MacKinnon has 150 points in his last 82 games

[Video Nasty]

You can remove McDavid out of every season of his career and Mackinnon would still have not won an Art Ross.

Or any extra Harts. The two other times he finished second, it was to Hall and Drasaitl.

 

[Regal]

You can remove McDavid out of every season of his career and Mackinnon would still have not won an Art Ross. Missing games has always been extremely detrimental to winning the scoring title, McDavid or no McDavid. Missing more than 5 games is almost always a death sentence, unless the player that misses those 5 games is miles ahead of the pack that year. I don't say this as a diss on Mackinnon, but injuries have hurt him more than any external factors when it comes to scoring title and Harts.

He’d pretty much need both full health and no McDavid to significantly change anything as well, and even then only 17-18 seems like a sure thing

 

[daver]

Crosby's Top 10 Point finishes: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 6, 10

MacKinnon's Top 10 Point finishes: 2, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8


REMOVE DUPLICATES:

Crosby: 1,1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 6, 10

MacKinnon: 5, 5, 8, 8



Crosby's Top 10 PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1*, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 * 22 games

MacKinnon's Top 10 PPG finishes: 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10


REMOVE DUPLICATES:

Crosby: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 6

MacKinnon: 7, 10


Noone should look at those numbers and wonder if there is anything else other than a clearly superior resume that needs deeper digging.

crosby is clearly the better and more accomplished player. nate was a late bloomer while crosby hit right away. nate also had to compete again prime mcdavid. you would have to drop most of crosby's finishes down a spot if he had prime mcdavid as well.

If Crosby and McDavid started playing at the same time, best guess has Crosby's numbers looking this:

Crosby's Top 10 Point finishes: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 10

Crosby's Top 10 PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1*, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 7 * 22 games

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

As a fan of a rival team in Colorado’s division, there are no two players who scare me as much when they’re on the ice together than Mackinnon and Makar.
What was special about the Jets-Avalanche game three nights ago is that it featured the best forward in the world, the best defenseman in the world, and the best goalie in the world. On that night, the best goalie won.

Georgiev didn't get the W.

 

[crowfish]

Looking to pass 153 n establish himself as the best peak of his generation.

Nope. Not unless his 153+ includes leading the league in goals & assists and having a 40-point lead on the 2nd highest non-teammate scorer

 

[avsfan2189]

hmmm

https://x.com/i/web/status/1855662540644130839

 

[daver]

hmmm

https://x.com/i/web/status/1855662540644130839

Bit too early for that but Mac is inching towards matching McDavid since 22/23:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Only 18 points behind and as many goals.

What does this mean for the narrative around McDavid's 22/23 season, his Rocket win, and his 100 assist season?

 

[MarchessaultCantRead]

Nope. Not unless his 153+ includes leading the league in goals & assists and having a 40-point lead on the 2nd highest non-teammate scorer

Does he also have to wear #97?!

MacKinnon is the better player in the playoffs, which is the only thing that matters for players of that caliber.

 

[daver]

Does he also have to wear #97?!

MacKinnon is the better player in the playoffs, which is the only thing that matters for players of that caliber.

How so?

 

[Regal]

Nope. Not unless his 153+ includes leading the league in goals & assists and having a 40-point lead on the 2nd highest non-teammate scorer

It’s only been 2 years. Unless the difference in scoring between the seasons actually changes dramatically, what a couple of other players do holds no bearing on MacKinnon’s season. If McDavid had that exact same season as ‘22 last year, where he wouldn’t have been first in goals or assists and only had a 9 point lead in points, it would still have been just as good, because he still would have had a 40+ point lead on the 5th place scorer and a 50+ point lead on the 10th place scorer, and so forth.

Now, if he were to score 154 this year it doesn’t mean it’s better either, as teammates, overall play, primary points, empty nets, etc all factor in. But he doesn’t need to lead in both goals and assists or have a bigger lead over second to be better.

 

[TheStatican]

Nope. Not unless his 153+ includes leading the league in goals & assists and having a 40-point lead on the 2nd highest non-teammate splayers

Except McDavid was not actually '40 points better' than the next nearest non-teammate that season. Mac himself would have scored about 130 points in '23 if not for the random variance of suffering an injury.

It’s only been 2 years. Unless the difference in scoring between the seasons actually changes dramatically, what a couple of other players do holds no bearing on MacKinnon’s season. If McDavid had that exact same season as ‘22 last year, where he wouldn’t have been first in goals or assists and only had a 9 point lead in points, it would still have been just as good, because he still would have had a 40+ point lead on the 5th place scorer and a 50+ point lead on the 10th place scorer, and so forth.

Now, if he were to score 154 this year it doesn’t mean it’s better either, as teammates, overall play, primary points, empty nets, etc all factor in. But he doesn’t need to lead in both goals and assists or have a bigger lead over second to be better.

