Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[MS]

They've realized (correctly) that the only way out of Benning's mess is through.

There are too many prime-aged players to think a rebuild is remotely an option.

All a multi-year re-tool does is shorten the Demko/Hughes/Pettersson window. Plus this organization needs to get guys like Pettersson back on track in a competitive environment, not a losing one.

It sucks. There were so many f***-ups from Benning that shortened whatever window this team will have and reduced the peak. But right now it's really all we've got and the only reasonable option - hopefully this group can do with Benning's mess what Gillis was able to do with Nonis' mess in 2008.

They haven't been helped by the way the market absolutely died for moving salary.

 

[rypper]

The new management group literally hasn't done anything you said they were going to do..or wanted them to do.

Well obviously???

NHL management groups don't often make a habit of listening to a single fans ideas.

 

[RandV]

They committed themselves to having to win a single home run trade, or win multiple lesser trades, which is the hardest thing there is to do in this league.

Is drafting a Cup calibre franchise pair like MacKinnon/Makar really much easier?

 

[Breakers]

Well management saying things on the first day and doing a complete 180 is pretty par for the course.

We’re used to it in this market

Remember Benning saying
“No GM in the league likes draft picks more than him”

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Well management saying things on the first day and doing a complete 180 is pretty par for the course.

We’re used to it in this market

Remember Benning saying
“No GM in the league likes draft picks more than him”

What did they promise on the first day?...At that early point, they hadn't even properly ascertained/evaluated what they had with this roster.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

They've realized (correctly) that the only way out of Benning's mess is through.

There are too many prime-aged players to think a rebuild is remotely an option.

All a multi-year re-tool does is shorten the Demko/Hughes/Pettersson window. Plus this organization needs to get guys like Pettersson back on track in a competitive environment, not a losing one.

It sucks. There were so many f***-ups from Benning that shortened whatever window this team will have and reduced the peak. But right now it's really all we've got and the only reasonable option - hopefully this group can do with Benning's mess what Gillis was able to do with Nonis' mess in 2008.

They haven't been helped by the way the market absolutely died for moving salary.

While I understand a lot of what they have done (or not done), they also should not have made comments at the end of the season that now look completely contradictory to now.

They stated they needed to create cap flexibility.

They stated the defense was not good enough.

They stated they needed more picks (well atleast not just the ones they had).

None of the above happened. Yes the market dictated a lot of it, but they should have had an idea in a flat cap world that would be the case.

And to think things will just change next year even though they will be in just as tough a spot is reasonable? To me it’s not, regardless of them knowing it and not outright coming out and saying it ala Benning.

Mgmt stated they would have to make tough decisions. I haven’t seen it. To date, they have gone the easy route if being honest.

Even with Boeser’s shit QO, they could have moved him but didn’t.

Could have moved Miller but doubled down.

They haven’t traded anyone.

Benning f***ed this team in more ways than anyone can count, but this mgmt group (to date) have in some cases, made things worse.

I just expected more but unfortunately I was naive to do so.

 

[credulous]

They've realized (correctly) that the only way out of Benning's mess is through.

There are too many prime-aged players to think a rebuild is remotely an option.

All a multi-year re-tool does is shorten the Demko/Hughes/Pettersson window. Plus this organization needs to get guys like Pettersson back on track in a competitive environment, not a losing one.

It sucks. There were so many f***-ups from Benning that shortened whatever window this team will have and reduced the peak. But right now it's really all we've got and the only reasonable option - hopefully this group can do with Benning's mess what Gillis was able to do with Nonis' mess in 2008.

They haven't been helped by the way the market absolutely died for moving salary.

the best time to start a rebuild was 8 years ago. the second best time is right now

there's no reasonable way to evaluate this roster and come up with contender or 1, 2 or even 3 maybe 4 pieces from being a contender. there's no cap space, no organizational depth, no surplus assets and the only promising prospects are blocked or have limited trade value

the demko/hughes/pettersson window is already closed. reopening it will take a miracle. better to scrap it and start over

instead the canucks have chosen to be a pretender for the forseeable future

 

[MS]

While I understand a lot of what they have done (or not done), they also should not have made comments at the end of the season that now look completely contradictory to now.

