MAF

[Lust for Life]

I mean... he won the Vezina a couple of years ago... so that year?

 

[Ugene Magic]

If you don’t go by pure stat lines you can reshuffle these top all time lists forever. You could drop Roy and say he was on stacked teams, drop Brodeur since he benefited from the trap and dead puck era, move Hasek and Lundqvist up since they dragged pretty trash teams to the cup finals, move Jim Carey up for having one of the highest save pcts in the 80s

A lot of this. Team construction/system can certainly make or break a goalie.

 

[HandshakeLine]

something was weird about 2020-2021, but I can’t quite put my finger on exactly what that was…

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Muzz has those two rings because of a really stacked team whom kept the shots down.

That 2nd cup he only played 11 games, Fleury got them through the tougher matchups early on.

That 1 year outlier 2 cups in his rookie year is his whole legacy.

His whole legacy is putting up better numbers than Fleury in both playoff runs and making it possible for Fleury to call himself a 3-time Cup winner, all in 1 rookie season? Cool!

 

[SEALBound]

I'm sad he never got his goal or his fight.

 

[SomeDude]

I'm sad he never got his goal or his fight.

He should sign a 1 game contract next year and pull a Brad Tolliver

 

[edog37]

Muzz has those two rings because of a really stacked team whom kept the shots down.

That 2nd cup he only played 11 games, Fleury got them through the tougher matchups early on.

That 1 year outlier 2 cups in his rookie year is his whole legacy.

And Flopper’s is a Lidstrom shot away from going 0-3 in the Final as a starter.

 

[SEALBound]

He should sign a 1 game contract next year and pull a Brad Tolliver

I would watch an hockey-based action movie starting MAF.

 

[Ugene Magic]

And Flopper’s is a Lidstrom shot away from going 0-3 in the Final as a starter.

That only ties the game.

 

[Turin]

Shame on ya'll for making me post this so late in the thread

 

[edog37]

That only ties the game.

He would’ve folded in OT, just like he usually did.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

MAF was the victim of some poor goalie coach hires. When they tried to change his game, it screwed him up big time. It was the Mike Bales hire that brought him back to his old self. Him losing his job to Vokoun is much more of an indictment on who they brought in to change him, than it is on MAF.
I agree that he probably isn’t top 5 all time (mostly because of those few years), but to say he isn’t top 5 of his era is insanity. Most people here just are much harder on him because that lull in his game because of coaching, probably cost us a Cup or 2.

 

[plaidchuck]

Maybe I’m less hard on him because I think the team culture was so rotten under Bylsma that they wouldve lost against the Kings and Hawks at the time anyways.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He would’ve folded in OT, just like he usually did.

Luckily, he ruined all of his detractor's time....

 

[HandshakeLine]

MAF was the victim of some poor goalie coach hires. When they tried to change his game, it screwed him up big time. It was the Mike Bales hire that brought him back to his old self. Him losing his job to Vokoun is much more of an indictment on who they brought in to change him, than it is on MAF.
I agree that he probably isn’t top 5 all time (mostly because of those few years), but to say he isn’t top 5 of his era is insanity. Most people here just are much harder on him because that lull in his game because of coaching, probably cost us a Cup or 2.

Top 5 of his era is a much better and fairer discussion, because then you can discuss things like team structure and scoring and coaching, as well as longevity and such. I don’t agree that he’s top 5 if his era, but I think there’s a good argument for him there to be made.

Stuff like “top 5 of all time” is pretty cringe though. That’s like the kids now who are going to sat AO > Gretzky.

 

[ColePens]

There are so many tremendous topics where multiple things can be true, but the internet has really ruined good conversation in favor of NO.. I AM RIGHT!

Multiple things can be true:
- Amazing career and judging by NHL standards, he's an easy shoe-in for HOF
- He struggled in the playoffs at times and was not a clutch goalie
- Those struggles still do not take away the work he did in 09 and 17. Or even 2008/20whatever w/ Vegas to get to the Finals and lose.

From all accounts he was a great locker room guy and a great charitable man. At one point, he and Niemi had the worst save percentage in the new era playoffs. However he made it work in 09 and parts of 17.


This thread could be so awesome debating the good and bad of MAF, but instead we have to go into definitive statements right from the jump. Why not analyze some stuff and then form an opinion even if you agree/disagree with others?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

MAF was the victim of some poor goalie coach hires. When they tried to change his game, it screwed him up big time. It was the Mike Bales hire that brought him back to his old self. Him losing his job to Vokoun is much more of an indictment on who they brought in to change him, than it is on MAF.
I agree that he probably isn’t top 5 all time (mostly because of those few years), but to say he isn’t top 5 of his era is insanity. Most people here just are much harder on him because that lull in his game because of coaching, probably cost us a Cup or 2.

I've always said that it's no coincidence the MAF's worst years were all when DB was the head coach. Once DF was fired, he bounced back and won two more Cups, got Vegas to the SCF and won the Vezina.

 

[SomeDude]

There are so many tremendous topics where multiple things can be true, but the internet has really ruined good conversation in favor of NO.. I AM RIGHT!

Multiple things can be true:
- Amazing career and judging by NHL standards, he's an easy shoe-in for HOF
- He struggled in the playoffs at times and was not a clutch goalie
- Those struggles still do not take away the work he did in 09 and 17. Or even 2008/20whatever w/ Vegas to get to the Finals and lose.

From all accounts he was a great locker room guy and a great charitable man. At one point, he and Niemi had the worst save percentage in the new era playoffs. However he made it work in 09 and parts of 17.


This thread could be so awesome debating the good and bad of MAF, but instead we have to go into definitive statements right from the jump. Why not analyze some stuff and then form an opinion even if you agree/disagree with others?

You want to have a nuanced conversation instead of taking a hard line stance and dying on that hill no matter what? That’s not how we do things around here.

Fleury had some bad playoff runs, some average ones, and some good ones. Some here hyper focus on the bad and refuse to acknowledge the good.

He is the Ron Francis of goalies to me. Incredible longevity, only seemed to get better with age, and respected around the league on and off the ice.

 

[Fogel]

Those years of playoff flops were so aggravating, so many what ifs we had average goaltending. His highs were so high, but those lows were so so low.

 

[Sorry]

Game 5 of the 2008 finals. Best goalie performance ever.