Management Thread Blurst of Times

[sting101]

In the case of 4. The only way we were getting Cozens is by trading Pettersson instead of Miller. Which is a debatable stance to take no matter how we feel about Pettersson's performance this season. Otherwise, maybe you pry him loose but it's costing us Willander and/or Lekkerimaki.

The latter is precisely why we couldn't do much of anything this season trade wise. Practically every team wanted Willander. Now where Allvin and co can be blamed is they put us in a weakened position with our abysmal defense that teams thought they could take advantage.

As for Boeser. If we were supposedly only offered a 2nd, then there's zero chance Aquilini was ever allowing that trade to happen. Even if he did, Allvin is kind of screwed no matter what he does. If he agreed, you can pretty much guarantee half the fanbase is up in arms at the low return.

Unfortunately, Boeser has played so poorly this season he just doesn't have attractive value. Could they have traded Suter? Maybe, but I'd actually prefer they just re-sign him. We really don't have a replacement for what he brings in the bottom six.

I think we have enough attractive pieces to outbid Norris attached to that contract.

As i said think 2-3 yrs down the road not just today. Buffalo certainly didn't get or want a prospect as they stupidly even attached a 2nd rounder to Cozens to bring in a player who was going to be stuck in Buffalo.

Chytil Hronek could have returned not just Cozens but potentially both Cozens and Byram or even Ostlund who would be fantastic with Lekkerimaki DPetey and Willander down the road

 

[racerjoe]

thats the second part of my point, are we restricted to trading with Rangers? if Lafreniere is unattainable, than move on to someone else, someone not Chytil, or another trade partner all together.

The reactionary part is because we are right on the bubble, that factored greatly into how they appraoch the TDL. They also factor how Hughes and the dressing room would react to just dumping Boeser for whatever they can get. Hughes potential extension plays greatly into how they manage their assets these next 2 years. It is a problem, but its something as a fan and as a manager I can see it being 50/50, standing pat or going aggressively rebuild are both feasible paths forward, both approach can lead to favorable results in revenue and fan satisfaction.

All these to say I understand why the TDL played out the way it did. and once again Aqua played a big role.

I dont think they anticipated how badly lost Boeser is minus Miller, they definitely didnt anticipate losing Chytil altogether, they are banking on EP40 breaking out of his slump (which is a big gamble). These are hindsight, in hindsight, we should definitely have dealt Boeser for a 3rd round pick, but not Tulsky's offer of KK and our top prospect for that 1st.

Were we restricted... unknown. Heard it both ways.

Being reactionary is what cost Vancouver, and to a lesser degree a team like the Canes, who had interest in Boeser. just because you are close does not mean you can't have talks. You don't need to make a move before the deadline... but create that market. Plus management should know more than us.

We are semi close... I do feel as I noted in my first post, I would not have traded our players for nothing. We get good assets back or we don't trade them. Don't bend. That is again why we needed to be proactive.

I don't include losing Chytil into this. I am talking about what we knew at the TDL... and even before. Hughes was out for more than a month. Petey was badly struggling, Demko has been gone for most of the season. There is lots of reasons why conversations should have been had, again not meaning moves were needed earlier, just more proactive.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Tocchet not interested in talking contract with Canucks in-season

<a href="https://canucksarmy.com/combinations">Vancouver Canucks</a> h...

canucksarmy.com

The management should threaten to trade him to force his hand!

 

[theguardianII]

Allvin regurgitates the old "we are a young team" stuff. Compared to who?

There are a few "lists" out there grading players under 25 yrs old. The Canucks have none in the top 25-50.

It appears that any player that practiced is counted.

This management group trades for other teams prospects. The boys in Abby must just be filled with confidence that this management group is so invested in them. Trade for some other prospect and then sign him to a bigger contract than any toiling for years here is offered, sight unseen.
I can see that Connor is a large specimen and decently fast but what does that say about the depth in Abby? To those players? To the fans? An unintended slight on the state of the team?

The Canucks ARE NOT a young team by NHL standards, actually dead middle while counting several under the league average that are part time players with very limited number of games.

 

[Bgav]

Allvin regurgitates the old "we are a young team" stuff. Compared to who?

There are a few "lists" out there grading players under 25 yrs old. The Canucks have none in the top 25-50.

It appears that any player that practiced is counted.

This management group trades for other teams prospects. The boys in Abby must just be filled with confidence that this management group is so invested in them. Trade for some other prospect and then sign him to a bigger contract than any toiling for years here is offered, sight unseen.
I can see that Connor is a large specimen and decently fast but what does that say about the depth in Abby? To those players? To the fans? An unintended slight on the state of the team?

