Management Thread | Regular Season Edition
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mriswith
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2011
- 4,691
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The massive action since the Horvat trade is night and day to the sitting on their hands they largely did for the first year. This is the kind of roster turnover I've been wanting since day 1 and it's the kind of turnover necessary to get where the roster needs to be from where it started.
Win or lose, this remains a historical and glorious day for Orca nation.
Go to hell JEB, you incompetent bumbling buffoon!
Go to hell JEB, you incompetent bumbling buffoon!
Not even bad GMs do Jim Benning things….
- May 3, 2021
- 9,083
- 9,097
Nobody:
Benning: just strolls in and takes a dump right in the middle of the floor, falls in it, gets some in his hair, gets confused and tastes some, somehow cannot identify.
Handed eight years and nearly a billion bucks to allocate.
Benning: just strolls in and takes a dump right in the middle of the floor, falls in it, gets some in his hair, gets confused and tastes some, somehow cannot identify.
Handed eight years and nearly a billion bucks to allocate.
SillyRabbit
Trix Are For Kids
- Jan 3, 2006
- 9,504
- 9,834
The truth is that the window for this team is now.
Miller is having what is almost certainly his peak season.
Hughes is young but he could be having one of the best seasons of his entire career.
Boeser's going to easily surpass his career high in goals.
There's no guarantee Pettersson stays, and while he's played terribly the past 10-12 games, when he's healthy he's a game-breaking talent.
I have absolutely zero issues with any of our prospects, and any of our picks / future picks being up for grabs in order to improve the team's defence so that we can make a run this season.
This is an important point.
Our window is now. We really need to go for it if we are actually wanting to be a playoff contender.
Our current cap structure is all screwed because of Benning and his ludicrously dumb decisions, but we do legitmately have the pieces for a very good core (#1 centre, #1 defenseman, franchise tender).
Just f***ing send it
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
Separate from a playoff thread, someone needs to start an anti-tank thread where the discussion focuses on the only realistic window in the next half decade, and going all in for a deep playoff run now.
I already have the opening-post gif ready.
HairyKneel
Registered User
- Jun 5, 2023
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The window should be for the next 5 - 7 years with competent management. Not one year, that’s laughable.
Grumbler
Registered User
- Oct 25, 2012
- 3,123
- 881
The main challenge facing this team is the salary cap. If we choose to build around this core group, our goal must be to win the cup this year. Simply making the playoffs and "playing well" will not suffice; in fact, it would be harmful to the team. The aftermath would hit hard next year as the team would lose talent. Losing Toffoli and other key personnel after the 2020 covid playoffs demonstrated just how harmful this can be.
The mechanics of the OEL buyout, Petey still being under contract, and getting incredible value out of Miller, Hughes, and Hronek right now do indicate that this season really should be their big push.
Right now they're basically getting all the benefit of the OEL buyout. After this, they'll have a significant hit on the books. Petey's contract will balloon. Hronek's deal will balloon. And potentially are looking at career seasons for Miller and Hughes. They should be maximizing this season. This is a team that should be a contender now (but isn't, for obvious reasons).
After this season, they're not going to be getting the same surplus value from this group of players. And you're only looking at a few more seasons before Demko and Hughes need new contracts.
HairyKneel
Registered User
- Jun 5, 2023
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There’s lots of ways to skin the cat. Who knows what deals come available especially if the team has some success this year. I’m well aware of the increase in the OEL dead money. Like I said competent management is key.
I’m not a doom and gloom fella like a lot of folks.
I’m not a doom and gloom fella like a lot of folks.
It's not doom and gloom to state banal facts about players' contract statuses.
Teams that win Cups don't have all their top players playing at market value. The Canucks are currently benefitting from huge value deals on their top players, but that won't be the case going forward.
As a cautious old man, I feel like pumping the brakes a little.
I agree with those that say there is a window now that is wider than it is likely to be for some time after. The reasons people are raising for the window being wider open now than is likely the next few seasons seem valid.
How wide is our current window? What are our chances for:
-playoffs?
