburgh and Edmonton.
Not at all. When you look at the complaint. Drafted 60p centers is the only context. Not number of seasons meeting those marks, or points above that mark. When you get that high end center (Crosby/Malkin or McDavid/Drais) you don't really bother drafting more of them.
Rossi isn't in the same league as anyone on that list. RNH is probably the closest imo. JEE and Koivu are at least comparible to Backes and ROR. Koivu could have been in the same catagory as Toews or Bergeron, but he had some injuries. JEE is walking that injury path too sadly.
BagHead
Registered User
I also don't care how we get them. You're hammering on this point that I'm not arguing against. If Rossi has peaked at 60 points, then it's obviously not as big of a deal to get a poor return for him, but if he hasn't and he's got the untapped offense to have one of the top 3 offensive seasons for a center in Wild history, then it becomes a pretty damaging thing to move him for a poor return, and that would take a while to recover from unless we get very lucky. Contenders definitely move highly skilled guys that don't quite fit, but they don't typically get poor returns for them, lest they cease to remain a contender.
There are definitely things I would move him for, and there is definitely a ceiling to how much I would pay him, but that's what made what Button said interesting - all things need to be considered, including how you use the cap you don't spend on him.
I just don't see Rossi as a solution as a top-6 center anymore than Hartman is. I also don't see Yurov as a top-6 center option as a rookie next season (maybe not ever). It's just a bunch of bad options to choose from behind JEE.
Spurgeon
Registered User
Have you watched every KHL game of his or something? You seem extremely confident that he’s going to come in and be able to immediately replace a 60-point center.
I’ve watch as many shift by shift and highlight videos as I can. It doesn’t take long to see that Yurov is a faster skater. To me, he also looks stronger than Rossi. Compete level and hockey IQ go to Rossi. Defensive play and faceoffs are tougher to gauge based on the shift by shift videos and what is expected of him by his KHL team vs what the Wild would expect of him. I heard a report from someone (on JHS?) that Yurov has been putting extra effort this offseason into getting better at faceoffs.
I’m not confident Yurov will immediately replace what Rossi brings next season. That’s what signing Nelson is for if the team does decide to trade Rossi.
I don't understand the rush to move Rossi to a position he has never played, on a team that lacks top 6 C's. Guerin seems fixated on what Rossi isn't(tall, fast), and takes for granted the very desirable qualities he has(scores at top 6 pace, works hard, skill, smart, improves, youth). For a team lacking talented offensive C's, it's f***ing batshit crazy, unless he somehow finds a way to pull a rabbit out of a hat and trades for a legit, young offensive C- I mean how many of them are there that are on the market?
Please don't talk about guys like Pinto. Good player, but has no discernable offensive skill.
Please don't talk about guys like Pinto. Good player, but has no discernable offensive skill.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
If the Wild do not see Rossi as a fit for what they view a center should be, and it’s pretty clear they don’t from the messaging, the options are to play him as a winger or trade him.
Not so sure about the works hard part. Seems clear he does off the ice, but he’s got a questionable motor on the ice. He’s not afraid to get to the crease, but he’s leaves a lot to be desired in the corners and along the boards when it comes to battling.
You make a good point about the dearth of scoring Cs on the market. But perhaps that will help us maximize Rossi’s value. I don’t want to trade him, but it just seems inevitable at this point that Nelson/JEE will be the Top 6 Cs next year.
ctmagic
Registered User
- Jan 15, 2013
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How’s that different from every other NHL level player that’s ever aspired to play Center? Lmfao
It wasn’t meant to be some big thing. It’s just showing that his expectation is he will be at center and he recognizes that his current faceoff ability isn’t where it needs to be.
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