News Article: Marc-Andre Fleury: Why the Penguins Should Bench Him

[spcastlemagic]

Call me crazy but I like having both Fleury and Vokoun feeling confident, and I will like it even more if we keep steamrolling teams left and right. Goalie tandem for now, hot hand in the playoffs.

 

[Lim Ran]

who is this Billy Nauman? never heard of him.

You have now.


... that's the point.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

i also dont think there are a ton of "fleury haters" out there.

the majority of folks that are skeptical of fleury really want the guy to succeed. we've basically watched the guy grow up. we remember that amazing toe save he made on frolov in his first nhl game. everyone was happy for him when he went down in history making the save on lidstrom (which btw is one of the greatest plays to end a SC final ever). im rooting for the guy... but damn, the flyers series have soured me on him. that was on of the all-time worst goalie performances ever.

hard to erase that memory.

He's had haters since the WJC. Which is a little strange because he's a really likable guy.

I agree though, last year's playoffs was beyond brutal.

 

[Dying Alive]

i also dont think there are a ton of "fleury haters" out there.

the majority of folks that are skeptical of fleury really want the guy to succeed. we've basically watched the guy grow up. we remember that amazing toe save he made on frolov in his first nhl game. everyone was happy for him when he went down in history making the save on lidstrom (which btw is one of the greatest plays to end a SC final ever). im rooting for the guy... but damn, the flyers series have soured me on him. that was on of the all-time worst goalie performances ever. hard to erase that memory.

I actually disagree with that. I think there is a large yinzer contingent on the fringe who root for players to fail so they can feel superior that "they knew it all along." That's not unique to Fleury or even to the Pens. In fact, I can't think of a single current top tier Pittsburgh athlete who doesn't have a vocal group of yinzers rooting for him to fail outside of Sid and maybe Andrew McCutchen, and if the Pirates were more relevant the list would probably start and end with Sid.

Call me crazy but I like having both Fleury and Vokoun feeling confident, and I will like it even more if we keep steamrolling teams left and right. Goalie tandem for now, hot hand in the playoffs.

This is pretty much where I am. All last season (and large parts of many seasons) people wondered how the Pens would do if they had a competent backup to push Fleury & give him some relief so that he doesn't have to play 70ish regular season games. Well, now we have one.

 

[Crafton]

You have now.


... that's the point.

how is that the point? the guy has three articles to his name.

more investigation reveals:
-he has a blog
-he has 89 twitter followers
-his analysis of the Staal trade is stunningly succinct

Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

 

[Lim Ran]

... Right, exactly.

Sometimes people in the media write things for attention. Shocking?

 

[Shockmaster]

Love how the article comes out after Fleury makes huge saves during a penalty filled evening. Perfect timing for the no-name writer!

I think right now the Penguins won't start Fleury for more than two games in a row. When playoff time comes closer, they'll likely increase his workload to get him ready.

 

[Crafton]

... Right, exactly.

Sometimes people in the media write things for attention. Shocking?

you should have just called him a hack in the first place.

from what you wrote i thought you were insinuating that he was some young up-and-comer that we needed to give a chance to.

 

[ColePens]

Yikes... this is going to end up one bloody argument. Fleury is the perfect debate because his ceiling/talent is that of an elite goalie, but he has not put it together consistently over his career.

However, his Stanley Cup run leaves a lot of weaponry for Fleury fans to fight with.

For me - I'm staying out of this one and watching how the career plays out. That will be the only way to tell. As of now, I put him on a second tier behind the elite goalies. But being in the second tier is not a bad thing. There are some pretty damn good goalies there.

 

[Mordax]

 

[Bishop7979]

Part of me thinks that a team like the Redwings have developed a really good approach to goaltending.

Howard is only making $2.250 and they signed Gustavsson for $1.5M.

So they are dedicating only $3.750M to their goaltending, which means they can spend more dollars on wingers/defenseman. Before Howard, they signed vererans like Chris Osgood who managed to put up decent numbers.

They are definitely approaching their goaltending position with a value-oriented strategy. e.g. try to get halfway decent goaltending without signing high-priced goalies ala Bryzgalov

I wouldn't mind if we cut Fleury loose in a couple years and started taking a similar strategy. Don't get me wrong he is a good goalie, but I question whether his play is worth justifying such a large cap hit. $5M is a big number for a cap-strapped team.

The reason why the Wings were able to get away with this for years was because they had a great defense built around Lidstrom... look at them this year, 4-4 with two goalies who have sub .900 save percentages and over 3.00 GAAs

 

[jigglysquishy]

Is no one going to point out that he actually has a .907% and is 18th in the league?

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Hyperbole of the article notwithstanding, I agree with the premise.

Vokoun has never played on a good team. I get the feeling you could ride him to a Cup. With Fleury I get the feeling he may make 3 spectacular saves every playoff game but let in 2 softies.

Yeah you definitely may be able to ride Vokoun to a cup. No chance with a guy like Fleury back there though.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Is no one going to point out that he actually has a .907% and is 18th in the league?

Yeah the article was definitely written before the stats from yesterdays game when that sv % was coorrect.

 

[BreakfastatMarios]

I dont consider Fleurry elite, but I do consider him very good.

But consider his salary to is perfomance and how it equates to his peers

Fleurry - Penguins makes 5,000,000
Jonathan Quick - Kings Makes 5,800,000
Henrik Lundqvist Rangeres Makes 6.875,000
Ilya Bryzgalov 5,666,667
Martin Brodeur 4,500,000

I think folks get caught up more with what Fleurry makes salary wise and his perceived value for what he gets paid, more so his results/ability.

