Management Thread Blurst of Times
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hindsight comment.
I wished we kept Horvat. We did tender him a reasonable offer at 7.8, which was his agents asking price during the summer. But we opted to sign Jt MIller first, who was a superior offensive player at that time. now lookin back I wish we actually kept Horvat, trade Jt Miller, Keep Kuzemko and go from there.
I wished we kept Horvat. We did tender him a reasonable offer at 7.8, which was his agents asking price during the summer. But we opted to sign Jt MIller first, who was a superior offensive player at that time. now lookin back I wish we actually kept Horvat, trade Jt Miller, Keep Kuzemko and go from there.
Not getting into the details of the whole Miller thing but for a team that's locked a lot of passion over different periods in the last several years Bo was not going to cut it
Tariffs and lowering Canadian dollar will or should how team's are built.
More important than ever will the draft and players under RFA become.
Teams can draft good to great players and have cap control on them for up to 8 years.
A 100 million dollar cap, in US dollars, is today costing Canadian teams 145 million CDN dollars.
I expect an internal cap might happen now.
This should change the TDL expectations.
On Miller;
Many posters knew he was this when motivated, there is no surprise.
Hopefully there is a team that see's his rebound performance and believe Pettersson can as well.
Pettersson's cap hit the way he is performing has just become even more impactful.
More important than ever will the draft and players under RFA become.
Teams can draft good to great players and have cap control on them for up to 8 years.
A 100 million dollar cap, in US dollars, is today costing Canadian teams 145 million CDN dollars.
I expect an internal cap might happen now.
This should change the TDL expectations.
On Miller;
Many posters knew he was this when motivated, there is no surprise.
Hopefully there is a team that see's his rebound performance and believe Pettersson can as well.
Pettersson's cap hit the way he is performing has just become even more impactful.
Wonder what happens if we let him learn and dont choose Benning.
Sakics start with the Avs was a disaster.
Jyrki21
2021-12-05
This is just hugely problematic. I noticed that Canucksarmy noted that today is the anniversary of the Mogilny-Morrison trade. A perfect example of a trade that Aquilini would have nixed because of his short-term thinking, since the 1999-2000 Canucks were still fighting for a playoff spot, and Mogilny was a "name" player while Morrison was still largely a prospect.
Imagine if that trade doesn't get made because of ownership that doesn't understand what investment or opportunity cost are...
edit: Before anyone inevitably comes back with "the revenue is important to him! You can't discount that!" What I regularly ridicule about Aquilini is he doesn't seem to understand that building a sustained contender will result in far more revenue than going all-in for these tiny little peaks every eight years or so.
Linden's biggest mistake was vouching for re-signing that backstabbing traitor in 2018. He might still be here otherwise.
I think the Mogilny trade is a poor example of what you're trying to say (which I don't disagree with). At the time, Mogilny was due for a salary increase So literally, the trade saved (edit: McCaw) millions.
And in hindsight and as much as I enjoyed the WCE era, what would have happened had we hung onto Mogilny and or traded him later? The height of the WCE era was 02-03 and Mogilny put up 33 goals and 79 points that year. If Mogilny stayed and managed to stay healthy, what could we have traded him for the following year after a 40+ goal season? Don't get me wrong, I would make the trade again. It's the type of return we would be better off getting from a Miller trade where we get a younger C about to hit his prime.
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Jyrki21
2021-12-05
So is Boeser...?
So I was remembering Mogilny as being an impending UFA, but I guess he had one more year left on his deal. Which makes it even ballsier (and I remember at the time I didn't love it, so that helps explain why). All the more reason an Aquilini-esque owner would have blocked it.
What's with the body shaming? I've said this many times before, there are benefits to bridge contracts. Had we signed Hughes to a bridge and then extended him to an 8 year contract the summer before last season when he won a Norris, 100% of us would prefer that scenario?
Not the same. The Mogilny trade happened before the cap came in and there was still a need to watch our spending. With Boeser the concern is his cap hit should he decline in future years. If teams are allowed to buyout players without affecting the cap then I don't think term would be an issue. And I should have said McCaw rather than Aquilini.
Yes he had another year. I recall we were trying to trade Messier and somehow we ended up keeping him as our own rental. Should have traded him. Anyhow, I think an owner concerned about money would consider the dollar savings. Yes playoff revenue is nice but trading Mogilny for Morrision was a $4.5M? difference in salary. I think at the time our payroll was like ~$28-30M and Mogilny was set to make more than $5M.
