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Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

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Tact said:
I don’t know - sounds like mixed responses about Horvat with Allvin. Will be interesting to follow.

He talks about cap space, future signing of Elias Pettersson and recent signing of Miller. Maybe foreshadowing something or just using these factors for negotiations.
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The aging factor comment stands out to me as well because clearly it wasn't an issue with Miller. Horvat is younger. Is it a built in excuse if they let him walk or does Allvin think Horvat's play style is more likely to drop off with age?
 
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rypper said:
The aging factor comment stands out to me as well because clearly it wasn't an issue with Miller. Horvat is younger. Is it a built in excuse if they let him walk or does Allvin think Horvat's play style is more likely to drop off with age?
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Play style is how i took it.. skating and lack of playmaking already
 
I like good old hard working, non-Toronto, Ontario boy Bo as much as anyone. At $5,500,000. I don’t want to be the team to commit to him for almost a decade with a raise. I just don’t see it working out and like how many of these deals need we commit to? You can’t keep everyone well into their thirties.

Even if They Were There Back In The Bubble.
 
I don’t think Miller and Horvat were ever both going to get the money they wanted. Earmarking close to $16M long-term to those guys and then having to pay Pettersson doesn’t really add up.

I do wonder if the front office realized they were likely making the choice when they signed Miller.
 
FlowMaster said:
Bruce seems like a guy who would get on really well with her, unlike some other NHL coaches (and previous coach) out there who are up their own ass.
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I think he is someone who wants to learn and know it, but knows they don't, and knows their limits... which is a good thing.
 
This management is almost as big of a joke as the last. All this talk about change blah blah and they committed to the same roster as Benning. Their excuse was “our hands are tied by the previous signings” meanwhile other organizations found ways to get picks, or free up cap space. We are now all in for years with a core group that is a bubble playoff team. Literally locked in for mediocrity.
 
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I said it when Miller signed, they chose him over Horvat.

Horvat is a goner.

Allvin has changed his tune slightly because they misread the market and about creating cap space. It’s clear they thought it would be easier previously and then had an oh shit moment.

Atleast he’s sticking to his guns and not paying to get out of shit contracts. Unfortunately is a wave you have to ride out.

The defense is garbage and it seems they had limited options, so they fortified the forwards to hopefully help out more.

Health is a misleading comment because the team blew goats on d even when healthy.

The reliance will be for Demko to bail them out but they need a balance. If they run him into the ground again they are f***ed.

So it’s: run it back and see whether the back half of the season was an aberration or not.
 
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Johnny Canucker said:
This management is almost as big of a joke as the last. All this talk about change blah blah and they committed to the same roster as Benning. Their excuse was “our hands are tied by the previous signings” meanwhile other organizations found ways to get picks, or free up cap space. We are now all in for years with a core group that is a bubble playoff team. Literally locked in for mediocrity.
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The biggest change is that they don't sound like blabbering fools when they talk. But that might be even worse, because at least average IQ people could see how f***ing stupid Benning and Weisbrod were just by how they communicate.

Now, because they can talk a big game with higher verbal IQs, we're going to be steeped in mediocrity while having it explained away in a neatly presented, HR manner.
 
Johnny Canucker said:
This management is almost as big of a joke as the last. All this talk about change blah blah and they committed to the same roster as Benning. Their excuse was “our hands are tied by the previous signings” meanwhile other organizations found ways to get picks, or free up cap space. We are now all in for years with a core group that is a bubble playoff team. Literally locked in for mediocrity.
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They committed themselves to having to win a single home run trade, or win multiple lesser trades, which is the hardest thing there is to do in this league.
 
Just A Bit Outside said:
I said it when Miller signed, they chose him over Horvat.

Horvat is a goner.

Allvin has changed his tune slightly because they misread the market and about creating cap space. It’s clear they thought it would be easier previously and then had an oh shit moment.

Atleast he’s sticking to his guns and not paying to get out of shit contracts. Unfortunately is a wave you have to ride out.

The defense is garbage and it seems they had limited options, so they fortified the forwards to hopefully help out more.

Health is a misleading comment because the team blew goats on d even when healthy.

The reliance will be for Demko to bail them out but they need a balance. If they run him into the ground again they are f***ed.