They stated they needed to create cap flexibility.

They stated the defense was not good enough.

They stated they needed more picks (well atleast not just the ones they had).

None of the above happened. Yes the market dictated a lot of it, but they should have had an idea in a flat cap world that would be the case.

And to think things will just change next year even though they will be in just as tough a spot is reasonable? To me it’s not, regardless of them knowing it and not outright coming out and saying it ala Benning.

Mgmt stated they would have to make tough decisions. I haven’t seen it. To date, they have gone the easy route of being honest.

Even with Boeser’s shot QO, they could have moved him but didn’t.

Could have moved Miller but doubled down.

They haven’t traded anyone.

Benning f***ed this team in more ways than anyone can count, but this mgmt group (to date) have in some cases, made things worse.

I just expected more but unfortunately I was naive to do so.

All of that is fair.

I think the market caught a lot of teams off guard. It certainly caught me off guard.

Like, if you would have said back in May that we could trade Pearson for a 3rd in a Hamonic-esque deal and then package that 3rd with some other small asset to get rid of Dickinson ... I would have said that seems to make pretty good sense and be a realistic possibility. Instead Pearson is a negative value asset and the cost to move Dickinson is two 2nd round picks.

I think their one big mistake so far was not moving on from Boeser to create a nice chunk of cap space where they could fit a quality RHD.

But also all the problems were never going to be fixed in one offseason. The fact that they said the blueline wasn't good enough and haven't been able to make major changes doesn't mean they now think it's good enough. There will be more changes there.

 

[MS]

the best time to start a rebuild was 8 years ago. the second best time is right now

there's no reasonable way to evaluate this roster and come up with contender or 1, 2 or even 3 maybe 4 pieces from being a contender. there's no cap space, no organizational depth, no surplus assets and the only promising prospects are blocked or have limited trade value

the demko/hughes/pettersson window is already closed. reopening it will take a miracle. better to scrap it and start over

instead the canucks have chosen to be a pretender for the forseeable future

No team in any sport ever would rebuild when almost all of their most important players are aged 23-27. This team was never going to be trading Hughes/Demko/Pettersson and starting from scratch and it's ridiculous to set that as an expectation and be disappointed about it when it didn't happen.

 

[Vector]

No team in any sport ever would rebuild when almost all of their most important players are aged 23-27. This team was never going to be trading Hughes/Demko/Pettersson and starting from scratch and it's ridiculous to set that as an expectation and be disappointed about it when it didn't happen.

Not making a comparison but it's very weird that the Blackhawks traded a 21 year old and two 24 year olds.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Not making a comparison but it's very weird that the Blackhawks traded a 21 year old and two 24 year olds.

Full tank job with Zona for Bedard or Michkov

 

[credulous]

No team in any sport ever would rebuild when almost all of their most important players are aged 23-27. This team was never going to be trading Hughes/Demko/Pettersson and starting from scratch and it's ridiculous to set that as an expectation and be disappointed about it when it didn't happen.

there's a huge range between 'strip the team for parts' and 'concede you're not good enough and you need to trade present value for future value'

i'm not suggesting they should trade demko, hughes and pettersson (although i think they should at least entertain moving them as long as they aren't on a path to contending) for draft picks. i'm suggesting they should stop committing resources to the current roster and instead look 2-3 years down the road and focus on maximizing value then. trade miller or horvat (or both). let boeser walk. try to clear oel's contract somehow. preserve cap space for opportunities like bjorkstrand or marino

this management team is acting like vintage shea weber or chris pronger is going to be available for spare parts at the trade deadline and they can go from fringe playoff team to contender with one shrewd move. it's not gonna happen and as long as they pretend it is this team is going nowhere

 

[Vector]

Full tank job with Zona for Bedard or Michkov

Until Kane gives them the greenlight, they'll still win just enough games to hover around the 5th pick.