My point is 5 million is what it takes nowadays to get a good Goalie, you can get Goalies for a lower value but the way the Penguins are structured thats like putting plastic wheel covers on a Mercedes Bens.

 

[regard]

I saw this on twitter, Kuklas Korner posted it. I unfollowed KK after reading it because it reads like stupid angry HF troll garbage. I'll stay firmly out of this too I think. Debating goalie value and cap structure is one thing. Just saying he needs to be benched and listing a few stats is nonsense. Even if he was really that bad it wouldnt even make sense as hes playing well right now and thered be a better course of action.

 

[TheSniper26]

The Cup was great, but he can't milk that forever. A lot of fairly mediocre goalies have won cups. Look at the guy who beat us in '08. He had two shutouts to start that series. Nothing against Osgood, but I don't think many people would have mistaken him for an elite goalie then.

All statistical discussion aside, at some point, he'll have to find success in the playoffs again to justify his place as our starter. That's really what this comes down to. I'm not keen on losing another year of Sid/Geno's prime because Fleury has a meltdown in the playoffs again(amongst other problems this team has). The upcoming postseason is make or break time in my opinion.

 

[Shockmaster]

The Cup was great, but he can't milk that forever. A lot of fairly mediocre goalies have won cups. Look at the guy who beat us in '08. He had two shutouts to start that series. Nothing against Osgood, but I don't think many people would have mistaken him for an elite goalie then.

All statistical discussion aside, at some point, he'll have to find success in the playoffs again to justify his place as our starter. That's really what this comes down to. I'm not keen on losing another year of Sid/Geno's prime because Fleury has a meltdown in the playoffs again(amongst other problems this team has). The upcoming postseason is make or break time in my opinion.

Fleury has only had a meltdown once: Against Philadelphia - and he wasn't getting much help. Tampa Bay wasn't his fault, it was the poor PP (1 for 35). Montreal was a lack of secondary scoring (Geno's line was a no-show). You can quote stats all you want, but you need to get your head out of the box scores and out of the fantasy leagues and watch the game (I know, only lame people watch the games ).

With some of you, you always gotta blame the most visible guy. In football, it's the QB. In hockey, it's the goalie. Forget how often the WRs drop catchable balls! It's the QB's fault! Forget all the turnovers in the defensive zone, it's all the goalie's fault! Now when the backup is in, he gets a pass. Dixon blows it in OT in Baltimore - "leave him alone! He played well!" Vokoun lets in that goal in Washington off the glass when it almost happened earlier in the game "he did the right thing by going back! It's what the coaches want the goalie to do!" My god, if Fleury let that one in the pitchforks would be out.

The truth of the matter is, no matter how badly you want to run him out of town, the team and the players have confidence in him, confidence that is well-justified. He's the number one goalie, and Shero is going to find a way to resign him (and no, not for less money).

 

[TheSniper26]

Oh great, Shockmaster is back with his accusations that only Fleury supporters "watch the games". It's nonsense that you spew because you have no actual facts to back up your argument. Dismiss stats all you want, but they are at least something to support my opinion. Your opinion is based on nothing more than your own skewed perception.

Your insistence that people who don't agree with you aren't watching the games is bordering on trolling at this point.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

Yeah you definitely may be able to ride Vokoun to a cup. No chance with a guy like Fleury back there though.

Yep, we'll never win a Stanley Cup with Fleury. We certainly couldn't ever imagine making two straight Stanley cup finals, winning one of them, with Fleury putting up Conn Smythe worthy numbers in one of the runs. That's out of the question for Fleury.

I apologize if I missed your sarcasm

 

[Tafkak]

The reason why the Wings were able to get away with this for years was because they had a great defense built around Lidstrom... look at them this year, 4-4 with two goalies who have sub .900 save percentages and over 3.00 GAAs

I was able to point that out before you did. I don't feel as though the Wings are a very good example to point to. They're definitely struggling in goal this year, and to be honest last year, as well.

 

[Hottubber]

I was able to point that out before you did. I don't feel as though the Wings are a very good example to point to. They're definitely struggling in goal this year, and to be honest last year, as well.

Not defending the Wings goalies, but losing Rafalski, Lidstrom and Stuart in the past 3-4 years doesnt help much either

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If not for Fleury we do not win that game against the Isles last night. Kind of funny this story popped up after one of Fleury's better performances.

 

[TheSniper26]

If not for Fleury we do not win that game against the Isles last night. Kind of funny this story popped up after one of Fleury's better performances.

Yeah, Fleury was stellar last night. Strange timing. That said, it says a lot about his struggles in recent years that his biggest praise has become stuff like "He's not a problem right now!" or "He was good against the Islanders last game". To me, it's clear that even some of his biggest supporters are a bit nervous about his game after last postseason.

Hopefully Vokoun pushes him to stay at the top of his game. I think the shortened season will help too.

 

[alcanalz]

Hyperbole of the article notwithstanding, I agree with the premise.

Vokoun has never played on a good team. I get the feeling you could ride him to a Cup. With Fleury I get the feeling he may make 3 spectacular saves every playoff game but let in 2 softies.

The 2006 Predators weren't good? They were fantastic.

I didn't even read the article when he said his .897 this year was abysmal. Anyone who has even watched the slightest bit of Penguin hockey this year knows at the very least he's been "good".

Fleury has been elite and playoff collapse last year aside, will be again. Not going to bother giving hits to this guy who is obviously just trying to bait people in to reading that.

What's next, "why Crosby is a bust and the Penguins should trade him for picks"?