Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

[valkynax]

Dear JEB

F***, YOU.

 

[LordBacon]

Just watched the game and Olli Juolevi does it again

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

She just sounds unpleasant

What is Doerrie’s job right now anyway?

In this recent heat, maybe she Only sells Fans…

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

We should be moving heaven & earth to sign Kyle Dubas asap

It's not realistic given where we're at, but I think Dubas is going to have success in his next stop and if the timing were right I'd very much be into hiring him.

I think that, with what he learned from some of his pratfalls in T.O., he would usher in a more Gillis-like forward thinking era.

 

[Icebreakers]

Teams with dmen under 6 ft

Vegas has 0

Dallas has 1 (he plays 11 mins a game)

Florida has 0

Carolina has 1 (plays third pair)

Every team prioritizes size, toughness and mobility.


For the Canucks to be a contending team, you can pretty much only get away with 1 player with Hughes's play style.

You need guys like

Pesce
Slavin
Lindell

who all play upwards of 23 minutes a game making in the range of 5-6 million dollars per year who all have size and mobility.

Going with the Canucks current roster, you need Hughes and 5 players the complete opposite of Hughes. OEL, Myers, Bear all have to go as far as im concerned.

The fact that you add in Hronek...he better be able to be an all around dman not making more than 6m.


Basically...you build a dcore exactly like our 2011 team where every pair you can play 20 minutes. All that core needed is a #1 instead of Edler and it would have been perfect.


Jim Benning couldnt have found worse players to pair up with Hughes. Literally the two worst in OEL and Myers.

Its really not rocket science.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Teams with dmen under 6 ft

Vegas has 0

Dallas has 1 (he plays 11 mins a game)

Florida has 0

Carolina has 1 (plays third pair)

Every team prioritizes size, toughness and mobility.


For the Canucks to be a contending team, you can pretty much only get away with 1 player with Hughes's play style.

You need guys like

Pesce
Slavin
Lindell

who all play upwards of 23 minutes a game making in the range of 5-6 million dollars per year who all have size and mobility.

Going with the Canucks current roster, you need Hughes and 5 players the complete opposite of Hughes. OEL, Myers, Bear all have to go as far as im concerned.

The fact that you add in Hronek...he better be able to be an all around dman not making more than 6m.


Basically...you build a dcore exactly like our 2011 team where every pair you can play 20 minutes. All that core needed is a #1 instead of Edler and it would have been perfect.


Jim Benning couldnt have found worse players to pair up with Hughes. Literally the two worst in OEL and Myers.

Its really not rocket science.

Girard 5-10
Makar 5-11
MacDonald 6-0
Toews 6-1
Murray 6-1

 

[Vector]

Girard 5-10
Makar 5-11
MacDonald 6-0
Toews 6-1
Murray 6-1

Three of those defensemen are not under 6’0!

 

[CanucksSayEh]

NHL height and weight listings are about as accurate as Tinder profiles.

 

[strattonius]

NHL height and weight listings are about as accurate as Tinder profiles.

And such a pointless way to extrapolate information.

Like if you have 4 undersized offensive defensemen it's probably not good chemistry.
But if you have 1 offensive defenseman and 3 smaller guys that are tenacious, block shots and move the puck well why on Earth would it matter if they were 1 inch taller.

And also, correlating the size of the defense to the top teams is inaccurate. The difference between the biggest defense in the league and the smallest is likely a small margin. It's really just the players we need to evaluate, not how many cm's tall they are.

 

[mriswith]

My takeaway of the last couple years of trends is that size on defense, like defensive ability in general, is underpaid relative to cap value.

We see that size and toughness sometimes moves away from market value like in years past when it was overdrafted and it seems that it is similarly but in the opposite direction underpaid in the league for what it provides.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Three of those defensemen are not under 6’0!

By gawd you are right!

 

[oceanchild]

How would the group feel about Tavares for Boeser and Garland

He is soft and doesn’t show up in the playoffs, but we can’t make them so it wouldn’t matter. Would be a great one two punch and it would deal with the gut of wingers.

Kuzmenko Pettersson Beauviller
Podkolzin Tavares Miller
Hoglander Barbashev ($3.25m) Mikayhev
Joshua Aman Dries

Hughes Hronek
Gavrikov ($4.5M) Dumba ($5.25m)
Hirose Schenn ($1.75m)
Rathbone


Pearson - LTIR and good depth if he comes back

Buy out OEL, Trade Miller

Still to high, but would love to see
This

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How would the group feel about Tavares for Boeser and Garland

He is soft and doesn’t show up in the playoffs, but we can’t make them so it wouldn’t matter. Would be a great one two punch and it would deal with the gut of wingers.

