Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

[Jerry the great]

I think if Cole is enjoying his time here and you can get him at a decent number, then he's a no brainer to retain. Will acknowledge that I've been busy and haven't been watching as much the past couple weeks, so maybe he stinks now, but I think he has consistently been noticeable for me.

i think Zadorov will be the guy they retain. Hughes, Z, Soucy on the left side next year.

 

[credulous]

it's probably fine if they bring back cole but he should be almost at the bottom of the list of free agents to resign. i don't think it really matters if they lose cole, friedman or myers but they have to resign pettersson and hronek and they should try really hard to retain joshua, lafferty and desmith if they can get them at reasonable numbers. i'm not a zadorov fan and think he'll want big dollars so i won't be sad to see him walk but he is someone they'll need to replace if they can't keep him. blueger has been alright but if there's a better player available they shouldn't hesitate to replace him

 

[LordBacon]

The fact that they actually retool the team without giving away many picks/prospects is f***ing amazing.

Thanks for making my fav team fun to watch again.
The Jimbo nightmare days were too long.

 

[Ryp37]

The fact that they actually retool the team without giving away many picks/prospects is f***ing amazing.

Thanks for making my fav team fun to watch again.
The Jimbo nightmare days were too long.

Can tell how things are going since this thread doesn't stay at the top of the forum anymore lol

 

[andora]

Can tell how things are going since this thread doesn't stay at the top of the forum anymore lol

Literally thinking same thing

 

[F A N]

Yeah, there's no comparison regarding the risk of signing an older player, because that player being bad was only a financial problem rather than significantly handcuffing the team going forward. Like, could you imagine how much worse the Messier era would look if the team suffered a cap penalty for a half decade or whatever after buying him out?

Also the game is just plain different now. The fitness level across the board is different. The type of attributes that lead to success are different. Beyond that, there were also plenty of strong players from that 90s era who fell off in their early-mid 30s. Those just aren't necessarily the players we think of as top dogs due to survivorship bias or whatever the correct term for that is - Roenick, LaFontaine, Kariya, Janney, etc. weren't ticking along strong into their late 30s.

Agree with most of your post except I would say that LaFontaine and Kariya's careers were cut short by concussions. They are not good examples of 90s era players who fell off in their early-mid 30s due to age-related decline.

There's obviously no one size fits all. With some players we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Janney had his wife stolen and really just had one (albeit exceptional) skillset which was his passing. But he wasn't fast like Kariya or elusive like a Ray Whitney. Roenick's style of play (and injuries) were likely a big factor as well and he kind of steadily declined rather than fall off a cliff. Straight away if you were going to predict who would age the worse when all of those guys were in their early 20s, one would likely pick Janney or Roenick.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Can tell how things are going since this thread doesn't stay at the top of the forum anymore lol

Meanwhile, I think in the last year of Benning we were on like thread five of mostly crying and bitching.

 

[drax0s]

Lots of key UFA’s this team has to re-sign.

DeSmith, Joshua, Lafferty, Zadorov, Blueger? I would probably let Cole, Myers walk.

Then there’s Pettersson and Hronek. PA will have his hands full this offseason.

Yeah, however I'm not that worried about that since Allvin has already sent a message that he'll trade people if they're not able to be had at a reasonable price. It's also a lot easier when you have a winning team to get players to stick around.

 

[drax0s]

Ima gonna do some sleuthing on this!

I wonder if it was Zadorov? He had the worst +- on Calgary, but was apparently decent analytically.

 

[Hit the post]

Agree with most of your post except I would say that LaFontaine and Kariya's careers were cut short by concussions. They are not good examples of 90s era players who fell off in their early-mid 30s due to age-related decline.

There's obviously no one size fits all. With some players we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Janney had his wife stolen and really just had one (albeit exceptional) skillset which was his passing. But he wasn't fast like Kariya or elusive like a Ray Whitney. Roenick's style of play (and injuries) were likely a big factor as well and he kind of steadily declined rather than fall off a cliff. Straight away if you were going to predict who would age the worse when all of those guys were in their early 20s, one would likely pick Janney or Roenick.

I *STILL* remember that overtime playoff game that seemed to last foreover until he ended it.

