Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

[theguardianII]

@F A N & @Jyrki21 I spent a lot of time over the last couple days trying to figure this out. I talked to a Penguins beat writer and on yesterday's Canucks Conversation David Quadrelli and Patrick Johnston added a bit more info. The short of it, when a player is sent down for cap purposes they do not have to report. However, if it is a game day in the AHL then they do have to report. When the Canucks first sent Brannstrom and Bains down, it wasn't a paper transaction and both had to report, according to Thomas Drance. No idea if they kept doing this or subsequent assignments were paper transactions.

I think some of this bouncing back and forth might be financially related. 80K isn't a lot of money and each day on the big club's roster is a massive pay increase.

With the cost of living in the Vancouver area that extra few grand really helps and what player with a family or not really wants to live on the edge.

 

[Hodgy]

What I saw was quite a bit worse than that. I'm not grabbing my pitchfork yet, maybe he comes back Dec 3 at 100%. But it's close at hand, it's entirely believable to me that they majorly bungled another injury on this team.

There was that one time, I think with the Higgins injury, that they hired what appears to be a doctor that was t competent, and I think in circumstances like that it’s more than fair to criticize management.

But if they hire objectively competent doctors and follow their advice then notwithstanding the consequences it’s hard to fault them imo. Was there another circumstance other than Higgins?

 

[rypper]

I think some of this bouncing back and forth might be financially related. 80K isn't a lot of money and each day on the big club's roster is a massive pay increase.

With the cost of living in the Vancouver area that extra few grand really helps and what player with a family or not really wants to live on the edge.

It goes both ways. With the bouncing up and down Bains and others have done, it helps the Canucks cap picture for the deadline but hits the players wallet.

But calling up a guy like Elias Pettersson for a few days, not playing him, he still gets rewarded with some extra money.

 

[Vector]

It goes both ways. With the bouncing up and down Bains and others have done, it helps the Canucks cap picture for the deadline but hits the players wallet.

But calling up a guy like Elias Pettersson for a few days, not playing him, he still gets rewarded with some extra money.

They’ve also had a couple opportunities where hey could have sent players down on off-days and didn’t.

 

[MW6]

Caps fan here making a friendly inquiry about a possible deal for Conor Garland? In exchange the main piece would be your choice of our surplus of top-4 D-men, Rasmus Sandin or Martin Fehervary. Sandin has been excellent this year but comes with a bigger contract. Fehervary is a better skater and better defensively, plus being cheaper but will probably never carry a pair but can easily handle hard assignments.
I’m open to expand the trade to make it work for both teams both value- and needs wise.

 

[mathonwy]

Caps fan here making a friendly inquiry about a possible deal for Conor Garland? In exchange the main piece would be your choice of our surplus of top-4 D-men, Rasmus Sandin or Martin Fehervary. Sandin has been excellent this year but comes with a bigger contract. Fehervary is a better skater and better defensively, plus being cheaper but will probably never carry a pair but can easily handle hard assignments.
I’m open to expand the trade to make it work for both teams both value- and needs wise.

3rd round pick would have done it last season.

 

[MW6]

3rd round pick would have done it last season.

Any estimation right now?

 

[F A N]

Caps fan here making a friendly inquiry about a possible deal for Conor Garland? In exchange the main piece would be your choice of our surplus of top-4 D-men, Rasmus Sandin or Martin Fehervary. Sandin has been excellent this year but comes with a bigger contract. Fehervary is a better skater and better defensively, plus being cheaper but will probably never carry a pair but can easily handle hard assignments.
I’m open to expand the trade to make it work for both teams both value- and needs wise.

Any estimation right now?

I think Garland for Fehervary/Sandin 1 for 1 with or without some throwins is fair value from the Canucks' end.

From our end, it's difficult to predict trade value. Before it sure sounded like the Canucks wanted to dump Garland but Garland was a driving force being what was one of the best 3rd lines in hockey last season. Certainly it appears that Tocchet loves him but I'm not sure management does.

