Malkin is the best Russian player ever

[Siludin]

To me this will come down to all-time playoff history, and Malkin has had some absolutely amazing runs. If he can continue what he's been doing for another two healthy seasons, any naysayers in this thread will be silenced.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Except Crosby and Malkin don't play on the same line, so how are they padding each other's stats besides on the PP?

Not to mention Malkin's numbers are higher when Crosby's out of the lineup than when he's in the lineup. Malkin would be even more highly regarded if he was the main star of the team, but i think he'll take the team success any day.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

To me this will come down to all-time playoff history, and Malkin has had some absolutely amazing runs. If he can continue what he's been doing for another two healthy seasons, any naysayers in this thread will be silenced.

he already has a far superior playoff history to any other russian

anything he does now just puts his legacy out of reach for any future russian players

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I checked the 2008 season Ovechkin spent 60% Of the time with Kozlov and 59% with Backstrom 5 on 5. So more than half of the time Backstrom was on the ice. Ovechkin even strength point in 2006 and 2007 was 52 and 55. Points. He average 71 even strength points from 2008 to 2010. An 18 point increase I think Backstrom gets some credit for that. That 2008 Ovechkin had a lot more points than Backstorm but doesn't mean Backstorm wasn't a factor on a lot of his points.

Very hard for you confince me that Backstrom has nothing to do with Ovechkin points. So tell me if Backstrom wasn't around. Would Ovechkin still get the same amount even strength points?

Backstorm is a product of Ovechkin Green Semin of course those players get some credit. But to say his.100 point was product of those players is ridiculous. When you have time go YouTube watch some of his passes he makes.

To have any evidences that's goal are more valuable that assist or is that just your opinion? When debating I like it When some evidences is provided.

So all the active players Ovechkin is ranked 1st in gpg and 17th in apg and 3rd in ppg? Malkin 4th in gpg and 3rd in apg and 2nd in ppg. So how does that make Ovechkin better than Malkin? If you value goal scoring so much. I am surprised Bure is not in this conversation. Bure does have a higher goal per a game than Ovechkin. I dont see you or anyone else that is saying Bure is the best Russian player.

I admit Ovechkin is a much a better goal scoring. I am not debating that. But doesnt mean he is better player because of thst skillset.

Yes Ovechkin bad season doesn't have impact on the future. I brought that up because comparing a lot of Malkin vs Ovechkin seasons. Ovechkin best season was a nose hair better than malkin. Ovechkin worst season was worst than Malkin

You did agree Malkin is better in the playoffs than Ovechkin. You also wrote there are argument that Ovechkin is better than Malkin and argument Malkin is better than Ovechkin. I am assuming you are talking about regular season because playoffs you said Malkin is better.

So therefore shouldn't you think Malkin be better than Ovechkin? Reg season There are arguments both ways and playoff there is no strong argument from you since you admit that Malkin is better in the playoffs.

Well first off, there was no drop-off in Ovechkin's production in his time vs Kozlov vs his time with Backstrom. I don't see a significant increase there. There were far more PP opportunities on average right after the lockout, that explains why everybody had bloated PP numbers in 2006 and 2007. The refs called everything, so of course a lot of Ovechkin's production came on the PP as a rookie.

Now, up until 2011, it was Ovechkin's role to carry the play on his line. A lot of Backstrom's assist were just him retrieving the puck in the defensive zone and giving it to Ovechkin who went to score on the rush.



When I say Backstrom's 100 point season is the product of the players around him, I mean to say that he would never have hit 100 point without them. He got his numbers padded by Ovechkin, Semin and Green. He's a much better player today and he has a hard time scoring over 80 points.

Goals are worth more than assists in my opinion. 50 assists is nothing special but 50 goals is. There is an award for goals, not for assists. Goals are counted on the scoreboard but not assists. You can score an unassisted goal but you can't have an assist if no one scores a goal.

