Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

[bandwagonesque]

Are Canucks fans still wanting to move JT Miller?

Realistically, no. He's been the most important player on the team so far apart from Hughes.

 

[strattonius]

It is about effective succession planning.. and i agree. In theory podkolzin is to replace joshua.. also in theory raty would replace blueger - but is that a proper projection given Ratys skating?

This just reminds me of when people project our line up in 2 yrs and litter a bunch of ELC's throughout the line up.

Basically I don't think any of those young players should be the plan for our roster moving forward. Management should continue to pro-scout ready NHL'ers with no term. The plan should be to keep finding those gems in the bottom of your line-up. Then when a player like Hoglander jumps in to the line up and proves he can hang its an added bonus - now you hust have more depth and havent committed any term.

Expecting young players to make the jump and be an effective player on a team we hope is a contender for a few years is poor planning.

 

[Vector]

Are Canucks fans still wanting to move JT Miller?

Nope. Would have to be some sort of crazy overpay that included win-now components. Even with the legit concern over his contract going forward.

 

[andora]

This just reminds me of when people project our line up in 2 yrs and litter a bunch of ELC's throughout the line up.

Basically I don't think any of those young players should be the plan for our roster moving forward. Management should continue to pro-scout ready NHL'ers with no term. The plan should be to keep finding those gems in the bottom of your line-up. Then when a player like Hoglander jumps in to the line up and proves he can hang its an added bonus - now you hust have more depth and havent committed any term.

Expecting young players to make the jump and be an effective player on a team we hope is a contender for a few years is poor planning.

it needs to be both - having a succession planning process is just as important as continuing to unearth cheap value players. both can happen concurrently - with cap restraints noosed tight on any competitive team both need to be executed consistently well.

 

[TruGr1t]

I also think all of these are a bit high. Pettersson and Hronek are RFAs as well. So we can control over their respective contracts. If both want stupid amounts of money, we'll just force them to arbitration and trade them. So at the very least we'll recoup assets.

They aren't high. Pettersson is a RFA in name only, he can manoeuvre himself out of town at this leisure. Zadorov asking for a big deal has been reported, and maybe Joshua is high but if he continues his performance I don't think it is.

Hronek is, I'd argue, trending in the wrong direction:

 

[rypper]

WHY do fans keep forgetting about the trade requests?

I blame myself for forgetting that a player can't ever rescind a trade request or ever ever possibly change their mind. It's a harsh rule, but that's the way it is.

 

[F A N]

Pettersson is a RFA in name only, he can manoeuvre himself out of town at this leisure.

That makes no sense. Either he is a “Restricted” FA or he is not. If he’s an RFA, the Canucks hold his rights and very likely gets some sort of compensation if he wants to “manoeuvre” his way out of town. That means he can accept his QO, file for arbitration, sign an offer sheet, accept what the Canucks offer him, hold out, or forces a trade. Either way, the Canucks should be able to recoup assets for Petey should the Canucks fail to re-sign him.

 

[theguardianII]

I blame myself for forgetting that a player can't ever rescind a trade request or ever ever possibly change their mind. It's a harsh rule, but that's the way it is.

No team wants a player that doesn't want to be there on it.

Harsh rule, maybe but then it prevents turmoil in the room.

"I want out", "No, I want to stay" bad things happen then "I want out" good things, "I want to stay"
"I am going to take my bat and ball and go home"

It wasn't like these requests were spur of the moment, done in a funk. They were requested and pursued for months.

"Oh you're winning now I want to stay"
"go ahead bench me, deep down I really don't want to be here anyway"

Of course a demand/request can/could have a positive effect.
They play better so they can be traded easier.

 

[Canucker]

They aren't high. Pettersson is a RFA in name only, he can manoeuvre himself out of town at this leisure. Zadorov asking for a big deal has been reported, and maybe Joshua is high but if he continues his performance I don't think it is.

Hronek is, I'd argue, trending in the wrong direction:

$8m might be on the high end for Hronek, but honestly...who will they replace him with? As hard as it seems to be to find higher end RHD, they finally got one and now its being suggested that they balk at paying him? Especially with all the advances the team has made towards opening a window of contention...I just don't see them walking away from Hronek, unless his ask is really outlandish.

 

[rypper]

Maybe I'm completely out to lunch but I think despite all the talk from Seravalli and insiderrrrrs, all the fear mongering from Twitter types, I think the contract will pleasantly surprise. It'll start with a 7.

 

[TruGr1t]

That makes no sense. Either he is a “Restricted” FA or he is not. If he’s an RFA, the Canucks hold his rights and very likely gets some sort of compensation if he wants to “manoeuvre” his way out of town. That means he can accept his QO, file for arbitration, sign an offer sheet, accept what the Canucks offer him, hold out, or forces a trade. Either way, the Canucks should be able to recoup assets for Petey should the Canucks fail to re-sign him.

Well yes, he leaves town in this scenario. Obviously they will recoup something, but if that's his desire he can basically leave at this point.