So it’s: run it back and see whether the back half of the season was an aberration or not.
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Running it back with a better coach, and some smaller additions is exactly what this team should be doing though. If this season the team continues to play like they did for Boudreau last season or better, then that’s when they should be looking at trading Myers/Dickinson/Poolman/Pearson contracts. They’ll also be gaining 2.4 mil with Holtby and Virtanen off the books.

If they were to trade any of these guys this off season the price would be much higher as Myers + Dickinson would have 2 years each and Pearson + Poolman 3 years whereas next off season it’ll only be 1 and 2 years. On top of that, playing on a better team with better coaches for the whole season might actually prop up these players’ play and stats, although I’m not really expecting that.

If next season turns out to be a disaster again then you look at trading someone of value to acquire picks/younger players and ride out the bad contracts instead of trading assets.
 
So much doomsaying going on in this thread. This is a cup contending level forward group with a top 5 goalie. Rathbone will develop into a top 4 d man by mid season and this team will be fine.
 
FlowMaster said:
So much doomsaying going on in this thread. This is a cup contending level forward group with a top 5 goalie. Rathbone will develop into a top 4 d man by mid season and this team will be fine.
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Seattle is going to be bad unless their goaltending flips on its head. Now, because goalies are weird, this could happen. But I don’t think it should be something anyone bets on.

SJ/ANA aren’t going to be in it imo. Signing Hertl was a stupid move.
Vegas - has bad juju. can’t imagine them missing b2b? roster still seems ok/balanced? but bad juju.

Calgary - upgraded blueline, same machine goaltending tandem for the reg season. didn’t get that much worse with the forwards.

Edmonton - basically bringing back the same team that is obviously good enough to win games in the reg season. they’ll feast on the bad teams especially.

LA - think they need some of their wealth in depth of prospects to make a leap this season. im not as high. like we’ll be ten games into the season and cal petersen will either be throwing an .880 or a .930 and either way, it’ll be suspect because he hasn’t put it together yet.

i have a lot of issues with our roster. we lack another top six matchup line/pk piece, and two top four d. i think it’s easier for the average billy to think we are close to getting those pieces rather than acknowledging how realistic that is, where other teams are relative to that, can you add those and also build something sustainable for a 5-6 year window, etc. and that’s fine. but that is the situation we are in so i look forward to seeing the genius of allvin and rutherford because that’s what this path will require - hitting 95% of the time.

the nhl is a weird league. you can write off like 6-7 teams every year. disappointments are generally caused by injuries, culture, or goaltending.

last year iirc i leaned 45/55 in favor of us missing - but im more positive this season. betting on the vibes being better and sustained good goaltending.

ill make my actual prediction before day one. who knows, maybe oel/myers pair comes back down to earth or schenn finally hits a wall (all realistic possibilities due to age) and your top four looks even worse. or some of the forwards don’t take a step as expected. or, injuries.

wildcard will be tricky because the two tankiest of tanking teams (ari/chi) in the west are in the central so the teams lurking above them will feed on that
 
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They're not going to move on from Horvat.

If the move on from him, who's the next man up? Dickinson, Lazar, Joshua? People can criticize Horvat in a defensive matchup role, but if he's not doing it then you're turning to Pettersson in a straight up role or taking away offensive time for Miller.

For a team that has playoff aspirations I just don't see it. Especially not at this point in the off season. (and they definitely won't be moving him if they're in the playoff hunt.)
 
I probably shouldn’t have been so naive to trust a newly hired 75 year old to think long term.

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Honestly it seems like something changed with the message and team direction from when JR initially came in, to sometime in the off season. I don't think it's Patrik Allvin coming in steering things this way.
 
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Johnny Canucker said:
This management is almost as big of a joke as the last. All this talk about change blah blah and they committed to the same roster as Benning. Their excuse was “our hands are tied by the previous signings” meanwhile other organizations found ways to get picks, or free up cap space. We are now all in for years with a core group that is a bubble playoff team. Literally locked in for mediocrity.
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What moves did other teams make to do those things at prices you would have paid from our perspective?
 
rypper said:
Honestly it seems like something changed with the message and team direction from when JR initially came in, to sometime in the off season. I don't think it's Patrik Allvin coming in steering things this way.
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The new management group literally hasn't done anything you said they were going to do..or wanted them to do.
 
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