 

[LordBacon]

Meanwhile, I think in the last year of Benning we were on like thread five of mostly crying and bitching.

It was the only entertainment we had back then.

 

[RobertKron]

Agree with most of your post except I would say that LaFontaine and Kariya's careers were cut short by concussions. They are not good examples of 90s era players who fell off in their early-mid 30s due to age-related decline.

There's obviously no one size fits all. With some players we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Janney had his wife stolen and really just had one (albeit exceptional) skillset which was his passing. But he wasn't fast like Kariya or elusive like a Ray Whitney. Roenick's style of play (and injuries) were likely a big factor as well and he kind of steadily declined rather than fall off a cliff. Straight away if you were going to predict who would age the worse when all of those guys were in their early 20s, one would likely pick Janney or Roenick.

That's the point, though. Age-related decline and injuries are basically inseparable. Lecavalier was cited as an 00s example, and his career was impacted by injuries. Even the guys we don't know about, most likely their longevity is impacted by injuries. It's part of the sport, especially with how much faster the game is played today compared to the 90s.

 

[F A N]

That's the point, though. Age-related decline and injuries are basically inseparable. Lecavalier was cited as an 00s example, and his career was impacted by injuries. Even the guys we don't know about, most likely their longevity is impacted by injuries. It's part of the sport, especially with how much faster the game is played today compared to the 90s.

Well the original discussion was made by @RandV about 90s era players being able to play well into their 30s while the next generation (Thorton, Lecavailer, Sedins) didn't. A further point was made that Eriksson's UFA class had six 30 year olds that were signed that immediately sucked. I made the point that I don't think Yzerman and Modano aged better than Thorton and Sedins.

There's always a risk with injuries. Any player, regardless of age, can have their careers cut shot by injuries. Surgery techniques and rehab science have gotten better so formerly career-ending injuries might not be. But I think the topic was about age-related decline rather than injuries causing a sharp drop off. You spoke of "strong players from that 90s era who fell off in their early-mid 30s."

In Lecavalier's case, he was damaged goods by the time his contract was bought out. Among his injuries included fracture to his back, fracture in his right hand, wrist surgery, shoulder surgery. His shoulder (thanks to a Matt Cooke special) and wrist surgeries could be identified as turning points in Lecavalier's career.

If you look at age curves, star forwards do peak in their early 20s but are generally able to maintain their performance into their 30s absent serious injuries. But if the entire argument is that injuries catch up to players or older players have higher risk of injury causing a decline then you really shouldn't sign anyone past the age of [#]. But if you're making bets on players aging well then you do look at their injury history, their durability, their style of player, their skill set etc.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Lots of key UFA’s this team has to re-sign.

DeSmith, Joshua, Lafferty, Zadorov, Blueger? I would probably let Cole, Myers walk.

Then there’s Pettersson and Hronek. PA will have his hands full this offseason.

I think Joshua is gone. His numbers dictate that he can get a pretty decent paycheque and we should not be paying him anything close to what other GM's will offer.

I think someone gives him 3M. Canucks shouldn't be paying him anything more than half of that.

Hronek's insane point streak from earlier in the season has him sitting top 10 in defenceman scoring. I don't think he's capable of that without Hughes, but he's got the numbers to back up his ask, which I imagine will be hefty.

I think he asks for 7.5-8M. He's not worth that.

It's going to be a tough negotiation. Allvin's skills will be put to the test.

Pettersson has played worse than last season. But I still think he's asking for 12M+.

I think he pretty much gets his way. 4 x 12M deal.

Better for the Canucks would be 5 x 12M, or more realistically 5 x 12.5M.

 

[Tact]

I think Joshua is gone. His numbers dictate that he can get a pretty decent paycheque and we should not be paying him anything close to what other GM's will offer.

I think someone gives him 3M. Canucks shouldn't be paying him anything more than half of that.

Hronek's insane point streak from earlier in the season has him sitting top 10 in defenceman scoring. I don't think he's capable of that without Hughes, but he's got the numbers to back up his ask, which I imagine will be hefty.

I think he asks for 7.5-8M. He's not worth that.

It's going to be a tough negotiation. Allvin's skills will be put to the test.