 

[theguardianII]

$8m might be on the high end for Hronek, but honestly...who will they replace him with? As hard as it seems to be to find higher end RHD, they finally got one and now its being suggested that they balk at paying him? Especially with all the advances the team has made towards opening a window of contention...I just don't see them walking away from Hronek, unless his ask is really outlandish.

Who will they replace him with? Tanev? Or some other defenceman like him.

They don't play as a pair on the PP and when together Hughes has the puck the most ad Hronek just hangs around behind him,
And it isn't like Hronek is THAT good at defence or in his own zone.

I don't think they will walk away from him but I do think he may have enhanced his trade value.

The future is volatile. The window of contention is really only two years, this and the next unless they find some really, really good entry level contracts and players. Say Willander or Brzustewicz earn a defence spot or like Montreal they find some large defencemen like Guhle, Barron or Xhejka that can step in. Bains maybe makes the team to replace one of the bottom six or they make trades for players like that already have some NHL games under their belt.

Next year there is a chance they lose both Myers and Zadorov to TO which might delight some posters but would have the team taking a step back from the improved defensive play of this year. The defence would not be playoff size after.
Friedman, Juulsen, Hughes, Hronek, Soucy and ? Cole at 35/36?

 

[theguardianII]

Well yes, he leaves town in this scenario. Obviously they will recoup something, but if that's his desire he can basically leave at this point.

He will resign but maybe only 2 years with an agreement the team will work hard on a trade.

I would have thought it would be harder to (re)build but the trade for Zadorov has made me think Rughterford/Allvin might be able to do enough to extend the playoff window by an extra year.

If Allvin can rid the team of the players that have requested a trade and make good use of that cap space, maybe make another sacrificial trade the future could be altered unpredictably.

A question will/could, be good enough to make the playoffs or to be good enough in the playoffs?

 

[TruGr1t]

He will resign but maybe only 2 years with an agreement the team will work hard on a trade.

I would have thought it would be harder to (re)build but the trade for Zadorov has made me think Rughterford/Allvin might be able to do enough to extend the playoff window by an extra year.

If Allvin can rid the team of the players that have requested a trade and make good use of that cap space, maybe make another sacrificial trade the future could be altered unpredictably.

A question will/could, be good enough to make the playoffs or to be good enough in the playoffs?

I find the dynamic rather fascinating because I always thought it was a term or AAV issue, but it doesn't sound like it is from the team's perspective.



I can't really come up with a step-change that's going to make Pettersson "ready" to sign a blank cheque. What is he waiting for exactly?

 

[RandV]

That makes no sense. Either he is a “Restricted” FA or he is not. If he’s an RFA, the Canucks hold his rights and very likely gets some sort of compensation if he wants to “manoeuvre” his way out of town. That means he can accept his QO, file for arbitration, sign an offer sheet, accept what the Canucks offer him, hold out, or forces a trade. Either way, the Canucks should be able to recoup assets for Petey should the Canucks fail to re-sign him.

Not that I think there's any possibility of it happening but in the worst case scenario where a player of this calibre says 'I'm signing my 1 year QO then testing free agency' any "recoup assets" would be negligible, basically getting some nickels & dimes for a loony. You could get some quarters if a player is open to resigning with the acquiring team, but that's all in the players control.

And in the Canucks specific situation they wouldn't be bad enough to draft a Pettersson replacement, at least not in any reasonable time frame to be relevant to the remaining Miller/Hughes/Demko core.

 

[credulous]

I can't really come up with a step-change that's going to make Pettersson "ready" to sign a blank cheque. What is he waiting for exactly?

he's waiting for vancouver to have decent nightlife

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

$8m might be on the high end for Hronek, but honestly...who will they replace him with? As hard as it seems to be to find higher end RHD, they finally got one and now its being suggested that they balk at paying him? Especially with all the advances the team has made towards opening a window of contention...I just don't see them walking away from Hronek, unless his ask is really outlandish.

I suspect it's just typical negotiating tactics to hopefully get him under 8M. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Hronek is pulling a Nylander and waiting to see what happens with Pettersson. If he's willing to take a little else to help ice a more competitive team, Hronek may opt to do the same.

My hope is we can talk Petey under 12M and Hronek under 8M. In Petey's case, 11.5M on a 4-5 year term might just be the perfect compromise. He'll have another huge deal coming while we'll be out of the dog years of OEL's buyout to offer him said deal.

Is that likely? Probably not when Matthews just inked 13M but I'm crossing my fingers Petey doesn't want to straggle every cent he can.

 

[andora]

I suspect it's just typical negotiating tactics to hopefully get him under 8M. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Hronek is pulling a Nylander and waiting to see what happens with Pettersson. If he's willing to take a little else to help ice a more competitive team, Hronek may opt to do the same.

My hope is we can talk Petey under 12M and Hronek under 8M. In Petey's case, 11.5M on a 4-5 year term might just be the perfect compromise. He'll have another huge deal coming while we'll be out of the dog years of OEL's buyout to offer him said deal.

Is that likely? Probably not when Matthews just inked 13M but I'm crossing my fingers Petey doesn't want to straggle every cent he can.