I would image that Fehervary being more attractive to the Canucks but Sandin is the more talented player. I feel it has more to do with who management sees as the better top 4 option. It's the same with Capitals management? Sandin is at all viewed as good defensively his value should be higher than Fehervary. Fehervary

As you can see, our management has preferred big defensive Dmen but we've had issues with our bottom 4 not being able to move the puck. That's why Brannstrom is getting a lot of love here. So which Dman would Canucks' management prefer? I don't know. I would lean towards Fehervary being preferred. Personally, I think Sandin with Willander as a future pairing might make more sense than Fehervary with Willander but Fehervary is cheaper (which is important with the OEL buyout) and he can shoulder a defensive role and PK.

 

[mriswith]

Any estimation right now?

He's probably not available. He carried the team for half the year last year and got a big ice time bump this year, so far he's averaging the most ice time at ES of any forward on the team which indicates to me that the team finally recognizes his importance. He's a line driver, scores even strength points at a first line rate and does it without needing the big guns on the ice with him to do it. Biggest heart on the team and a lot of nights he's the guy dragging the team into the fight. Generally near the top of the league for penalties drawn because he gets mugged out there every night. I'd be shocked if we traded him.

Hoglander is the winger that's available right now and I'd imagine he'd be cheap.

 

[Hodgy]

He's probably not available. He carried the team for half the year last year and got a big ice time bump this year, so far he's averaging the most ice time at ES of any forward on the team which indicates to me that the team finally recognizes his importance. He's a line driver, scores even strength points at a first line rate and does it without needing the big guns on the ice with him to do it. Biggest heart on the team and a lot of nights he's the guy dragging the team into the fight. Generally near the top of the league for penalties drawn because he gets mugged out there every night. I'd be shocked if we traded him.

Hoglander is the winger that's available right now and I'd imagine he'd be cheap.

Not only that, but as the cap rises Garland’s contract gets better and better. Can’t imagine they are looking to trade him.

 

[strattonius]

Caps fan here making a friendly inquiry about a possible deal for Conor Garland? In exchange the main piece would be your choice of our surplus of top-4 D-men, Rasmus Sandin or Martin Fehervary. Sandin has been excellent this year but comes with a bigger contract. Fehervary is a better skater and better defensively, plus being cheaper but will probably never carry a pair but can easily handle hard assignments.
I’m open to expand the trade to make it work for both teams both value- and needs wise.

I know it sounds crazy but I think Garland is nearly untouchable. We have a lot of North-South players but Garland brings a nice balance because he's a playmaker that plays hard. It just seems whatever line you put Garland on will start to find some success. It's not that he's a core untouchable player, it's that he's a unique forward that we need as we compete in the playoffs. I think if there's a way we improve our blueline it won't be at the expense of Garland.

 

[tyhee]

Caps fan here making a friendly inquiry about a possible deal for Conor Garland? In exchange the main piece would be your choice of our surplus of top-4 D-men, Rasmus Sandin or Martin Fehervary. Sandin has been excellent this year but comes with a bigger contract. Fehervary is a better skater and better defensively, plus being cheaper but will probably never carry a pair but can easily handle hard assignments.
I’m open to expand the trade to make it work for both teams both value- and needs wise.

You've picked a good target. The downside with picking a good target who is fitting in well with his present team is that you have to overpay to get him. That's the situation with Garland right now and I think the Canucks would find it painful to part with him. As has been mentioned there wasn't a good fit in Garland's first season with the Canucks and there was a time he was available for next to nothing.

Right now the Canucks' biggest, perhaps desperate, need is a good sized 2nd pair puck moving defenceman. It is debatable but might also work to get a right shot defenceman who has some size and is good enough to play on the top pair with Hughes.

From past acquisitions the Canucks have appeared to believe in having big defencemen but their regulars now include a very small d-man in Hughes, a fairly short d-man in Brannstrom and a below average sized d-man in Hronek. It is unlikely they'd see Sandin as a good fit given their present personnel.

Given that I don't remember much about Fehervary I'm not going to speculate whether he might be a fit nor what his trade value might be. The Canucks pro scouts would have to consider him competent at zone exits and good enough to play 2nd pair minutes OR sound defensively and good enough to play 1st pair minutes on the right side with Hughes for there to be a possibility of a deal with him being the main piece going to the Canucks.

 

[theguardianII]

Hronek injured?

Who the F knows.