 

[MS]

there's a huge range between 'strip the team for parts' and 'concede you're not good enough and you need to trade present value for future value'

i'm not suggesting they should trade demko, hughes and pettersson (although i think they should at least entertain moving them as long as they aren't on a path to contending) for draft picks. i'm suggesting they should stop committing resources to the current roster and instead look 2-3 years down the road and focus on maximizing value then. trade miller or horvat (or both). let boeser walk. try to clear oel's contract somehow. preserve cap space for opportunities like bjorkstrand or marino

this management team is acting like vintage shea weber or chris pronger is going to be available for spare parts at the trade deadline and they can go from fringe playoff team to contender with one shrewd move. it's not gonna happen and as long as they pretend it is this team is going nowhere

All looking 2-3 years down the road does is closes your window further. And in the meantime you're an organization with no plan going sideways.

I also struggle to understand why paying a 3rd round pick for the right to pay Bjorkstrand $5.4 million is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY but paying nothing for the right to pay Mikheyev - a similar-aged, better player - $4.9 million is 'wasting resources on the current roster'.

 

[MS]

Not making a comparison but it's very weird that the Blackhawks traded a 21 year old and two 24 year olds.

For starters, the rest of the team was absolutely freaking terrible.

Hagel's value was based entirely off his contact which would run out before there was any hope of competing.
Dach was tracking terribly and they @Melvin'ed and turned him over.

Debrincat surprised me but as a tiny skill winger with a massive QO they did what we probably should have done with Boeser.

 

[credulous]

All looking 2-3 years down the road does is closes your window further. And in the meantime you're an organization with no plan going sideways.

I also struggle to understand why paying a 3rd round pick for the right to pay Bjorkstrand $5.4 million is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY but paying nothing for the right to pay Mikheyev - a similar-aged, better player - $4.9 million is 'wasting resources on the current roster'.

i don't dislike mikheyev or his deal i just don't think he's the kind of piece you use the last of your cap space to acquire. he displaces hoglander or maybe pearson from the top 9. are the canucks really that much better with him in the lineup than out? in my opinion he's a luxury that canucks couldn't really afford

as for bjorkstrand he's had 3 excellent seasons and has a great contract. i think bjorkstrand is easily better than any canucks winger (excluding miller and pettersson if you want to count them)

even if you don't like bjorkstrand players that moved more or less for cap space and a token payment this offseason include marino, pacioretty, petry, burns and zacha. i don't think any of those players are particularly great but i think at least 3 of them (4 if you include bjorkstrand) would provide more meaningful minutes on the canucks than mikheyev and zacha is an intriguing player with a lot of potential upside

 

[racerjoe]

All of that is fair.

I think the market caught a lot of teams off guard. It certainly caught me off guard.

Like, if you would have said back in May that we could trade Pearson for a 3rd in a Hamonic-esque deal and then package that 3rd with some other small asset to get rid of Dickinson ... I would have said that seems to make pretty good sense and be a realistic possibility. Instead Pearson is a negative value asset and the cost to move Dickinson is two 2nd round picks.

I think their one big mistake so far was not moving on from Boeser to create a nice chunk of cap space where they could fit a quality RHD.

But also all the problems were never going to be fixed in one offseason. The fact that they said the blueline wasn't good enough and haven't been able to make major changes doesn't mean they now think it's good enough. There will be more changes there.

My only question which I ask in hindsight, is who is this RHD everyone keeps talking about. Like I agree we should be looking for one but I haven't seen anyone move that we had a reasonable shot at. The only one that moved the Pens were looking for a package we could not have matched.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

My only question which I ask in hindsight, is who is this RHD everyone keeps talking about. Like I agree we should be looking for one but I haven't seen anyone move that we had a reasonable shot at. The only one that moved the Pens were looking for a package we could not have matched.

It’s likely a swap of a forward for a similar young dman who may be down the pecking order because the Top 4-6 ain’t moving.

My bet is Hoglander gets traded for a similar aged dman (22-24).

 

[MS]

My only question which I ask in hindsight, is who is this RHD everyone keeps talking about. Like I agree we should be looking for one but I haven't seen anyone move that we had a reasonable shot at. The only one that moved the Pens were looking for a package we could not have matched.