Bure is not in the conversation because his career was too short. Besides, he was never the best player in the world at any point in time, unlike Ovechkin and Malkin. His GPG is higher but it was equal to Ovechkin's when Ovechkin had played exactly the same amount of games. Bure doesn't have single thing that puts him above Ovechkin at this point.

In the end, I think Ovechkin's superior goalscoring, him being healthy 98% of the time makes up the difference in their postseason play. Playoff production is mostly influenced by the team you play for, and is a small sample size anyway.

It's up to you, they're roughly at the same level overall.

 

[Canucks1096]

Well first off, there was no drop-off in Ovechkin's production in his time vs Kozlov vs his time with Backstrom. I don't see a significant increase there. There were far more PP opportunities on average right after the lockout, that explains why everybody had bloated PP numbers in 2006 and 2007. The refs called everything, so of course a lot of Ovechkin's production came on the PP as a rookie.


Now, up until 2011, it was Ovechkin's role to carry the play on his line. A lot of Backstrom's assist were just him retrieving the puck in the defensive zone and giving it to Ovechkin who went to score on the rush.



When I say Backstrom's 100 point season is the product of the players around him, I mean to say that he would never have hit 100 point without them. He got his numbers padded by Ovechkin, Semin and Green. He's a much better player today and he has a hard time scoring over 80 points.

Goals are worth more than assists in my opinion. 50 assists is nothing special but 50 goals is. There is an award for goals, not for assists. Goals are counted on the scoreboard but not assists. You can score an unassisted goal but you can't have an assist if no one scores a goal.

Bure is not in the conversation because his career was too short. Besides, he was never the best player in the world at any point in time, unlike Ovechkin and Malkin. His GPG is higher but it was equal to Ovechkin's when Ovechkin had played exactly the same amount of games. Bure doesn't have single thing that puts him above Ovechkin at this point.

In the end, I think Ovechkin's superior goalscoring, him being healthy 98% of the time makes up the difference in their postseason play. Playoff production is mostly influenced by the team you play for, and is a small sample size anyway.

It's up to you, they're roughly at the same level overall.

So simple question pretend if there no Backstorm in Washington the last 10 years. Does Ovechkin production still stay the same for all these years or will it decrease?

I respect your opinion. But it will nice if you can provide some solid evidences as well. Sure 50 goals looks more impressive and sexy on paper but during a season if one player had 50 G 30 A 80 Points and another player had 30 G 50 A 80 P. How is that different during the season. There still 80 goals being scored. And unassisted goal are not thst common. If you look at Ovechkin scoring log there no more than a few a season. Can you prove that the first stat is more valuable and win more games? If not it's a pointless argument.

I know Ovechkin is a better player than Bure but to say he has nothing on Ovechkin is ridiculous. Bure gpg is up to age 32. Ovechkin 31 right now. I think it's fair to say Ovechkin gpg don't go up at his age. So Bure will finish higher gpg at the same age as Ovechkin. Ovechkin has Backstorm and green. Bure has nobody. I think it's fair to say Bure is a better goal scorer but it's close. Bure is a better playoff performer than Ovechkin as well.

Wash win president 3 or 4 times the last 10 years. Ovechkin has the team for him to produce more but he doesn't.

Pits 2009 the lineup wasn't that deep. The first 3 lines wingers were 40 yr Guerin Kuntz Fentenko Talbot Cooke Kennedy Only 1 legit top 6 guy and that's it. Malkin ended with 36 points. Don't blame the team.


So Malkin health is another reason why Ovechkin is better? So you couldn't think of anything thats on the ice related aside from goal scoring to prove than Ovechkin is better so you use health?

 

[Treb]

he already has a far superior playoff history to any other russian

anything he does now just puts his legacy out of reach for any future russian players

It's a shame player like Kharlamov (especially him), Firsov, Bobrov, Mikhailov. P. Petrov, Mozyakhin, Zaripov didn't have a career in NA, the competition might be a lot closer.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

It's a shame player like Kharlamov (especially him), Firsov, Bobrov, Mikhailov. P. Petrov, Mozyakhin, Zaripov didn't have a career in NA, the competition might be a lot closer.

if malkin had better health this wouldn't even be a debate

 

[Zen Arcade]

I don't think any of Ovechkin, Malkin or Fedorov is definitively ahead of the other two. Fedorov had an amazing peak, but it was relatively short.

