Marc Bergevin 1st interview since being fired

[HuGo Sham]

I blamed Molson, but my god, bergevin is such a paranoid, whiny, little bitch

Chronique | La sérénité et l’héritage de Marc Bergevin

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Known fact............Houle was the front man or a puppet for a one Mr Ronald Corey, this is who you are really talking about.
So, to recap, Houle was a puppet who was told to reduce payroll to less than 30 M, and Bergevin a clown, with the ability to spend to a cap upwards 70-80M.

It's a very close race............one was dealt a bad hand, and it wasn't Bergevin.

Doesn't matter. The resumes aren't even close. You can get a crappy mandate and still not come out with the losses that Houle did. There's nothing that Houle didn't do worse. Less results, worse returns, gave up better pieces and picks, whatever, you name it. Houle was way worse.

 

[417]

I don't think anyone expected that. Some might have expected him to recognize his mistakes a bit more.

There's a spectrum between patting himself on the back for a job well done and blasting himself.

I don't personally think he was over the line, it was a pretty muted interview. At a few points in the interview he talked about things he would take back. Sounds like he recognizes his mistakes but its kind of unrealistic to expect him to beat himself up in an interview about it.

People just don't like him and that's fine, but lets not act like he was extoiling his virtues either.

 

[JianYang]

As destructive as houle's regime was, I gotta give credit for that 1998 draft.

Ribeiro
Beauchemin
Markov
Ryder

Quite the haul.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Doesn't matter. The resumes aren't even close. You can get a crappy mandate and still not come out with the losses that Houle did. There's nothing that Houle didn't do worse. Less results, worse returns, gave up better pieces and picks, whatever, you name it. Houle was way worse.

Bergevin was the worst gm in Habs history. One was trying to win while the other wasn’t.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Bergevin was the worst gm in Habs history. One was trying to win while the other wasn’t.

Yeah and one got better results. It wasn't Houle. Not even close.

 

[HuGort]

Kind of a testament of all I didn't like about MB. It's not about what you do good or bad in a vacuum, it's about the whole picture.

Closer to his departure, accumulating picks was the right move as the team was crashing down quickly.

But early on in his tenure, he was gifted a solid core with a stud in each key position except center: a top 10 goalscoring winger, a Norris caliber defenseman, the best goalie in the league. Trading a first pick or two might have been a good move.

Ultimately, the Habs inability to draft/develop solid players is the biggest weakness of the franchise though.



I strongly disagree, but just wanted to point one thing out.

This team that's "mostly his", has finished 32nd, 28th, 28th and currently ranks 29th in the whole league. By the time it's climbing the standings again, it would be disingenuous to continue calling it "his" team.

Unless you were sarcastic?

Lol. Lost two first ballot hall of Famers while Habs fell. No team can survive that. Not Berg's fault.

Lasting 10 years in Montreal hard to do. Never mind getting to finals. Last 5 GMs couldn't do it. This clown we have now won't neither. Hughes off to bad start. Barron, Dach, Newhook costs us 4 first round picks with little back.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yeah and one got better results. It wasn't Houle. Not even close.

Just stating 'results' is incredibly simplistic and misleading.

Results are based on context and the context for Bergevin is that he was given carte blanche and full cap spending, playing in a league with extra points, while Houle was a Ronald Corey puppet with a mandate to reduce salaries because the Molsons were tight on cash and were too old school to properly market the team.

Speaking of results, you seem to be looking at only one end of the spectrum as Bergevin had 10 years and 3x top 10 picks and managed to beat Houle's worst record (70 points vs 55 points), as both had their worst season when they exited, and Bergevin did that in an era with extra points to boot. That 55 points could've been even worse because Ducharme was sporting a .256 win% and was heading for a 42 points season before being replaced by MSL.

In 6 seasons, Houle managed to draft better than Bergevin did, getting Markov and Ribeiro, which were both better than anyone Bergevin has drafted, with 4 more years to do it.

Yeah sure, Bergevin finished with a better overall record and a covid induced cup run, but he wasn't asked to massively cut down on salaries. Bergevin was the architect of his own demise, while Corey was the architect of Houle's demise.

 

[BLONG7]

Just stating 'results' is incredibly simplistic and misleading.

Results are based on context and the context for Bergevin is that he was given carte blanche and full cap spending, playing in a league with extra points, while Houle was a Ronald Corey puppet with a mandate to reduce salaries because the Molsons were tight on cash and were too old school to properly market the team.

Speaking of results, you seem to be looking at only one end of the spectrum as Bergevin had 10 years and 3x top 10 picks and managed to beat Houle's worst record (70 points vs 55 points), as both had their worst season when they exited, and Bergevin did that in an era with extra points to boot. That 55 points could've been even worse because Ducharme was sporting a .256 win% and was heading for a 42 points season before being replaced by MSL.

In 6 seasons, Houle managed to draft better than Bergevin did, getting Markov and Ribeiro, which were both better than anyone Bergevin has drafted, with 4 more years to do it.