This in house medias interview by a single in house media person are so scripted information is ignored and spoon fed.

So if he is injured then Soucy becomes the #2, or is it Myers, Deharnais, Juulsen or Brannstrom?

Hronek looked like it could be a broken collar bone or separated shoulder either results in a long time off. The Canucks are hanging on to a possible WC2 spot by a point or two.
The cap restricts what who the team can go after.
They may rotate many AHL guys up through the back end but where is the top guy?

Jiricek trade rumors are out there and Columbus/eastern media do say he is a top 2 dman already but can't break the CLB lineup, he isn't as good a Weeger yet, not as big or nasty as Gudbranson or Severson and they just got a more experienced Fabbro. For them there is no cap restriction that might force them to play a lower paid salary on to the team so Jiricek wallows behind.

But for the Canucks he is almost perfect. He is bloodied in the NHL already, has good size and does hit, good first pass and very good skating/positional play, Right handed and larger at 6'3" 200+lbs.
His cap hit fits with what the Canucks have available now without going into LTIR and his potential is a top pairing dman.

My thoughts are Willander should be a trade asset. He will not be able to help the Canucks for a couple of more years and will still be behind a veterans and Hronek. If has never played in any professional games anywhere.
He is a fit for CLB because it will be 3 or 4 years before a top 4 dman spot opens up if he can play.
If the Canucks do finish in a PO spot then their 1rst rnd draft pick will be 16 to 32 so that could make it another asset.
Throw in Deharnais, Juulsen or Freidman and they might bite.
Any player the Canucks add in might be worth it although the reportig about EP in the AHL have been promising but he would be replacing Deharnais or Forbort.

But what is good for the future and right now might not be what Tocchet wants.
I am sure he would want a veteran top 4 RHD dman with size and term, something the team just doesn't have.

If Hronek does have a more severe injury and they sit and try to wait it out so they have more cap space for a rental at the TDL, they may not even be there then because the schedule gets hard from now on with teams really ramping it up that have more desperation, asset depth and cap space competing for a WC spot. There are 6 teams within 4 points of WC2 in the western conference.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Tocchet is going to get himself fired at this rate

When you don’t have the D core for it, change and adapt your system

Instead he kept trying to protect 1-2 goals lead for 20 mins

 

[VanJack]

Tocchet is going to get himself fired at this rate

When you don’t have the D core for it, change and adapt your system

Instead he kept trying to protect 1-2 goals lead for 20 mins

Not sure there's much Tocchet can do with the current state of the blueline.

Even when the Canucks went up 3-1, you knew Buffalo was going to make a push. And this defense just doesn't have the horses to stem to tide. And you can't play Quinn Hughes 30 minutes every night.

It's really over to Allvin. He's probably going to forced to make a trade that he was hoping to avoid this early in the season.

 

[Diablo2020]

Hronek injured?

Who the F knows.

This in house medias interview by a single in house media person are so scripted information is ignored and spoon fed.

So if he is injured then Soucy becomes the #2, or is it Myers, Deharnais, Juulsen or Brannstrom?

Hronek looked like it could be a broken collar bone or separated shoulder either results in a long time off. The Canucks are hanging on to a possible WC2 spot by a point or two.
The cap restricts what who the team can go after.
They may rotate many AHL guys up through the back end but where is the top guy?

Jiricek trade rumors are out there and Columbus/eastern media do say he is a top 2 dman already but can't break the CLB lineup, he isn't as good a Weeger yet, not as big or nasty as Gudbranson or Severson and they just got a more experienced Fabbro. For them there is no cap restriction that might force them to play a lower paid salary on to the team so Jiricek wallows behind.

But for the Canucks he is almost perfect. He is bloodied in the NHL already, has good size and does hit, good first pass and very good skating/positional play, Right handed and larger at 6'3" 200+lbs.
His cap hit fits with what the Canucks have available now without going into LTIR and his potential is a top pairing dman.