I feel that Mogilny and Bure are a tier below those three, but that's just my opinion.

 

[MaxV]

if malkin had better health this wouldn't even be a debate

It might be a close debate if both Malkin and Bure had better health.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

So simple question pretend if there no Backstorm in Washington the last 10 years. Does Ovechkin production still stay the same for all these years or will it decrease?

I respect your opinion. But it will nice if you can provide some solid evidences as well. Sure 50 goals looks more impressive and sexy on paper but during a season if one player had 50 G 30 A 80 Points and another player had 30 G 50 A 80 P. How is that different during the season. There still 80 goals being scored. And unassisted goal are not thst common. If you look at Ovechkin scoring log there no more than a few a season. Can you prove that the first stat is more valuable and win more games? If not it's a pointless argument.

I know Ovechkin is a better player than Bure but to say he has nothing on Ovechkin is ridiculous. Bure gpg is up to age 32. Ovechkin 31 right now. I think it's fair to say Ovechkin gpg don't go up at his age. So Bure will finish higher gpg at the same age as Ovechkin. Ovechkin has Backstorm and green. Bure has nobody. I think it's fair to say Bure is a better goal scorer but it's close. Bure is a better playoff performer than Ovechkin as well.

Wash win president 3 or 4 times the last 10 years. Ovechkin has the team for him to produce more but he doesn't.

Pits 2009 the lineup wasn't that deep. The first 3 lines wingers were 40 yr Guerin Kuntz Fentenko Talbot Cooke Kennedy Only 1 legit top 6 guy and that's it. Malkin ended with 36 points. Don't blame the team.


So Malkin health is another reason why Ovechkin is better? So you couldn't think of anything thats on the ice related aside from goal scoring to prove than Ovechkin is better so you use health?

Depends who replaces Backstrom. He played the first year with Jeff Halpern as his center. Second year, it was some combination of Kris Beech, Brooks Laich and some other crappy players. Third year, it's Viktor Kozlov, Michael Nylander and Nicklas Backstrom. It's only in 2009 that Backstrom locked up the #1C spot.

So yeah, it depends who replaces Backstrom. Early on in his career, it obviously didn't matter who was his center.

As for assists, I don't value them as much as goals for the following reason. Let's look at Ovechkin and Backstrom. Ovechkin had 36 assists last year, and Backstrom had 63. Wow, they assisted on 99 goals! Wrong. Some of these assists refer to the same goals scored by Oshie or whoever was on the ice with them. Assists being equal to goals is only true for primary assists. There would be almost no difference between the two if they only counted one assist (except in the rare case of an unassisted goal). 50G 30A is a better stat line than the more common 30G 50A. Ovechkin has had a 32G 53A season in 2011, and it was easily worse than the 53G 28A season he had in 2015.

Bure's GPG is higher at the age of 32, but that's also playing 220 fewer games. Bure was 21 in his rookie year, Ovechkin was 20. Let's not forget that the first few years of Bure's career were in a high scoring era.

Yes, the 2009 Penguins were weak on the wings but had the best center depth ever seen post lockout. Crosby-Malkin-J.Staal was an insane center depth at the time. Hell, 10 years later it would still be insane. Great centers like Crosby, Malkin, Tavares , Datsyuk, Toews, Zetterberg can get by with crappy wingers, because they carry the play. It's harder to be dominant as a winger when you have a crappy center, which is why Ovechkin's first 3-4 years were super impressive.

Goalscoring by itself is enough of an argument, health is just icing on the cake

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Evgeni Malkin is 100000% the best Russian player to ever play the game, and his career is only halfway done.

This is coming from a Devils fan that has loved Ilya Kovalchuk, has a place in his heart for Mogilny and what he did for the Devils franchise, has seen Ovechkin at his best, seen what Federov has done and can do, seen Pavel Bure dominate hockey games, and knows about the 70s and 80s Russians.