Kuzmenko Pettersson Beauviller
Podkolzin Tavares Miller
Hoglander Barbashev ($3.25m) Mikayhev
Joshua Aman Dries

Hughes Hronek
Gavrikov ($4.5M) Dumba ($5.25m)
Hirose Schenn ($1.75m)
Rathbone


Pearson - LTIR and good depth if he comes back

Buy out OEL, Trade Miller

Still to high, but would love to see
This

Tavares has a NMC.

 

[Kryten]

How would the group feel about Tavares for Boeser and Garland

He is soft and doesn’t show up in the playoffs, but we can’t make them so it wouldn’t matter. Would be a great one two punch and it would deal with the gut of wingers.

Kuzmenko Pettersson Beauviller
Podkolzin Tavares Miller
Hoglander Barbashev ($3.25m) Mikayhev
Joshua Aman Dries

Hughes Hronek
Gavrikov ($4.5M) Dumba ($5.25m)
Hirose Schenn ($1.75m)
Rathbone


Pearson - LTIR and good depth if he comes back

Buy out OEL, Trade Miller

Still to high, but would love to see
This

If we added our 1st Toronto still wouldnt do it, why would they

 

[oceanchild]

If we added our 1st Toronto still wouldnt do it, why would they

They will be trading one of the big 4, it will be either Tavares or Marner IMO. How many teams will be open to taking on a $11m contract and that he would wave for. I don’t think he has as much value as you are staying and Garland has good underlying numbers and Boeser is overpaid but they will have to take cap hit back.

No way I add the first

 

[Intangibos]

My takeaway of the last couple years of trends is that size on defense, like defensive ability in general, is underpaid relative to cap value.

We see that size and toughness sometimes moves away from market value like in years past when it was overdrafted and it seems that it is similarly but in the opposite direction underpaid in the league for what it provides.

You're right, a good player with size is very oppressive to play against and we could probably work to improve our abilities on placing a value on "size" and how it interacts with a player's overall ability.

I think the issue is that size doesn't always translate to the ice. It isn't automatic, it's a tool to be used that allows a player to make plays he wouldn't otherwise be able to which is a reflection of hockey IQ. If a player doesn't have the skill/hockey IQ to use it effectively it becomes nothing more than a weak crutch that gets exploited by good players. Smaller players have to learn good positioning and stick work to get by and make it to a high level while bigger guys do tend to get by a lot easier playing against smaller competition in junior etc. Then you have fringe NHLers like Gudbranson who get by on their "size" which I think makes a lot of us here begin to see size as a negative asset (inflating salary, not seeing size itself as bad) due to the association with players like him being overvalued which isn't really fair to the players who use it well.

A big player that makes his size a valuable trait is a player like Willie Mitchell who is in good position, covers a lot of ice, and has great reach with his stick while also being able to physically push players around and get them out of position while maintain his own positioning. He isn't known as a goon or a guy who is always throwing crushing hits, but yeah from time to time he would get someone real good and make a huge impact play, no pun intended. Size just lets players express their hockey IQ better while even very smart players that lack size can get choked out of the game if they can't maintain their positioning against the stronger players.

I could also see there being a number of coaching issues when it comes to coaching big players, though I may be biased because I think a lot of NHL coaching is dreadful. Thinking back to when we had Kassian on our team and we were trying to get him to play "north-south hockey". North-South hockey is a good way for a big player to use his size, but it also doesn't allow for as much skill expression in the game. Similar to Bertuzzi when the Islanders wanted the same thing out of him but it just wasn't the game he needed to play. I suspect there are a lot of coaches in the league that really push big players to make their size the focus of their game rather than a part of their game which is a shame. I have no real basis for that though, I just want to shit on NHL coaches because as a seasoned armchair GM I could do better =]

 

[Kryten]

They will be trading one of the big 4, it will be either Tavares or Marner IMO. How many teams will be open to taking on a $11m contract and that he would wave for. I don’t think he has as much value as you are staying and Garland has good underlying numbers and Boeser is overpaid but they will have to take cap hit back.

No way I add the first

It is laughable for Toronto and a hilarious homer suggestion by you. If Toronto trades one of the big 4 they will be getting back a D, whether that is an established D or an up and coming D with a cap dump to even the numbers is the only question

 

[Peen]

I won’t read most replies to this given how stupid/personal woe is me the commentary got a few days ago, but thought it would be good to post for those that hadn’t seen this.