My thoughts are Willander should be a trade asset. He will not be able to help the Canucks for a couple of more years and will still be behind a veterans and Hronek. If has never played in any professional games anywhere.
He is a fit for CLB because it will be 3 or 4 years before a top 4 dman spot opens up if he can play.
If the Canucks do finish in a PO spot then their 1rst rnd draft pick will be 16 to 32 so that could make it another asset.
Throw in Deharnais, Juulsen or Freidman and they might bite.
Any player the Canucks add in might be worth it although the reportig about EP in the AHL have been promising but he would be replacing Deharnais or Forbort.

But what is good for the future and right now might not be what Tocchet wants.
I am sure he would want a veteran top 4 RHD dman with size and term, something the team just doesn't have.

If Hronek does have a more severe injury and they sit and try to wait it out so they have more cap space for a rental at the TDL, they may not even be there then because the schedule gets hard from now on with teams really ramping it up that have more desperation, asset depth and cap space competing for a WC spot. There are 6 teams within 4 points of WC2 in the western conference.

Once upon a time we were in talks to trade #7 overall in 2018 for Noah Hanifin because "hughes or dobson will take a couple years anyways whereas Hanifin is bloodied" or something like that.

Tommy was drafted #11 overall. He's got NHL size and strength already by most accounts.

Id rather keep Willander personally. Not to mention potentially adding to Tom.

 

[rypper]

Once upon a time we were in talks to trade #7 overall in 2018 for Noah Hanifin because "hughes or dobson will take a couple years anyways whereas Hanifin is bloodied" or something like that.

Tommy was drafted #11 overall. He's got NHL size and strength already by most accounts.

Id rather keep Willander personally. Not to mention potentially adding to Tom.

That was a suggestion by a complete jackass idiot who was run out of town pretty quickly after. Also he suggested Pettersson should be in the ahl. Not the fan base as a whole.

 

[oba]

Hronek injured?

Who the F knows.

This in house medias interview by a single in house media person are so scripted information is ignored and spoon fed.

So if he is injured then Soucy becomes the #2, or is it Myers, Deharnais, Juulsen or Brannstrom?

Hronek looked like it could be a broken collar bone or separated shoulder either results in a long time off. The Canucks are hanging on to a possible WC2 spot by a point or two.
The cap restricts what who the team can go after.
They may rotate many AHL guys up through the back end but where is the top guy?

Jiricek trade rumors are out there and Columbus/eastern media do say he is a top 2 dman already but can't break the CLB lineup, he isn't as good a Weeger yet, not as big or nasty as Gudbranson or Severson and they just got a more experienced Fabbro. For them there is no cap restriction that might force them to play a lower paid salary on to the team so Jiricek wallows behind.

But for the Canucks he is almost perfect. He is bloodied in the NHL already, has good size and does hit, good first pass and very good skating/positional play, Right handed and larger at 6'3" 200+lbs.
His cap hit fits with what the Canucks have available now without going into LTIR and his potential is a top pairing dman.

My thoughts are Willander should be a trade asset. He will not be able to help the Canucks for a couple of more years and will still be behind a veterans and Hronek. If has never played in any professional games anywhere.
He is a fit for CLB because it will be 3 or 4 years before a top 4 dman spot opens up if he can play.
If the Canucks do finish in a PO spot then their 1rst rnd draft pick will be 16 to 32 so that could make it another asset.
Throw in Deharnais, Juulsen or Freidman and they might bite.
Any player the Canucks add in might be worth it although the reportig about EP in the AHL have been promising but he would be replacing Deharnais or Forbort.

But what is good for the future and right now might not be what Tocchet wants.
I am sure he would want a veteran top 4 RHD dman with size and term, something the team just doesn't have.

If Hronek does have a more severe injury and they sit and try to wait it out so they have more cap space for a rental at the TDL, they may not even be there then because the schedule gets hard from now on with teams really ramping it up that have more desperation, asset depth and cap space competing for a WC spot. There are 6 teams within 4 points of WC2 in the western conference.

If they do get this D, hopefully they also get the 2027 1st. (Dupont)

 

[theguardianII]

Is it too soon to think about Hughes and his contract ending in two seasons?

Management must be considering when that time comes. Does that have any influence on what they are doing now?

He will be a FA for the first time so he will have carde blanche to sign anywhere and he will get top dollar no matter where so it will be totally his decision.
Allvin etal can't just assume he stays, they must be thinking of alternatives or what could be needed to keep him here.