Malkin is the best. No question. Pittsburgh still could have won cups without Crosby.

 

[Atas2000]

Evgeni Malkin is 100000% the best Russian player to ever play the game, and his career is only halfway done.

This is coming from a Devils fan that has loved Ilya Kovalchuk, has a place in his heart for Mogilny and what he did for the Devils franchise, has seen Ovechkin at his best, seen what Federov has done and can do, seen Pavel Bure dominate hockey games, and knows about the 70s and 80s Russians.

Malkin is the best. No question. Pittsburgh still could have won cups without Crosby.

Funny hype. Not.even.close.

 

[LaP]

Bure's GPG is higher at the age of 32, but that's also playing 220 fewer games. Bure was 21 in his rookie year, Ovechkin was 20. Let's not forget that the first few years of Bure's career were in a high scoring era.

Bure scored 58 and 59 goals in the dead puck era playing for a very crappy Florida team.

In 2000-2001 Bure did 59G and 92 points. The 2nd best player on his team had 37 points.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Since you guys really are enjoying my Sid thread, let's drop this one to the mix also....

3 Stanley Cups
1 Conn Smythe (though on these boards, guys think he got jobbed this year & last)
Calder Trophy
1 Hart Trophy
1 Ted Lindsey

I can't wait for the Ovechkin & Federov fan boys to start jumping all over this...but the truth is there, Malkin is far & away the best Russian NHLer of all time...

So ignoring the team awards, Malkin has four individual awards. Let's compare that to Ovechkin:

1 Calder
1 Art Ross
6 Richard
3 Hart
3 Lester Pearson/Ted Lindsay

Are you serious? lol. I'm not a particularly big fan of either player, but if you look at awards and peak performance, it's obviously Ovechkin.

 

[Laineux]

As for assists, I don't value them as much as goals for the following reason. Let's look at Ovechkin and Backstrom. Ovechkin had 36 assists last year, and Backstrom had 63. Wow, they assisted on 99 goals! Wrong. Some of these assists refer to the same goals scored by Oshie or whoever was on the ice with them. Assists being equal to goals is only true for primary assists. There would be almost no difference between the two if they only counted one assist (except in the rare case of an unassisted goal). 50G 30A is a better stat line than the more common 30G 50A. Ovechkin has had a 32G 53A season in 2011, and it was easily worse than the 53G 28A season he had in 2015.

Actually most goals having multiple assists decreases the value of goalscoring. The more assists a goal requires the more playmaking a goal happening requires and the smaller part the goal scorer plays in the goal happening. Not in relation to an assist but in relation to the generation of the goal mind you.

Bäckström assisted 63 separate goals and Ovechkin assisted 36 separate goals. You might claim that three 30 goal scorers will make a better line than three 30 assist players, which may be true, but three 30 goal scorers in the same line doesn't exist without some ridiculously high level playmaking which will be displayed on their point totals. Or if not, they will have benefitted from some ridiculous playmaking from their back end ala Karlsson. Or most likely if you put three 30 goal scorers in the same line they won't all score anywhere near 30 goals as some of them take the playmaker role.

Point being, scoring a goal =/= generating a goal. Goalscoring is more valuable, but not to a massive degree. Every assist from a single player had a part in creating a separate goal.

 

[Skobel24]

I'd still take Fedorov over him.

 

[Regal]

So simple question pretend if there no Backstorm in Washington the last 10 years. Does Ovechkin production still stay the same for all these years or will it decrease?

I respect your opinion. But it will nice if you can provide some solid evidences as well. Sure 50 goals looks more impressive and sexy on paper but during a season if one player had 50 G 30 A 80 Points and another player had 30 G 50 A 80 P. How is that different during the season. There still 80 goals being scored. And unassisted goal are not thst common. If you look at Ovechkin scoring log there no more than a few a season. Can you prove that the first stat is more valuable and win more games? If not it's a pointless argument.