So ya I think there's a difference between the Canucks making lots of money and Aquilini wanting the playoff revenue vs shedding salary leading to immediate savings.
New ownership is needed with this franchise. Aquaman is killing this team with his “no rebuild, must get playoff money” stance
The Aquilinis can raise ticket prices all they want, but it also means that the Canucks will most likely be playing in front of a half-empty building next season.
Pick your poison. he doesnt want or care about the cup being in vancouver. wants to be a mediocre team for the next 10-15 years. hughes will leave. rebuilt again. fans wont even come anymore. recession hitting hard across canada. U.S and canada having trade wars amongst themselves. just hurts the business and economy even more than ever.
Pick your poison. he doesnt want or care about the cup being in vancouver. wants to be a mediocre team for the next 10-15 years. hughes will leave. rebuilt again. fans wont even come anymore. recession hitting hard across canada. U.S and canada having trade wars amongst themselves. just hurts the business and economy even more than ever.
This is just silly. Some owners really don't care aside from the bottom line but what makes you think Aquilini doesn't care about winning the Cup here in Vancouver? You don't have to like him and you can think that he has intervened and forced his GMs to make moves that have made the team worse in the long run, but c'mmon you seriously don't think he cares? But I don't know the guy. I just think he does want to own a team that does win the Cup and before the Sandman. Lots of bragging rights.
Well he is unwilling to do what it has taken for every cup winning team since the salary cap was implemented.
Let me guess. I now should post 1500 posts explaining to you what each of those letters I just posted mean.
Seems this might be a really big end of season.
Loads of cap space
Trades, maybe one big one this year.
Maybe a coaching change.
FAs walking
Still have some draft capital.
Some of the bottom six depth is coming around
A couple of bottom, 5/6 dmen prospects playing.
For next year the defence looks to be not bad and the bottom 7/8 forwards.
Goaltending seems to be not bad.
But with the huge cap increase the Canucks might not be in the running for long term FAs.
Not a rebuild but a power retooling to get some more "Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser, Demko" types through the draft.
It might be a real exciting draft day or maybe even before this year.
Loads of cap space
Trades, maybe one big one this year.
Maybe a coaching change.
FAs walking
Still have some draft capital.
Some of the bottom six depth is coming around
A couple of bottom, 5/6 dmen prospects playing.
For next year the defence looks to be not bad and the bottom 7/8 forwards.
Goaltending seems to be not bad.
But with the huge cap increase the Canucks might not be in the running for long term FAs.
Not a rebuild but a power retooling to get some more "Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser, Demko" types through the draft.
It might be a real exciting draft day or maybe even before this year.
If Allvin didn't trade Boeser because he thought it would make him look bad, what will he think if Boeser goes to Minny for free and scores 30+? Well they got the cap space.
Pettersson was unhappy in the room, Miller was unhappy in the room, now Boeser after Allvin's comments?
Does this look like a happy team or together "room", good chemistry?
So the nothing Allvin is likely to get is better than what they are getting out of Boeser now right?
Wins against borderline teams. Not many of those left.
Now Chytil's absence is causing a bad power play?
Chytil is unfortunately probably done. It wasn't the Dickinson hit, it was an accumulation of previous concussions. This was always a questionable trade due to the injury history.
Once the team faced decent teams again Pettersson's game went back to the previous 14 months. Some players go through a slump but for Pettersson it appears it is a slump n reverse, a short period of time when he can score points.
Hopefully those periods are enough to enhance his trade value. I can see Carolina calling and offering up some of their 1rst round picks and maybe that stud dman, Nishkin, they have in Russia, maybe Kotkaniemi as well. He is a 3rd line center and maybe marginal 2nd on this Vancouver team although I have no idea at this time who cold be the 1rst line guy if Pettersson is traded but then he isn't playing much like a first line center anyway.
Pettersson was unhappy in the room, Miller was unhappy in the room, now Boeser after Allvin's comments?
Does this look like a happy team or together "room", good chemistry?
So the nothing Allvin is likely to get is better than what they are getting out of Boeser now right?
Wins against borderline teams. Not many of those left.
Now Chytil's absence is causing a bad power play?
Chytil is unfortunately probably done. It wasn't the Dickinson hit, it was an accumulation of previous concussions. This was always a questionable trade due to the injury history.
Once the team faced decent teams again Pettersson's game went back to the previous 14 months. Some players go through a slump but for Pettersson it appears it is a slump n reverse, a short period of time when he can score points.