I would have been fine with trading for Provorov or Chychrun and having 'too many' LHD. I don't think it's the issue most people do and being overloaded on one side didn't seem to hurt Florida, as an example.

Also would have been fine with trading Boeser and just leaving $6-7 million in cap space so that we could be the team that pounced if/when the right player did hit the market.

Or there were guys like Connor Murphy.

 

[racerjoe]

It’s likely a swap of a forward for a similar young dman who may be down the pecking order because the Top 4-6 ain’t moving.

My bet is Hoglander gets traded for a similar aged dman (22-24).

But for who?

I would have been fine with trading for Provorov or Chychrun and having 'too many' LHD. I don't think it's the issue most people do and being overloaded on one side didn't seem to hurt Florida, as an example.

Also would have been fine with trading Boeser and just leaving $6-7 million in cap space so that we could be the team that pounced if/when the right player did hit the market.

Or there were guys like Connor Murphy.

I just don't think any of them wee realistic. Like I would be all over Provorov, I think the ask for Chychrun is just too high period at this point, but we don't have the assets to move for these guys, never mind the space.

Murphy is too often injured. I like Bear the most out of the guys who have been talked about and I think he could be a good buy low candidate, but what is the price? We just saw a bad prospect get a first!

 

[Vector]

@racerjoe I gotta pick up my kid from school but when I get back I’ll find that list I did featuring a bunch of potential defensemen. It was more geared towards finding an alternative to Connor Murphy.

My target would still be Sean Durzi even though I don’t think he’s a perfect fit.

 

[Hit the post]

@racerjoe I gotta pick up my kid from school but when I get back I’ll find that list I did featuring a bunch of potential defensemen. It was more geared towards finding an alternative to Connor Murphy.

My target would still be Sean Durzi even though I don’t think he’s a perfect fit.

Hey pop, you left me standing in front of the school for hours! Not cool.

 

[MS]

But for who?


I just don't think any of them wee realistic. Like I would be all over Provorov, I think the ask for Chychrun is just too high period at this point, but we don't have the assets to move for these guys, never mind the space.

Murphy is too often injured. I like Bear the most out of the guys who have been talked about and I think he could be a good buy low candidate, but what is the price? We just saw a bad prospect get a first!

Chychrun was probably unrealistic.

I don't know if Provorov was? Philly is a gong show and it doesn't sound like either side is terribly happy there.

I'm a big Murphy fan and I don't know why he's still in Chicago and no team has sprung for him yet.

I go back and forth on Bear. I'm not sure he's the best fit ... but maybe he's the best fit that's out there for cheap.

 

[racerjoe]

@racerjoe I gotta pick up my kid from school but when I get back I’ll find that list I did featuring a bunch of potential defensemen. It was more geared towards finding an alternative to Connor Murphy.

My target would still be Sean Durzi even though I don’t think he’s a perfect fit.

I have read your list in other threads, it is a great list. My point for the most part is the fact we haven't seen players move. I would have loved Durzi, but it seems like this is no longer a realistic option with his signing. I think that is the problem. Teams just are not moving these types of players.

Chychrun was probably unrealistic.

I don't know if Provorov was? Philly is a gong show and it doesn't sound like either side is terribly happy there.

I'm a big Murphy fan and I don't know why he's still in Chicago and no team has sprung for him yet.

I go back and forth on Bear. I'm not sure he's the best fit ... but maybe he's the best fit that's out there for cheap.

I just think Covid hurt him last year, and we even saw that here with Bo. Bo once recovered looked night and day different.

 

[Vector]

Chychrun was probably unrealistic.

I don't know if Provorov was? Philly is a gong show and it doesn't sound like either side is terribly happy there.

I'm a big Murphy fan and I don't know why he's still in Chicago and no team has sprung for him yet.

I go back and forth on Bear. I'm not sure he's the best fit ... but maybe he's the best fit that's out there for cheap.

I went over this in other threads but Murphy suffered two concussions last season. With the amount he has left, there’s no way I’d risk taking him on.