I know Ovechkin is a better player than Bure but to say he has nothing on Ovechkin is ridiculous. Bure gpg is up to age 32. Ovechkin 31 right now. I think it's fair to say Ovechkin gpg don't go up at his age. So Bure will finish higher gpg at the same age as Ovechkin. Ovechkin has Backstorm and green. Bure has nobody. I think it's fair to say Bure is a better goal scorer but it's close. Bure is a better playoff performer than Ovechkin as well.

Wash win president 3 or 4 times the last 10 years. Ovechkin has the team for him to produce more but he doesn't.

Pits 2009 the lineup wasn't that deep. The first 3 lines wingers were 40 yr Guerin Kuntz Fentenko Talbot Cooke Kennedy Only 1 legit top 6 guy and that's it. Malkin ended with 36 points. Don't blame the team.


So Malkin health is another reason why Ovechkin is better? So you couldn't think of anything thats on the ice related aside from goal scoring to prove than Ovechkin is better so you use health?

Backstrom has helped Ovechkin since he re-invented his game in '12, but before that it makes no sense to think he had a significant impact on Ovechkin given the disparity in their scoring and the way Ovechkin played. As Easy for Kuzy said, Ovechkin carried the puck a lot more and wasn't dependent on a passer to get him the puck in scoring position. His increase in even strength scoring can easily be explained by A) being a better player from 22-24 than 20-21 which makes sense and B) getting more even strength ice time, which he did as PP time went down after the first two seasons.

 

[Canucks1096]

Depends who replaces Backstrom. He played the first year with Jeff Halpern as his center. Second year, it was some combination of Kris Beech, Brooks Laich and some other crappy players. Third year, it's Viktor Kozlov, Michael Nylander and Nicklas Backstrom. It's only in 2009 that Backstrom locked up the #1C spot.

So yeah, it depends who replaces Backstrom. Early on in his career, it obviously didn't matter who was his center.

As for assists, I don't value them as much as goals for the following reason. Let's look at Ovechkin and Backstrom. Ovechkin had 36 assists last year, and Backstrom had 63. Wow, they assisted on 99 goals! Wrong. Some of these assists refer to the same goals scored by Oshie or whoever was on the ice with them. Assists being equal to goals is only true for primary assists. There would be almost no difference between the two if they only counted one assist (except in the rare case of an unassisted goal). 50G 30A is a better stat line than the more common 30G 50A. Ovechkin has had a 32G 53A season in 2011, and it was easily worse than the 53G 28A season he had in 2015.

Bure's GPG is higher at the age of 32, but that's also playing 220 fewer games. Bure was 21 in his rookie year, Ovechkin was 20. Let's not forget that the first few years of Bure's career were in a high scoring era.

Yes, the 2009 Penguins were weak on the wings but had the best center depth ever seen post lockout. Crosby-Malkin-J.Staal was an insane center depth at the time. Hell, 10 years later it would still be insane. Great centers like Crosby, Malkin, Tavares , Datsyuk, Toews, Zetterberg can get by with crappy wingers, because they carry the play. It's harder to be dominant as a winger when you have a crappy center, which is why Ovechkin's first 3-4 years were super impressive.

Goalscoring by itself is enough of an argument, health is just icing on the cake

Bure started his career at age 20. Bure first season 1991/1992. Birthday March 31, 1971. So he played around 5 games at 21 in his first season.

Bure even strength goal a lot higher. Bure 27% of his goal on the pp. Ovrchkin 38 % of his goal on the pp. Sure you don't think Backstorm made a difference up to 2010. But he made a difference after 2010. Also pp was lot less pp the last 5 season vs first 2006 and 2007 seasons. Oveckin still score a lot of pp goals in a lot less pps. I think you need to give some credit to backstorm for that.

Playing 220 less game work in the favor of Ovechkin actually. Bure gpg increase when he plays a full season

Full season

GP 82 goals 59
GP 74 goals 58
GP 82 goals 51
GP 83 GP 60 goals
GP 76 GP 60 goals

Not full season

GP 65 goals 34
GP 44 goals 20
GP 63 goals 23
GP 69 goals 34
GP 39 goals 19

So if Bure played more full season it's fair to say his gpg would of been higher.