Pettersson has played worse than last season. But I still think he's asking for 12M+.

I think he pretty much gets his way. 4 x 12M deal.

Better for the Canucks would be 5 x 12M, or more realistically 5 x 12.5M.

I think it may be wise if we find a trade for Garland in the offseason (hopefully it can be a positive cap clearing move).

I like the player, but 5M on the 3rd line is a luxury we can’t afford if we wish to remain competitive.

We would have to insert a cheap player (ie Podkolzin) to hopefully replace Garlands production. I think that along with Myers and Cole’s expiring contracts, should be enough room to help get these players signed, even if we have to slightly overpay.

 

[TruGr1t]

I think Joshua is gone. His numbers dictate that he can get a pretty decent paycheque and we should not be paying him anything close to what other GM's will offer.

I think someone gives him 3M. Canucks shouldn't be paying him anything more than half of that.

Hronek's insane point streak from earlier in the season has him sitting top 10 in defenceman scoring. I don't think he's capable of that without Hughes, but he's got the numbers to back up his ask, which I imagine will be hefty.

I think he asks for 7.5-8M. He's not worth that.

It's going to be a tough negotiation. Allvin's skills will be put to the test.

Pettersson has played worse than last season. But I still think he's asking for 12M+.

I think he pretty much gets his way. 4 x 12M deal.

Better for the Canucks would be 5 x 12M, or more realistically 5 x 12.5M.

Pretty accurate numbers. I’d peg Pettersson at $12M+, Hronek at $8M+, Zadorov at $4M+, and Joshua at $3M+, if he keeps it up. Blueger and DeSmith gone by default to make room.

 

[Jerry the great]

Pretty accurate numbers. I’d peg Pettersson at $12M+, Hronek at $8M+, Zadorov at $4M+, and Joshua at $3M+, if he keeps it up. Blueger and DeSmith gone by default to make room.

I guess we'll see soon enough, but I think those numbers are all high, Pettersson particularly so IMO. Auston Matthews has set the bar for elite young centres and Pettersson, as good as he is, shouldn't be getting anywhere near what he just signed for. GPG is 50% higher than EP, P/G is 15%.... ES numbers are even better than that and he's just a much more difficult player to play against/defend IMO. Pettersson should be ~$10-$10.5mm per on a 4 year and less if he maxes out term. Not sure i would want to go 8 years though.....he's not built to absorb the punishment he's going to see in the post season IMO. Also, if he really values team success, he won't be going after the absolute max he can get (like he would probably get $12mm if he said "it's that or I'm signing my QO and testing free agency"). Some people have suggested his comments about winning last summer were nothing more than a negotiating tactic to squeeze max $$ out on his next deal, but I'm not sure i buy that. I think he was just massively frustrated with losing and the shitty culture. Hronek should be $7mm, Joshua $2mm (maybe less if you give him term). Zadorov at $4 is probably about right.

 

[RobertKron]

I guess we'll see soon enough, but I think those numbers are all high, Pettersson particularly so IMO. Auston Matthews has set the bar for elite young centres and Pettersson, as good as he is, shouldn't be getting anywhere near what he just signed for. GPG is 50% higher than EP, P/G is 15%.... ES numbers are even better than that and he's just a much more difficult player to play against/defend IMO. Pettersson should be ~$10-$10.5mm per on a 4 year and less if he maxes out term. Not sure i would want to go 8 years though.....he's not built to absorb the punishment he's going to see in the post season IMO. Also, if he really values team success, he won't be going after the absolute max he can get (like he would probably get $12mm if he said "it's that or I'm signing my QO and testing free agency"). Some people have suggested his comments about winning last summer were nothing more than a negotiating tactic to squeeze max $$ out on his next deal, but I'm not sure i buy that. I think he was just massively frustrated with losing and the shitty culture. Hronek should be $7mm, Joshua $2mm (maybe less if you give him term). Zadorov at $4 is probably about right.

Matthews' 15.87% deal under next year's 87.7 or whatever they're saying it'll be cap would be like 14mil.