GM is plugged into the Aquilinis. I know @MS also always hated the narrative of Benning being nothing more than a puppet who was taken advantage of and deserved more sympathy - that everything was on ownership.

And it’s just garbage. We saw the way Linden played out. The moves he made were stupid regardless of a theoretical mandate.

He was stupid and bad at his job outside of the first 6 months of 2017. That is it. You cannot make the argument that the constraints placed upon Benning’s circumstance are the reason we suck.

These guys all have a significant amount of blame. Linden from 2014-2017 for willingly being on board with that stupidity until his change of heart. Benning, Weisbrod, FAQ, apparently now Luigi as well.

And if Rutherford and PA don’t have this team looking like essentially a guaranteed playoff team six weeks from now after the first week of July, they are stooges too.

This is also not an overly shocking report. There were rumors numerous times that they considered firing Benning over the years. He kept surviving. Elmer kept selling them bullshit.

 

[oceanchild]

It is laughable for Toronto and a hilarious homer suggestion by you. If Toronto trades one of the big 4 they will be getting back a D, whether that is an established D or an up and coming D with a cap dump to even the numbers is the only question

I don’t think that Marner and Tavares had much value in a world that has had a flat cap and no one has cap space. If they trade them I don’t think they will get much and I would argue that both are overpaid.

 

[arttk]

I don’t think that Marner and Tavares had much value in a world that has had a flat cap and no one has cap space. If they trade them I don’t think they will get much and I would argue that both are overpaid.

GMs probably want to do their version of the Tkachuk trade so they might look at Marner.

I am curious to see if there is a GM out there that is willing to give up 2 big pieces for Marner.

 

[geebaan]

I won’t read most replies to this given how stupid/personal woe is me the commentary got a few days ago, but thought it would be good to post for those that hadn’t seen this.

GM is plugged into the Aquilinis. I know @MS also always hated the narrative of Benning being nothing more than a puppet who was taken advantage of and deserved more sympathy - that everything was on ownership.

And it’s just garbage. We saw the way Linden played out. The moves he made were stupid regardless of a theoretical mandate.

He was stupid and bad at his job outside of the first 6 months of 2017. That is it. You cannot make the argument that the constraints placed upon Benning’s circumstance are the reason we suck.

These guys all have a significant amount of blame. Linden from 2014-2017 for willingly being on board with that stupidity until his change of heart. Benning, Weisbrod, FAQ, apparently now Luigi as well.

And if Rutherford and PA don’t have this team looking like essentially a guaranteed playoff team six weeks from now after the first week of July, they are stooges too.

This is also not an overly shocking report. There were rumors numerous times that they considered firing Benning over the years. He kept surviving. Elmer kept selling them bullshit.

Pastor in absolute shambles after that tweet

 

[oceanchild]

GMs probably want to do their version of the Tkachuk trade so they might look at Marner.

I am curious to see if there is a GM out there that is willing to give up 2 big pieces for Marner.

I think it’s all relative to how you value players but I think that Miller would be the best single
Player offered.

 

[RobertKron]

Pastor in absolute shambles after that tweet

IVE NEVER CLAIMED THAT BENNING WAS JUST DOING WHAT HE WAS TOLD

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I won’t read most replies to this given how stupid/personal woe is me the commentary got a few days ago, but thought it would be good to post for those that hadn’t seen this.

GM is plugged into the Aquilinis. I know @MS also always hated the narrative of Benning being nothing more than a puppet who was taken advantage of and deserved more sympathy - that everything was on ownership.

And it’s just garbage. We saw the way Linden played out. The moves he made were stupid regardless of a theoretical mandate.

He was stupid and bad at his job outside of the first 6 months of 2017. That is it. You cannot make the argument that the constraints placed upon Benning’s circumstance are the reason we suck.

These guys all have a significant amount of blame. Linden from 2014-2017 for willingly being on board with that stupidity until his change of heart. Benning, Weisbrod, FAQ, apparently now Luigi as well.

And if Rutherford and PA don’t have this team looking like essentially a guaranteed playoff team six weeks from now after the first week of July, they are stooges too.

This is also not an overly shocking report. There were rumors numerous times that they considered firing Benning over the years. He kept surviving. Elmer kept selling them bullshit.

Unfortunately Elmer didn’t sell bullshit.

That clown genuinely believed they were always one move away.

Frankie’s too damn stupid and self absorbed to know any different.

 

[DFAC]

Lol