Having Backstorm on the pp and after 2010 vs Bure played a few years in high acoring era cancel each other out. There more argument towards Bure for being better goal scorer.

Playoff you didn't give your argument so I am assuming Bure better is a playoff performer.


Back to Malkim vs Ovechkin. Based on user Laineux argument on your explanation on goals. You don't really have strong evidences to suggest goals are worth a lot more than assist. Other than your personal opinion. Sure I respect you thinking Ovechkin is better than Malkin however there no strong argument on your side. The goal scoring in the regular season for Ovechkin makes for Malkin playoffs is ridiculous. Regardless of center carrying the play more. Ovrchkin had good enough team for him to produce more in the playoffs. Washington is president trophy winner. That's not good enough team for a ovechkin to produce more?

Ovechkin not needing Backstrom in his first 4 or 5 season. I do see your point now

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Bure started his career at age 20. Bure first season 1991/1992. Birthday March 31, 1971. So he played around 5 games at 21 in his first season.

Bure even strength goal a lot higher. Bure 27% of his goal on the pp. Ovrchkin 38 % of his goal on the pp. Sure you don't think Backstorm made a difference up to 2010. But he made a difference after 2010. Also pp was lot less pp the last 5 season vs first 2006 and 2007 seasons. Oveckin still score a lot of pp goals in a lot less pps. I think you need to give some credit to backstorm for that.

Playing 220 less game work in the favor of Ovechkin actually. Bure gpg increase when he plays a full season

Full season

GP 82 goals 59
GP 74 goals 58
GP 82 goals 51
GP 83 GP 60 goals
GP 76 GP 60 goals

Not full season

GP 65 goals 34
GP 44 goals 20
GP 63 goals 23
GP 69 goals 34
GP 39 goals 19

So if Bure played more full season it's fair to say his gpg would of been higher.

Having Backstorm on the pp and after 2010 vs Bure played a few years in high acoring era cancel each other out. There more argument towards Bure for being better goal scorer.

Playoff you didn't give your argument so I am assuming Bure better is a playoff performer.


Back to Malkim vs Ovechkin. Based on user Laineux argument on your explanation on goals. You don't really have strong evidences to suggest goals are worth a lot more than assist. Other than your personal opinion. Sure I respect you thinking Ovechkin is better than Malkin however there no strong argument on your side. The goal scoring in the regular season for Ovechkin makes for Malkin playoffs is ridiculous. Regardless of center carrying the play more. Ovrchkin had good enough team for him to produce more in the playoffs. Washington is president trophy winner. That's not good enough team for a ovechkin to produce more?

Ovechkin not needing Backstrom in his first 4 or 5 season. I do see your point now

There is actually no argument for Bure.

There are actually more arguments for OV but you continue to ignore them and spin everything to make Malkin look better.

 

[Laineux]

Malkin and Ovechkin are similar at their best. You can make arguments for both.

Ovechkin has a clearly better regular season resume with a ridiculous trophy case.

Malkin has a clearly better playoff resume with multiple Cups and one of the best Conn Smythes of all time.

You can really argue for either player at this point IMO.

 

[Canucks1096]

There is actually no argument for Bure.

There are actually more arguments for OV but you continue to ignore them and spin everything to make Malkin look better.

Easy for Kuzy said Ovechkin goal scoring in the regular season make up the difference in Malkin playoffs. That what it all comes down to for Easy for Kuzy for Malkin. That point he doesn't have a strong argument. I didn't say he didn't have strong arguments for his other points.

Bure has higher gpg than Ovechkin at the same age. Never played with an elite center or elite defensmen offensive defensmen Like Backstorn and Green. More even strength goals. Those are not strong arguments for Bure being a better goal scorer?