Yeah sure, Bergevin finished with a better overall record and a covid induced cup run, but he wasn't asked to massively cut down on salaries. Bergevin was the architect of his own demise, while Corey was the architect of Houle's demise.

Bergevin inherited a HOF goalie, and promptly did nothing to help him. Also referred to the draft as throwing darts......
And he is wondering why he is running for coffee in LA and no one has hired him?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Just stating 'results' is incredibly simplistic and misleading.

Results are based on context and the context for Bergevin is that he was given carte blanche and full cap spending, playing in a league with extra points, while Houle was a Ronald Corey puppet with a mandate to reduce salaries because the Molsons were tight on cash and were too old school to properly market the team.

Speaking of results, you seem to be looking at only one end of the spectrum as Bergevin had 10 years and 3x top 10 picks and managed to beat Houle's worst record (70 points vs 55 points), as both had their worst season when they exited, and Bergevin did that in an era with extra points to boot. That 55 points could've been even worse because Ducharme was sporting a .256 win% and was heading for a 42 points season before being replaced by MSL.

In 6 seasons, Houle managed to draft better than Bergevin did, getting Markov and Ribeiro, which were both better than anyone Bergevin has drafted, with 4 more years to do it.

Yeah sure, Bergevin finished with a better overall record and a covid induced cup run, but he wasn't asked to massively cut down on salaries. Bergevin was the architect of his own demise, while Corey was the architect of Houle's demise.

If you want to state Houle/Corey/Molson instead of just Houle, be my guest. It makes no difference to me. But the truth of the matter is that you can state all the reasons you want (and they ultimately don't particularly matter because having a more difficult context doesn't justify the actual moves. He could have gotten better returns out of the guys he had to dump).

I'm all for context but in this instance, it becomes little more than a word salad. There is nothing that the Houle regime did better than the Bergevin regime. Not a single thing. God knows they picked a high number of busts too and the draft returns will still be TBD for Bergevin for a while given he's been gone for 3 years as opposed to 25.

If you can name one single thing Houle did better than Bergevin, I'm all ears. You've got the link I posted for reference.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'm all for context but in this instance, it becomes little more than a word salad.

Okay, avoiding context and a condescending conclusion. Back to where you belong.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Okay, avoiding context and a condescending conclusion. Back to where you belong.

I'm not avoiding context. I'm saying that the context still doesn't justify that there isn't a single aspect of GMing that the Houle regime did better than Bergevin. At a certain point, you can justify it all you want, it was all worse across the board. That can't be ignored because one had carte blanche and one didn't. 'Bad hand' doesn't come anywhere close to justify the moves Houle ended up making. Not one bit. Not like the Canadiens weren't still willing to shell out money and long-term deals for the likes of Trevor Linden.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Some of the worst player development under a gm. Thanks for keeping all those 1st round picks and then destroying them with poor player development. Does he wonder why we got so few nhl players out of his drafts?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bergevin essentially bragging that he didn't trade a first round pick his whole time here is legit hilarious. Not only did he (for Dvorak.. thanks Marc) but the ones he held onto the team didn't develop at all. Caufield (where he got lucky) and Guhle, that's it.

There were plenty of runs we could have made (2015 comes to mind) where some talent could have helped. As plenty of mentioned here, there were a ton of C's available to replace Davey smurf that probably would have done us a ton of good in the playoffs in any of the years we made them.

Bergevin was decent at one thing -- making lateral moves and finding a diamond in the rough in the bargain bin every once in a while. Even most of those are debatable years later.

Notice that Caufield and Ghule both developed after he was gone.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Doesn't matter. The resumes aren't even close. You can get a crappy mandate and still not come out with the losses that Houle did. There's nothing that Houle didn't do worse. Less results, worse returns, gave up better pieces and picks, whatever, you name it. Houle was way worse.

Different situations. Houle walked into a declining team. Bergevin f***ed an up and coming team.

I’d say Houle messed up what should’ve been a perfect time to rebuild. Bergevin on the other hand cost us a cup or two.

I think Bergevin was actually worse for us than Houle. Worst possible time for him to get hired and he immediately brings in Therrien. What a f***ing disaster. A decade of ruining prospects too.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Different situations. Houle walked into a declining team. Bergevin f***ed an up and coming team.

I’d say Houle messed up what should’ve been a perfect time to rebuild. Bergevin on the other hand cost us a cup or two.

I think Bergevin was actually worse for us than Houle. Worst possible time for him to get hired and he immediately brings in Therrien. What a f***ing disaster. A decade of ruining prospects too.

Sure, different situations. I'm still not seeing anyone name a single thing that Bergevin was worse at.

Bergevin had a better situation, I won't deny that. But that's it. That doesn't mean he was the worst GM just because he messed up a better situation. Not only did Houle mess up, he has absolutely nothing to hang his hat on. At least Bergevin has multiple good moves.

It's pretty obvious that no one has actually bothered to look at the history of Houle's transactions because when your best move in 5 years is acquiring Sheldon Souray, that's brutal. That's not to get into what he actually gave up and for what in those five years. Get serious. Bergevin was a miser and cost us big but he wasn't Houle. It's not even close.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sure, different situations. I'm still not seeing anyone name a single thing that Bergevin was worse at.