The Canucks ARE NOT a young team by NHL standards, actually dead middle while counting several under the league average that are part time players with very limited number of games.

aren't they the 7th youngest team in the nhl

 

[theguardianII]

aren't they the 7th youngest team in the nhl

no, average is half way, this table includes several part time players, Aman, Karlsson, Mancini, etc...and others that have had a cup of coffee.

Team Statistics​

• Share & Export

Team	AvAge	GP	W	L	OL	PTS	PTS%	GF	GA	SRS	SOS	GF/G	GA/G	PP	PPO	PP%	PPA	PPOA	PK%	SH	SHA	S	S%	SA	SV%	PDO	SO
Vancouver Canucks	28.7	68	32	25	11	75	.551	189	204	-0.25	-0.05	2.78	3.00	43	189	22.75	33	190	82.63	3	6	1722	11.0	1812	.887	99.8	5
League Average	28.7	68	34	27	7	75	.550	202	202					40	185	21.61	40	185	78.39	5	5	1918	10.6	1918	.894		4

 

[theguardianII]

Is Jack Hughes injured enough for the Devils to trade him for Pettersson?

I never would have thought of this being possible.

Could the Canucks trade for the Hughes brothers? That would make Quinn happy and guarantee he stays in Vancouver.

Who could they offer up after Pettersson? Willander?, couple of firsts? The other EP? Demko?

 

[arttk]

thats the second part of my point, are we restricted to trading with Rangers?

Seems that way, there were rumors of the Avs targeting Miller but Miller won’t waive for them.

 

[arttk]

I think we have enough attractive pieces to outbid Norris attached to that contract.

We don’t have anything that is as attractive as Cozens and no, Buffalo is not looking for futures.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Is Jack Hughes injured enough for the Devils to trade him for Pettersson?

I never would have thought of this being possible.

Could the Canucks trade for the Hughes brothers? That would make Quinn happy and guarantee he stays in Vancouver.

Who could they offer up after Pettersson? Willander?, couple of firsts? The other EP? Demko?

Calm down you silly goose!

 

[andora]

Is Jack Hughes injured enough for the Devils to trade him for Pettersson?

I never would have thought of this being possible.

Could the Canucks trade for the Hughes brothers? That would make Quinn happy and guarantee he stays in Vancouver.

Who could they offer up after Pettersson? Willander?, couple of firsts? The other EP? Demko?

No jack hughes

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

No jack hughes

You'd sooner pluck the moon from the sky and bring it back to earth than get Jack in blue and green. Not that I wouldn't welcome it.

Jack Hughes is an amazing hockey player, but he isn't a center. He's a playmaking winger who can attack with speed and distribute the puck better than any other winger on this team. He just happens to also play center.

Whoa, where have I heard that before I wonder

/s

 

[theguardianII]

You'd sooner pluck the moon from the sky and bring it back to earth than get Jack in blue and green. Not that I wouldn't welcome it.

Jack Hughes is an amazing hockey player, but he isn't a center. He's a playmaking winger who can attack with speed and distribute the puck better than any other winger on this team. He just happens to also play center.

Whoa, where have I heard that before I wonder

/s

Just throwing shat at the wall to see what sticks.

On some teams it isn't where you line up on a face off, it is how a line plays together. Not a Tocchet thing.

Any player can check a star like a dog on a bone.

Positional starting only lasts about 3 seconds, then it should be 1-2-3-4-5, forechecker, retriever, finisher. The 200 foot center is good to have but that can be substituted by two 150 foot specialists.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Just throwing shat at the wall to see what sticks.

On some teams it isn't where you line up on a face off, it is how a line plays together. Not a Tocchet thing.

Any player can check a star like a dog on a bone.

Positional starting only lasts about 3 seconds, then it should be 1-2-3-4-5, forechecker, retriever, finisher. The 200 foot center is good to have but that can be substituted by two 150 foot specialists.

Well ya, that is illustrated quite poignantly with EP's deployment on the OG 649 line.

Guess it hinges on how you see EP40, but your understanding of the game clearly surpasses my own.

Most of the problem with the system laid out is that EP has had to be both the forechecker and retriever on his own line. That kind of player is bound to get injured eventually, but he just goes to the dirty areas with a certain kind of fearless stupidity.

Like, I've seen it so often the past 2 years...he's trying to play a JT Miller game in a different, less prepared body for that kind of contact. It has a price. I'd like to see him mould into a more finesse game, where he doesn't have to go to the dirty areas as often, but can still be somewhat effective overall.