 

[strattonius]

I don't know maybe it's just me but I'd rather keep Blueger over Joshua. I think Joshua is having a career year and his numbers are rather unsustainable and to keep him we will have to overpay. Then you look at Blueger who is starting to click, plays C and has a great hockey IQ. Just seems like smarter money and that Blueger's game is more sustainable.

 

[Jerry the great]

Matthews' 15.87% deal under next year's 87.7 or whatever they're saying it'll be cap would be like 14mil.

the projected cap number was already out there when he signed that deal; everyone and their dog knew the cap was going up. Hard to justify a big bump on the deal Matthew Tkachuk signed and if you adjust for the cap increase it's still less than $10mm per.

 

[Jerry the great]

I don't know maybe it's just me but I'd rather keep Blueger over Joshua. I think Joshua is having a career year and his numbers are rather unsustainable and to keep him we will have to overpay. Then you look at Blueger who is starting to click, plays C and has a great hockey IQ. Just seems like smarter money and that Blueger's game is more sustainable.

why not both? i would offer them both $6mm over 3 years.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I don't know maybe it's just me but I'd rather keep Blueger over Joshua. I think Joshua is having a career year and his numbers are rather unsustainable and to keep him we will have to overpay. Then you look at Blueger who is starting to click, plays C and has a great hockey IQ. Just seems like smarter money and that Blueger's game is more sustainable.

It really depends on their respective demands. Even if Joshua doesn't put up the points he has, his game alone is worth considering. That being said, my hope is we can get him closer to 2M by offering term which, in turn, lets us keep Blueger.

If I had to choice though, I'd agree. Blueger seems like a safer choice, and potentially a good mentor for any rookies trying to crack the lineup next season.

Pretty accurate numbers. I’d peg Pettersson at $12M+, Hronek at $8M+, Zadorov at $4M+, and Joshua at $3M+, if he keeps it up. Blueger and DeSmith gone by default to make room.

I also think all of these are a bit high. Pettersson and Hronek are RFAs as well. So we can control over their respective contracts. If both want stupid amounts of money, we'll just force them to arbitration and trade them. So at the very least we'll recoup assets.

 

[andora]

I don't know maybe it's just me but I'd rather keep Blueger over Joshua. I think Joshua is having a career year and his numbers are rather unsustainable and to keep him we will have to overpay. Then you look at Blueger who is starting to click, plays C and has a great hockey IQ. Just seems like smarter money and that Blueger's game is more sustainable.

It is about effective succession planning.. and i agree. In theory podkolzin is to replace joshua.. also in theory raty would replace blueger - but is that a proper projection given Ratys skating?

 

[theguardianII]

Pretty accurate numbers. I’d peg Pettersson at $12M+, Hronek at $8M+, Zadorov at $4M+, and Joshua at $3M+, if he keeps it up. Blueger and DeSmith gone by default to make room.

WHY do fans keep forgetting about the trade requests? Boeser asked twice Garland three times.
That they are having good seasons is to be expected because they need to improve their trade value.
Last year the rumours had retention of 2 mil for Garland and 3 mil for Boeser as sweeteners
Fans were all on board, as was the media, of Kuzmenko replacing Boeser, scoring at a hotter pace, healthier, cheaper and able to play with any of the top six players.
Last year even Tocchet played Kuz with Pettersson and they thrived.

In all his years here Boeser hasn't played a full season, not his fault but .... his wrist has been an issue going back to his college days.

Regardless if both move then most of the cap issue and immediate future can be solved.

Pettersson will sign another bridge deal, 2/3 years 4 max. 12+ mil.
Zadorov and Myers resign at a neutral cap increase, just allocate some of Myers 6 to Zadorov. 10 mil split between them.

Hronek? This could be really interesting. He has a high points total right now. Playing with Hughes is his puck handling and scoring really needed?
Certainly he would have a high trade value.

Joshua? He is a 3rd liner, maybe 1.75 to 2 mil tops and that is being generous.

Better keep DeSmith. Demko looks to me like there could be another leg issue, left leg this time. Just small things, as the game goes on the pads going down, push off from side to side, leg extension. Like maybe medication wearing off? Probably nothing but I was right last year long before he stopped playing, I even posted it was his right leg/side.

 

[Cowumbus]

Are Canucks fans still wanting to move JT Miller?