Bergevin had a better situation, I won't deny that. But that's it. That doesn't mean he was the worst GM just because he messed up a better situation. Not only did Houle mess up, he has absolutely nothing to hang his hat on. At least Bergevin has multiple good moves.

It's pretty obvious that no one has actually bothered to look at the history of Houle's transactions because when your best move in 5 years is acquiring Sheldon Souray, that's brutal. That's not to get into what he actually gave up and for what in those five years. Get serious. Bergevin was a miser and cost us big but he wasn't Houle. It's not even close.

Bergevin did little to help with a team that looked like it could be a contender and he did much to hurt it.

Jagr wanted to come here… would’ve been a reasonable contract too. He turns him down. They draft Chuck and play him in the third line when he’s clearly the best offensive center we had and we decide to use DD…. Utter madness. The stupidity was shocking. And not only did he install a terrible coach at the NHL level he did it for the AHL too ensuring that almost all of of prospects would be f***ed.

Yes, he was just as bad. The only reason he’s not remembered that way is because Carey Price saved his stupid ass.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Sure, different situations. I'm still not seeing anyone name a single thing that Bergevin was worse at.

Bergevin had a better situation, I won't deny that. But that's it. That doesn't mean he was the worst GM just because he messed up a better situation. Not only did Houle mess up, he has absolutely nothing to hang his hat on. At least Bergevin has multiple good moves.

It's pretty obvious that no one has actually bothered to look at the history of Houle's transactions because when your best move in 5 years is acquiring Sheldon Souray, that's brutal. That's not to get into what he actually gave up and for what in those five years. Get serious. Bergevin was a miser and cost us big but he wasn't Houle. It's not even close.

Drafting and development has been a 10 year disaster under MB. What are you talking about.?He also hired a coach who publicly berated his star dman on TV on a regular basis before being hired. He doubled down on his foxhole buddy, produced one of the worst seasons in Habs history. Had back to back seasons with 8 game losing streaks. Said he was building through the draft but didn’t add a single first round pick. Treated fan favourites like Markov and Subban with no respect at all and single handedly made the franchise completely unwatchable for many long time fans. The product and the culture around the team was completely toxic under his leadership. f***ing gross. Completely incompetent.

 

[FerrisRox]

Known fact............Houle was the front man or a puppet for a one Mr Ronald Corey, this is who you are really talking about.
So, to recap, Houle was a puppet who was told to reduce payroll to less than 30 M

Being told to cut payroll doesn't mean you have to make absurd trades.

He made awful deals, and he was in a position where he was trading away very valuable assets and could have and should have received high end draft picks and top prospects in return and he failed miserably.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Drafting and development has been a 10 year disaster under MB. What are you talking about.?He also hired a coach who publicly berated his star dman on TV on a regular basis before being hired. He doubled down on his foxhole buddy, produced one of the worst seasons in Habs history. Had back to back seasons with 8 game losing streaks. Said he was building through the draft but didn’t add a single first round pick. Treated fan favourites like Markov and Subban with no respect at all and single handedly made the franchise completely unwatchable for many long time fans. The product and the culture around the team was completely toxic under his leadership. f***ing gross. Completely incompetent.

Who's saying Bergevin wasn't incompetent? I'm saying Houle was even worse than that, which is abundantly clear to anyone who isn't falling victim to recency bias.

 

[BLONG7]

Being told to cut payroll doesn't mean you have to make absurd trades.

He made awful deals, and he was in a position where he was trading away very valuable assets and could have and should have received high end draft picks and top prospects in return and he failed miserably.

He was a puppet for Corey.............he was told what to do. He was also the fall guy for the Roy deal and never complained.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Who's saying Bergevin wasn't incompetent? I'm saying Houle was even worse than that, which is abundantly clear to anyone who isn't falling victim to recency bias.

Let’s agree to disagree. Two different mandates.

 

[the]

Marc Bergevin is the worst GM in Habs history.

Even if for whatever reason it was a tie with Rejean Houle. It would come down to Houle getting some goodwill credit just on the fact he wasn't a arrogant ass.

 

[Runner77]

Some of the worst player development under a gm. Thanks for keeping all those 1st round picks and then destroying them with poor player development. Does he wonder why we got so few nhl players out of his drafts?

The firing of Sylvain Lefebvre couldn't have come a moment too soon. What a dysfunctional coach.

 

[FerrisRox]

He was a puppet for Corey.............he was told what to do. He was also the fall guy for the Roy deal and never complained.

Corey wasn't telling him who to acquire in the trades. You get told to cut payroll, you don't get told who you bring back in the deals.

Houle turned Patrick Roy, Vincent Damphousse, Mark Recchi and Pierre Turgeon into way, way, way too little compared to what he gave up.

Then he turned a 1st round pick into Trevor Linden a couple of months after selling off Recchi and Damphousse for tens cents on the dollar.

He was atrocious, and Corey wasn't the problem.