For the record you didn't answer one of my question from a few weeks ago. The awards/ast is the main difference for you on why Ovechkin is better than Malkin foe you. So pretend we are in 2016. Ovechkin has 25 awards/ast and Crosby has 15. 10 more than Crosby is significant amount as well. But I am pretty sure you don't think Crosby is better than Ovechkin. Which proves that your award counting is a weak argument.

 

[Canucks1096]

Malkin and Ovechkin are similar at their best. You can make arguments for both.

Ovechkin has a clearly better regular season resume with a ridiculous trophy case.

Malkin has a clearly better playoff resume with multiple Cups and one of the best Conn Smythes of all time.

You can really argue for either player at this point IMO.

True but the problem that I have is that there strong arguments for Malkin being on par with Ovechkin in the regular season as well. Anytime When a player has high ppg than someone. There is an argument.

But playoffs there is no strong argument on Ovechkin as being better.

So therefore Malkin is better.

 

[Human]

So ignoring the team awards, Malkin has four individual awards. Let's compare that to Ovechkin:

1 Calder
1 Art Ross
6 Richard
3 Hart
3 Lester Pearson/Ted Lindsay

Are you serious? lol. I'm not a particularly big fan of either player, but if you look at awards and peak performance, it's obviously Ovechkin.

Malkin has six. Missing on that list are his two Rosses...

Also pretty sure Ovechkin has two Lindsays.

 

[Oddbob]

Evgeni Malkin is 100000% the best Russian player to ever play the game, and his career is only halfway done.

This is coming from a Devils fan that has loved Ilya Kovalchuk, has a place in his heart for Mogilny and what he did for the Devils franchise, has seen Ovechkin at his best, seen what Fedorov has done and can do, seen Pavel Bure dominate hockey games, and knows about the 70s and 80s Russians.

Malkin is the best. No question. Pittsburgh still could have won cups without Crosby.

HAHAHA, the Penguins would not have any of the 09, 16, and 17 Cups without Crosby. In fact, without Crosby, there very well may be no Penguins in the NHL today. They were on the brink of leaving the league, then won the Draft Lottery in '05 to get him, and that changed everything for them.

Not saying Malkin isn't a great player, but Crosby, (not a fan of) is the engine of the Penguins.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Easy for Kuzy said Ovechkin goal scoring in the regular season make up the difference in Malkin playoffs. That what it all comes down to for Easy for Kuzy for Malkin. That point he doesn't have a strong argument. I didn't say he didn't have strong arguments for his other points.

Bure has higher gpg than Ovechkin at the same age. Never played with an elite center or elite defensmen offensive defensmen Like Backstorn and Green. More even strength goals. Those are not strong arguments for Bure being a better goal scorer?

For the record you didn't answer one of my question from a few weeks ago. The awards/ast is the main difference for you on why Ovechkin is better than Malkin foe you. So pretend we are in 2016. Ovechkin has 25 awards/ast and Crosby has 15. 10 more than Crosby is significant amount as well. But I am pretty sure you don't think Crosby is better than Ovechkin. Which proves that your award counting is a weak argument.

The linemate argument is often flawed. Example, Kessel had his best seasons by far when he played with the garbage centres in Toronto and the team had no talent outside of him. A bit like Bure in Florida, right? Then, Kessel got traded to Pittsburgh. Everybody was saying that he would have by far the best seasons of his career stats wise, that he would be a challenger for the Rocket Richard and maybe even hit 50 goals with Crosby or Malkin. Didn't quite work out that way in the end.

Also, Bure had his best seasons pre-1994 lockout, that is in the high scoring early 90's. Bure didn't play his entire career in the DPE, unlike Ovechkin who played his entire career in the post lockout DPE (starting in 2007). Hard to compare players from different eras, but there is almost no reason to believe that Bure is a better player than Ovechkin. I mean, we're comparing their goalscoring numbers which are similar, but we're not even going into the rest of their games, where it largely favours Ovechkin.

Malkin has six. Missing on that list are his two Rosses...

Also pretty sure Ovechkin has two Lindsays.

Ovechkin has 3 straight Lindsays (2008, 2009 and 2010).