Hopefully those periods are enough to enhance his trade value. I can see Carolina calling and offering up some of their 1rst round picks and maybe that stud dman, Nishkin, they have in Russia, maybe Kotkaniemi as well. He is a 3rd line center and maybe marginal 2nd on this Vancouver team although I have no idea at this time who cold be the 1rst line guy if Pettersson is traded but then he isn't playing much like a first line center anyway.
Management made 4 critical failures this year.
1 - Was the Defence where they thought they could get by with letting Zadorov and Cole walk in free agency and replacing them with Forbort Desharnais then Brannstrom while not even upgrading Juulsen who has been a trooper but simply not even a decent #7-8. Also think they miss judged Soucy like a lot of fans here who i had argued with about last year when i thought he wasn't nearly as good as people were letting on
2 - Was the management of injuries and off ice issues. Throwing players under the bus publicly an inability to communicate what the hell was going on and a lack of understanding of what was going on with 3 of the teams biggest stars with a track record in tow of doing the same crap. Why was it necessary to take aim at Pettersson and then keep him and trade Miller or why tell everyone Boeser had little value at the deadline and now watch him skate around like he doesn't give 2 F's
3 - Was once it was inevitable Miller was leaving not being able to take a step back approach and think 2-3yrs down the road vs this ridiculous appease the owner dog shit that had them waste Miller's assets on pending UFAs and a player with hockeyIQ and concussion issues . Yes M.Pettersson is a good player and the contract worked out ok but what was the panic to throw a 14th OA pick at the time into a trade when the season was obviously a wash. What was going to prevent them from being able to get him as a UFA or a shorter term stop gap to bridge to DPettersson. Again this whole mentality of clinging to the immediate future that Canadian teams do that constantly prevents them from taking the necessary steps for their future's to gain assets to be a contender at the right times
4 - Blew the deadline. Missing out on Dylan Cozens was a huge fail and so was not being more pro active on Boeser if the contract situation wasn't going to work out. I'm pretty certain at this point that either ego or ownership is having too much of an influence on decisions.
Hindsight is 20/20 and i do think the Blaldersons are good managers but they have made some critical mistakes and made this an extremely tenuous situation as they manage through the rest of this year and into next. Fixing the forwards in an escalating cap situation is a nightmare. Good luck with that.....they missed the Sabres life line they like to throw to teams every few yrs.
1 - Was the Defence where they thought they could get by with letting Zadorov and Cole walk in free agency and replacing them with Forbort Desharnais then Brannstrom while not even upgrading Juulsen who has been a trooper but simply not even a decent #7-8. Also think they miss judged Soucy like a lot of fans here who i had argued with about last year when i thought he wasn't nearly as good as people were letting on
2 - Was the management of injuries and off ice issues. Throwing players under the bus publicly an inability to communicate what the hell was going on and a lack of understanding of what was going on with 3 of the teams biggest stars with a track record in tow of doing the same crap. Why was it necessary to take aim at Pettersson and then keep him and trade Miller or why tell everyone Boeser had little value at the deadline and now watch him skate around like he doesn't give 2 F's
3 - Was once it was inevitable Miller was leaving not being able to take a step back approach and think 2-3yrs down the road vs this ridiculous appease the owner dog shit that had them waste Miller's assets on pending UFAs and a player with hockeyIQ and concussion issues . Yes M.Pettersson is a good player and the contract worked out ok but what was the panic to throw a 14th OA pick at the time into a trade when the season was obviously a wash. What was going to prevent them from being able to get him as a UFA or a shorter term stop gap to bridge to DPettersson. Again this whole mentality of clinging to the immediate future that Canadian teams do that constantly prevents them from taking the necessary steps for their future's to gain assets to be a contender at the right times
4 - Blew the deadline. Missing out on Dylan Cozens was a huge fail and so was not being more pro active on Boeser if the contract situation wasn't going to work out. I'm pretty certain at this point that either ego or ownership is having too much of an influence on decisions.
Hindsight is 20/20 and i do think the Blaldersons are good managers but they have made some critical mistakes and made this an extremely tenuous situation as they manage through the rest of this year and into next. Fixing the forwards in an escalating cap situation is a nightmare. Good luck with that.....they missed the Sabres life line they like to throw to teams every few yrs.
I agree with all except number 3. I actually like the trades made around Miller alone. I think you can't wait too the off season sometimes to acquire guys. Especially when it allowed us to dump other dead money for next season.
I think it was more so the trade deadline, and note my expectation really changed around this when it was clear Hughes was more hurt and same with Demko. Those were two huge parts of our team even though Lank has been great.