Patrice Bergeron did this the greatest, but when he got let off the leash he paid a heavy price. And rightfully so. You can't possibly become that great without massive sacrifice.

 

[theguardianII]

Well ya, that is illustrated quite poignantly with EP's deployment on the OG 649 line.

Guess it hinges on how you see EP40, but your understanding of the game clearly surpasses my own.

Most of the problem with the system laid out is that EP has had to be both the forechecker and retriever on his own line. That kind of player is bound to get injured eventually, but he just goes to the dirty areas with a certain kind of fearless stupidity.

Like, I've seen it so often the past 2 years...he's trying to play a JT Miller game in a different, less prepared body for that kind of contact. It has a price. I'd like to see him mould into a more finesse game, where he doesn't have to go to the dirty areas as often, but can still be somewhat effective overall.

Patrice Bergeron did this the greatest, but when he got let off the leash he paid a heavy price. And rightfully so. You can't possibly become that great without massive sacrifice.

EP40 has become a pretty good shut down center but that isn't what he is paid for, there are 6 other players that could do that, be shadows at 1/10th the price.
Often he has more hits credited than shots and his hits are more bumps than impactful.

It isn't rocket science to build a line, sometimes it takes some time for chemistry to form, see Sedins/Burrows. Some players are offensively skilled enough to make linemates better players, they aren't really it is just the linemates can ease up on the thinking part and just go to more of the doing part. Don't think, do.

But line combos won't always be plug and play, Tocchet wants all to be the same, so because there are fewer high skilled guys then the skill has to drop to the lowest common denominator, then they are all the same. Tocchet's system is for under skilled teams that rely on special teams, that 10 minutes of ice time where there are PPs or PKs and the rest is traps, locks and waste as much time along the boards 5 on 5.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Pretty well all the same complaints, I have.

We are built like that, though to rely on our special teams.

No f***ing clue why a PP can't come together and figure it the f*** out, instead of running the 2 same plays with varying levels of success. I haven't seen five guys stand around doing nothing so perfectly well. Seriously.

Throw some tea and get a nice sepia tone the powerplay would look like an old-time photo where you had to stay still for like 4 ungodly hours. It's that bad some nights.

 

[theguardianII]

Pretty well all the same complaints, I have.

We are built like that, though to rely on our special teams.

No f***ing clue why a PP can't come together and figure it the f*** out, instead of running the 2 same plays with varying levels of success. I haven't seen five guys stand around doing nothing so perfectly well. Seriously.

Throw some tea and get a nice sepia tone the powerplay would look like an old-time photo where you had to stay still for like 4 ungodly hours. It's that bad some nights.

How to start scoring when most of the year guys are benched for leaving the zone early? Or missing a check?

If practicing defence every game, sometimes it is hard to "re-program" the brain to do what used to come naturally. Thinking just gets in the way.

Having Hughes hold the puck all the time freezes some players too, offence or covering up? Get open and wait?
The plan of Tocchets right now seems to be crash the net and get pucks in off the ass, leg, skate or just knock the goalie around, especially with soft teams.

I really hope, HOPE, management is thinking 2 years in the future and making unemotional decisions about building that team starting now.
With 4 GMs and Rutherford I just don't wee how they couldn't think of every possibility. In a way I think they are, I think that if they can convince Boeser nobody wanted him, i doubt that because his agent had permission to talk to all teams, Allvin hopes he can sign him to a dirt cheap contract and keep some fans emotionally attached and happy. As it is now if he leaves it is not Allvin's fault, "cover your ass".

 

[F A N]

EP40 has become a pretty good shut down center but that isn't what he is paid for, there are 6 other players that could do that, be shadows at 1/10th the price.
Often he has more hits credited than shots and his hits are more bumps than impactful.

It isn't rocket science to build a line, sometimes it takes some time for chemistry to form, see Sedins/Burrows. Some players are offensively skilled enough to make linemates better players, they aren't really it is just the linemates can ease up on the thinking part and just go to more of the doing part. Don't think, do.

But line combos won't always be plug and play, Tocchet wants all to be the same, so because there are fewer high skilled guys then the skill has to drop to the lowest common denominator, then they are all the same. Tocchet's system is for under skilled teams that rely on special teams, that 10 minutes of ice time where there are PPs or PKs and the rest is traps, locks and waste as much time along the boards 5 on 5.

Not disagreeing with what you wrote but I seem to recall the Sedins and Burrows having near instant chemistry? But pretty much everyone had an initial Sedins bump.