Pettersson is quickly losing ground on even strength primary point prosuxtion to matthews to even sniff asking for similar pay

I mean how much does defensive play cover in the difference?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Pettersson is quickly losing ground on even strength primary point prosuxtion to matthews to even sniff asking for similar pay

I mean how much does defensive play cover in the difference?

I very much agree. In fact, his inconsistencies are what makes me think the whole shorter term Matthews went for might just be a good idea for Pettersson. He just isn't a 12M player right now. He might become one but he can't be anywhere near this streaky and demand that kind of money. Right now he's not even playing up to 11M but there's no chance we sign him below that imo.

11.5M/5yrs feels very fair on both sides. We're giving a little in the hopes he cleans up his consistency issues while he's giving a little by not pushing for top dollar. He'll be 29 at the end and set himself up for another big deal if he's worth it.

 

[F A N]

Not that I think there's any possibility of it happening but in the worst case scenario where a player of this calibre says 'I'm signing my 1 year QO then testing free agency' any "recoup assets" would be negligible, basically getting some nickels & dimes for a loony. You could get some quarters if a player is open to resigning with the acquiring team, but that's all in the players control.

And in the Canucks specific situation they wouldn't be bad enough to draft a Pettersson replacement, at least not in any reasonable time frame to be relevant to the remaining Miller/Hughes/Demko core.

I disagree. In your worse case scenario, you aren’t selling a $1 asset at a discount. You are selling a $$$ asset at a discount.

The Canucks could allow the acquiring team to negotiate the parameters of an extension even if Petey wasn’t eligible to sign one or the team can wait to trade him. Even in a situation where Petey is adamant that he will test free agency, he’s still worth a 1st+ as a pure rental and I am sure there would be teams who are confident they can re-sign him. Take the return for Mark Stone. The return wasn’t great but not “negligible.” Had Columbus traded Panarin there’s nothing to indicate that they wouldn’t have gotten significant assets back in return.

 

[andora]

Stones return was junk

I very much agree. In fact, his inconsistencies are what makes me think the whole shorter term Matthews went for might just be a good idea for Pettersson. He just isn't a 12M player right now. He might become one but he can't be anywhere near this streaky and demand that kind of money. Right now he's not even playing up to 11M but there's no chance we sign him below that imo.

11.5M/5yrs feels very fair on both sides. We're giving a little in the hopes he cleans up his consistency issues while he's giving a little by not pushing for top dollar. He'll be 29 at the end and set himself up for another big deal if he's worth it.

Yeah i would do the 5 no problem

 

[TruGr1t]

I very much agree. In fact, his inconsistencies are what makes me think the whole shorter term Matthews went for might just be a good idea for Pettersson. He just isn't a 12M player right now. He might become one but he can't be anywhere near this streaky and demand that kind of money. Right now he's not even playing up to 11M but there's no chance we sign him below that imo.

11.5M/5yrs feels very fair on both sides. We're giving a little in the hopes he cleans up his consistency issues while he's giving a little by not pushing for top dollar. He'll be 29 at the end and set himself up for another big deal if he's worth it.

Yeah, I'd be alright with a shorter term. The issue is despite any inconsistency in his game there'll be teams lining up with chequebooks if he hits free agency. Somehow I doubt the Canucks criticizing his game in negotiations even matters. His numbers will be good enough this year I doubt his ask budges much.

 

[F A N]

Stones return was junk

He was a pending UFA traded near the deadline for essentially Brannstrom in his draft +1 year and a 2nd round pick. That’s like trading Horvat for ASP + 2nd round pick (if that was the trade)

 

[andora]

He was a pending UFA traded near the deadline for essentially Brannstrom in his draft +1 year and a 2nd round pick. That’s like trading Horvat for ASP + 2nd round pick (if that was the trade)

Maybe i overrate stone but maybe other factors played into it maybe he only wanted vegas.. or only two teams or something

Still junk

 

[Canucker]

Who will they replace him with? Tanev? Or some other defenceman like him.

They don't play as a pair on the PP and when together Hughes has the puck the most ad Hronek just hangs around behind him,
And it isn't like Hronek is THAT good at defence or in his own zone.

I don't think they will walk away from him but I do think he may have enhanced his trade value.

The future is volatile. The window of contention is really only two years, this and the next unless they find some really, really good entry level contracts and players. Say Willander or Brzustewicz earn a defence spot or like Montreal they find some large defencemen like Guhle, Barron or Xhejka that can step in. Bains maybe makes the team to replace one of the bottom six or they make trades for players like that already have some NHL games under their belt.

Next year there is a chance they lose both Myers and Zadorov to TO which might delight some posters but would have the team taking a step back from the improved defensive play of this year. The defence would not be playoff size after.
Friedman, Juulsen, Hughes, Hronek, Soucy and ? Cole at 35/36?

Replacing Hronek with a consistently broke down, 34 yr old Chris Tanev might be good for fan "feels", but it certainly doesn't do much to improve the lineup IMO. I wouldn't call Hronek a defensive stalwart by any means, but he's competent and adds offense...and he's still reasonably young. He's going to get paid.

And I don't think I can get to a place where I would feel that losing a Myers/Zadorov pairing would cause a "step back" in any improved defensive play.