If we were more proactive maybe we good have created a market. This also comes from someone who says you don't sell low on guys. So in a vacuum if we were not offered a good price i would not have sold on guys, but this goes back to being proactive. Create that market.
Yes i get the value of some certainty and see what you're saying.
Given the ages of our core 1st round picks are not that valuable either if we use them or the market doesn't have many good players names circulating but i still look at the LD market this off season and see a lot of potential to just sign a good player vs trading a 14OA and Fernstrom to fix a couple weaknesses that are irrelevant without fixing our top5 players quality.
They must have known that trading Miller would have a negative effect on BB6 and that EP40 was never going to get to a stage of having enough impact to carry the team this year. Demko was another obvious reason to not go crazy on trying to salvage a season plus Hughes being declared as having to play through it
I suggested relaying or putting Chytil DOC and Hronek even into the market for players who could be a part of the 5 that are on the ice in the most critical dying moments and people met me with stern resistance and even anger.
Same thing i've been saying about LD that a stop gap is fine given DPetey's projection and Hughes dominance at the position for 25minutes but again M.Pettersson is a really good short term solution so for now people want to take the small positional wins without addressing the real elephant in the room.
I mean it's obviously difficult because every team is trying to improve the top 5 on the ice when you need a goal types but we've got a few spots open to fill and fixing the mid levels with prime assets seems like wasting opportunities to me.
They should never have targeted Chytil. Its not even a hindsight thing, he was neither a 2C because of a lack of finish nor likely to achieve his ceiling because of the Lindros-ian way he plays the C position. With the way Canadian/American relationships are going, acquiring Canadian players will be an underrated priority, I would rather add to acquire Lafreniere, but was it ever proven that Miller would veto any trade other than to play with his buddy Trochek?
"being more pro active" is a tough sell on Allvin, who used to be the most proactive of ALL the GMs last year. I have to agree this TDL result does seem to indicate that he was under some restriction on what he can do. I believe what he says that the market for Boeser is low, but was it nonexistent when Beauvillier went for a 2nd? So what is preventing him from marketing Boeser? Speed. Beauvillier has footspeed, Boeser has none, we all know that Hankinen was given the green light to seek a trade before, but came back empty handed. I believe ownership is against just unloading the player for whatever is available, say a low second etc... because Aqua does know the sentiment around the players in his market. I've seen him get approached by fans at Eliza a few times, to think how he will look if he sold Boeser for pennies? So in some ways Allvin's hands are likely tied.
We were not getting Lafreniere... so not sure what your point is there.
Being proactive this year is different... We waited to decide what to do with Brock. We were a reactionary team from all sources I have seen. that was a problem.
thats the second part of my point, are we restricted to trading with Rangers? if Lafreniere is unattainable, than move on to someone else, someone not Chytil, or another trade partner all together.
The reactionary part is because we are right on the bubble, that factored greatly into how they appraoch the TDL. They also factor how Hughes and the dressing room would react to just dumping Boeser for whatever they can get. Hughes potential extension plays greatly into how they manage their assets these next 2 years. It is a problem, but its something as a fan and as a manager I can see it being 50/50, standing pat or going aggressively rebuild are both feasible paths forward, both approach can lead to favorable results in revenue and fan satisfaction.
All these to say I understand why the TDL played out the way it did. and once again Aqua played a big role.
I dont think they anticipated how badly lost Boeser is minus Miller, they definitely didnt anticipate losing Chytil altogether, they are banking on EP40 breaking out of his slump (which is a big gamble). These are hindsight, in hindsight, we should definitely have dealt Boeser for a 3rd round pick, but not Tulsky's offer of KK and our top prospect for that 1st.
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In the case of 4. The only way we were getting Cozens is by trading Pettersson instead of Miller. Which is a debatable stance to take no matter how we feel about Pettersson's performance this season. Otherwise, maybe you pry him loose but it's costing us Willander and/or Lekkerimaki.
The latter is precisely why we couldn't do much of anything this season trade wise. Practically every team wanted Willander. Now where Allvin and co can be blamed is they put us in a weakened position with our abysmal defense that teams thought they could take advantage.
As for Boeser. If we were supposedly only offered a 2nd, then there's zero chance Aquilini was ever allowing that trade to happen. Even if he did, Allvin is kind of screwed no matter what he does. If he agreed, you can pretty much guarantee half the fanbase is up in arms at the low return.
Unfortunately, Boeser has played so poorly this season he just doesn't have attractive value. Could they have traded Suter? Maybe, but I'd actually prefer they just re-sign him. We really don't have a replacement for what he brings in the bottom six.
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