-win two playoff rounds?
-win a Stanley Cup?
Next, now much is each of those worth in future pain? We already are at a stage where our future is weaker than it might have been because we've been dealing future assets for current success. The management team has now turned around the old ways of dealing future assets for nothing worthwhile, but we still have less in the way of future assets than we might have had. I'm not saying that to complain, just to point out that we are short of young players we might have had for the future already, picks traded to acquire, for example, Miller and Hronek, to get us to where we are today.
How much more of the future is it worth to get a bit better?
My own impression is that the Canucks' chances of making the playoffs are very good, to win a playoff round reasonable, that winning two playoff rounds would be against the odds and their chances of winning a Stanley Cup this season are small.
What is it worth in futures traded away to increase the chances of making the playoffs? To my mind very, very little. The chances are already good and increasing the already very good chances is not a goal that is worth harming the future for.
What is it worth in futures to make the semi-finals? Certainly having a good enough team to battle for a conference title is something that would make losing more palatable for a couple of years. It is worth something, but I really don't want to spend another several years in the wilderness we've just exited with the Canucks losing most of the time in order to win an extra round of the playoffs this year.
What about a Cup? Ahhh. Right now I suspect most Canuck fans would happily spend 6 years losing if it was partly a consequence of moves made to put the Canucks over the top to win a Cup?
What are the chances that this team can be improved enough to actually have a very good chance to win the 2024 Stanlely Cup?
I think the chances of that happening are very poor. To me, we wouldn't get enough from trading Willander, Silovs and our 2024 1st round pick to make winning the Cup very likely-and for anything less than that level of success, that would be too big a price to pay imo.
I can understand the thought and emotion behind taking a team that is in the top three or four in the league and boosting their chances of winning the Cup to make it as likely as not. When your team is approximately 8th best in the league (right now the Canucks' points percentage is 9th in the league after Boston, Florida, Detroit, NYR, Colorado, Dallas, Vegas and LA) I don't think it worth several years of mediocrity or worse to get to about 6th best.
But then, I'm one who feels more despair from losing than joy from winning. Those for whom that is reversed will feel differently.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
- 22,319
- 18,703
The window is Hughes’ contract, it’s far from a guarantee that he re-signs so you do what it takes to build as strong of a team as possible during the years you have him locked up.
Winning the Cup is never likely for any team. The point is that several years of mediocrity may be coming regardless, or there may not be another year where the Canucks actually have as good of chance of contending as now, given their cap circumstances.
I'm not personally saying go all-in. But given the statuses of their core players, that's where the organization should be. Of course they aren't, because Benning basically sabotaged them for a decade+.
I'm not personally saying go all-in. But given the statuses of their core players, that's where the organization should be. Of course they aren't, because Benning basically sabotaged them for a decade+.
credulous
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
- 4,238
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the problem with that is the hughes contract overlaps exactly with the worst years of the oel buyout
i think to really make this a "window" and not a one-and-done the canucks need to figure out a way to get more for less out of their top 6 forwards. they can't really afford a nylander at 12m while also addressing their other issues. there's really nothing coming in the system except for maybe lekkerimaki who is still a question mark imo. they should probably consider a tampa style trade for a hagel type that can play top six minutes while costing next to nothing. a 3c would work too especially if you could also find another cheap center and occaisonally load up in the top 6 with miller or the cheap 3c playing wing.
otherwise the canucks are going to end up with a competent defense finally but too thin up front to really compete
The more and more I think about it, the less and less I think they will go "all in" on their window, or anything like that. I think both job preservation and hubris will lead this management team to not trade significant futures for immediate help. On the job preservation, the best outcome for JR and Alvin is to be a competitive team for as long as possible. If they go "all in" and this fails then they will be fired relatively quickly, and even if it is generally a "success" and they have 2-3 "good" years, if the bottom subsequently falls out then they are fired as well.