Vancouver can be intense with the fan pressures, not many places he can go and be just another ordinary guy on the streets.

I think it is pretty well known he is very much connected to his family considering they all live in the same house back east in the off season and he has made a comment about playing with his brothers.

In New Jersey he would have a lot more anonymity and life style.

Being the Captain might not mean as much as family.

Are the Canucks thinking that far ahead? Are they going all in now because they think he might go so they want to get as much out of his play here now as possible?

If they are thinking of it they must have possible plans.

 

[rypper]

Is it too soon to think about Hughes and his contract ending in two seasons?

Yes.

 

[Peen]

Is it too soon to think about Hughes and his contract ending in two seasons?

Management must be considering when that time comes. Does that have any influence on what they are doing now?

He will be a FA for the first time so he will have carde blanche to sign anywhere and he will get top dollar no matter where so it will be totally his decision.
Allvin etal can't just assume he stays, they must be thinking of alternatives or what could be needed to keep him here.

Vancouver can be intense with the fan pressures, not many places he can go and be just another ordinary guy on the streets.

I think it is pretty well known he is very much connected to his family considering they all live in the same house back east in the off season and he has made a comment about playing with his brothers.

In New Jersey he would have a lot more anonymity and life style.

Being the Captain might not mean as much as family.

Are the Canucks thinking that far ahead? Are they going all in now because they think he might go so they want to get as much out of his play here now as possible?

If they are thinking of it they must have possible plans.

i don't think it's ever too early to think about these things, but i'd frame it through a different lens.

management and ownership have to be aware of it. can they get the new practice facility in order asap? can they sustain a winning culture in the short term and not totally tank the organization's future outlook so that there's a sustainable path to winning in 5 years when QH is 3 years into that next deal? it just pushes urgency and the need to be successful.

if he goes he goes, c'est la vie. look at it through the lens of being critical of the steps management and ownership are taking. frankly i think players should have shorter contracts so that it causes more accountability

 

[Bleach Clean]

Listening to Drance on Canucks Talk, management was unsure about repeating the tall-dman roster strategy from last year. They did it as a trial this year. Meaning, it is not a template they believe in wholeheartedly. That is great news to me.

The focus has to be quality and not traits. Desharnais has a monstrous profile, but is on the outs because he can't play well enough. Soucy and Myers had strugged. Forbort wasn't a concern while Brannstrom was excelling etc...

Hopefully, that trial period is nearing its end and they work to increase the skill on defense, even at the expense of size.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

A lot of shade is being thrown towards Tocchet, and while I do have some criticisms myself, I do think Allvin deserves more. Whether it's him, Rutherford or both, they clearly overestimated what were career seasons from several players.

Soucy has never once been a top 4 defenseman but in the unique capacity we played him last season, he looked the part. Likewise, Myers was able to... well, I won't say flourish, but certainly look better than he ever has. We essentially rolled two fantastic third pairings and leaned on whichever duo was having a good stretch of games.

Instead of seeing that for what it was, we seemingly decided Soucy could manage on his own and/or Myers was better than advertised. The end results speak for themselves.

All this to say, we woefully missed the mark not addressing a need pretty much everyone pointed to: defense.

On the whole, I like Allvin's additions this season but I still question what the purpose of Heinen was. He's far from a bad player but just... not needed? They talked a lot about wanting young guys to challenge for spots but in reality, we only made one spot available. Like I said, Heinen isn't a bad signing just... unnecessary.

The real issue is wasting money on Forbort and especially Desharnais. Just for the hell of it, I played around with Puckpedia. If we signed neither, we could have afforded Tanev with zero other roster changes.

That isn't to say 4.5x6 is a good contract for Tanev but it really goes to show getting a bunch of middling players and hoping to squeeze some unseen potential out of them was... a really bad decision.

 

[rypper]

I think they got a little ahead of themselves. They looked at what would have helped the team in the playoffs and made additions without realizing they still need to get to the playoffs, and their subtractions will have a bigger impact on that.

Heinen will be a guy that when you lose a winger or two to injury he can fill in up and down the lineup. They brought in some trees on defense because of how much they were getting hammered. There's logic behind the moves but they put too much stock in ifs and maybes.