In contrast, if they keep on "building", and try for sustained success, then they are more likely to be employed for longer, and if they struggle during this, they can at least maintain to ownership that they continue to "build" towards something, whereas on the compete now model no such excuse its. And this is where hubris comes in as well, because I really do think many managers think they if they do things the "right" way by drafting and developing players the "right" way, they can beat the odds and be the unlikely team that has sustained success over a long period of time such as the Hurricanes.
And of course the above is generally in line with ownership's interests since sustained success, or at the very least, playoff hopeful type teams, is far better for sales then having 2-3 "successful years" followed by another 3 basement dwelling years.
In contrast, if they keep on "building", and try for sustained success, then they are more likely to be employed for longer, and if they struggle during this, they can at least maintain to ownership that they continue to "build" towards something, whereas on the compete now model no such excuse its. And this is where hubris comes in as well, because I really do think many managers think they if they do things the "right" way by drafting and developing players the "right" way, they can beat the odds and be the unlikely team that has sustained success over a long period of time such as the Hurricanes.
And of course the above is generally in line with ownership's interests since sustained success, or at the very least, playoff hopeful type teams, is far better for sales then having 2-3 "successful years" followed by another 3 basement dwelling years.
This sounds a bit like talk prior to the season where there's no possible way we can improve the team as it is. If you're losing the surplus value of players starting next season, then management just has to play it smart and find new surplus value players. Like when the big OEL buyout cap hit hits if we can have Willander/Pettersson/etc contributing surplus on ELC contracts that mitigates it.
What we're missing, and this ship has long since sailed thanks to Benning, is that one big short window push where you're best players are still on ELC's letting you really load up. As things are we're looking at a window that lasts basically as long as Pettersson/Hughes last, with potential for ups and downs on a season-by-season basis.
As for 'loading up' there's only so much you can do with everyone right up against the cap ceiling. I'd say there's a reasonably chance we keep our 1st simply because they don't have cap room to spend it.
Again, I'm not personally saying go all-in. I don't think they should because I don't think they're good enough. But looking at the statuses of their core players and the mechanics of the OEL buyout, the time should be now for them to be a legit contender.
And not saying it's going to be impossible to improve. But it will be more difficult when they have to pay their top players full value, and try to scrounge surplus value from the bargain bin.
There's also no guarantee that the time when guys like Willander, D-Petey, Lekkerimaki can make significant impacts overlaps with the contributing primes of Miller and Demko (the latter could be gone, as could Hughes and Pettersson).
HairyKneel
Registered User
- Jun 5, 2023
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The team is in a progression phase. They have a lot of good pieces aged 24-30. But again I’m optimistic. They look to be emerging from the wilderness and poised to be a good team for a half decade +. They’ve had dead money on the books for years….Luongo, Virtanen, Holtby etc. Lots of teams do and they remain contenders/competitive. Competent management is key. Salary cap management is of utmost importance.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Kind of searching for the right place to put this comment, and I think it's best suited here. Definitely impressed with some of the depth pieces Allvin has acquired for relative pennies on the dollar to fill out this roster. Both via free agency and via trade - particularly the trades for DeSmith and Lafferty (to soon to say on Zadorov, but the price we acquired him for was significantly less than I thought he would go for)
We've gotten really good value out of DeSmith and Lafferty thus far, and our free agent signees like Blueger, Suter, Cole, and Soucy have definitely improved the roster over where we were. Hopefully Suter and Soucy are both back playing soon.
We've gotten really good value out of DeSmith and Lafferty thus far, and our free agent signees like Blueger, Suter, Cole, and Soucy have definitely improved the roster over where we were. Hopefully Suter and Soucy are both back playing soon.
Bojack Horvatman
IAMGROOT
- Jun 15, 2016
- 4,734
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Agreed. These “little things” like finding good depth/role players for cheap and having a good farm system can be a difference maker. Both things the last regime was horrid at.
HairyKneel
Registered User
- Jun 5, 2023
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I thought Millers peak season was his first year here. Then it was the 99 point season. Then he was garbage to start last season. Now this is as good as he will get. Lmfao. Most of the folks that post this crap couldn’t tie their own skates let alone use them for anything other than to cut the cheese.