Agreed. It’s ridiculous to suggest that his season wouldn’t be as good based solely on the random variance of the raw point total production of one or two players. The factors you listed are the ones that are of much greater importance in a potential future comparison between the two.

 

[crowfish]

Except McDavid was not actually '40 points better' than the next nearest non-teammate that season. Mac himself would have scored about 130 points in '23 if not for the random variance of suffering an injury.


Agreed. It’s ridiculous to suggest that his season wouldn’t be as good based solely on the random variance of the raw point total production of one or two players. The factors you listed are the ones that are of much greater importance in a potential future comparison between the two.

The gap between 1st and 2nd in points is 100% relevant for comparing who had the better seasons. Even if you give MacKinnon 130 that year, that is still a 23 point lead. If MacKinnon gets 155 this year with Kucherov, McDavid & Kaprizov all with 140+, that means his season was not as dominant as McDavids 2022.

Leading the league in both the primary stat categories is also not trivial.

Want to know how hard it is to lead the league in goals & assists in the same year? MacKinnon has never led the league in goals or assists in ANY year of his career, let alone the same season. Sidney Crosby has led the league in assists once & goals once in his entire 19-year career. It is a big deal that McDavid did that in 2022 and absolutely factors in when comparing the best seasons from this era.

 

[crowfish]

Does he also have to wear #97?!

MacKinnon is the better player in the playoffs, which is the only thing that matters for players of that caliber.

Here is the list of players who are "better in the playoffs" than Connor McDavid:

-Gretzky
-Lemieux

End of list. Thanks for coming out.

 

[daver]

The gap between 1st and 2nd in points is 100% relevant for comparing who had the better seasons. Even if you give MacKinnon 130 that year, that is still a 23 point lead. If MacKinnon gets 155 this year with Kucherov, McDavid & Kaprizov all with 140+, that means his season was not as dominant as McDavids 2022.

So where do you rate Kucherov's 4 point win last year? Behind every other Art Ross winner who won by 5 points or more?

Leading the league in both the primary stat categories is also not trivial.

That's exactly what it was. A piece of trivia. It adds nothing to the relative strength of his season. The irony is that some want to boost McDavid's season last year with a "100 Assist" narrative. Same with the playoffs.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Here is the list of players who are "better in the playoffs" than Connor McDavid:

-Gretzky
-Lemieux

End of list. Thanks for coming out.

MacKinnon is better at having peak Makar on his team than McDavid.

It's been crucial to playoff success.

 

[Muffin]

Here is the list of players who are "better in the playoffs" than Connor McDavid:

-Gretzky
-Lemieux

End of list. Thanks for coming out.

Unless it’s the cup clinching game then he’s invisible. MacKinnon in game 6 to win the cup? 1g1a in a 2-1 win

 

[crowfish]

So where do you rate Kucherov's 4 point win last year? Behind every other Art Ross winner who won by 5 points or more?



That's exactly what it was. A piece of trivia. It adds nothing to the relative strength of his season.

Kucherovs 4 point win last year I rank as the 3rd best season in the salary cap era, or 2nd best if you don't count 2020. The margin that you lead by is a factor, it is obviously not the only or most important factor... Did I imply that it was?

"Piece of trivia"

Yes, McDavid being the only player besides Gretzky, Lemieux & Gordie Howe to lead the league in goals/assists is a random piece of trivia. Certainly not a relevant factor at all for comparing how someone's season was. My mistake

Want some more trivia? Gretzky had more 200 point seasons (4), than seasons where he led the league in goals & assists (3). Not a relevant factor tho

 

[daver]

Kucherovs 4 point win last year I rank as the 3rd best season in the salary cap era, or 2nd best if you don't count 2020. The margin that you lead by is a factor, it is obviously not the only or most important factor... Did I imply that it was?

Yes....

Nope. Not unless his 153+ includes leading the league in goals & assists and having a 40-point lead on the 2nd highest non-teammate scorer

You made it quite clear that the gap over 2nd is the only thing that matters.

 

[crowfish]

Yes....



You made it quite clear that the gap over 2nd is the only thing that matters.

Okay, now I understand. Reading comprehension is the problem.

You read my post literally as me claiming:

"Margin of leading the league is the MOST IMPORTANT factor for determining how good a season is"

Like what?? Do you seriously think that was the spirit of what my post was? Jeez man, this forum sometimes lol.

I was replying to someone who used one factor (total points) and said it would mean that MacKinnon had the best season of this era, I replied with context around McDavid's 2022 season that shows it is not so simple as counting points. That is what my post was. Don't try to strawman it with your stupid interpretation.

 

[crowfish]

Unless it’s the cup clinching game then he’s invisible. MacKinnon in game 6 to win the cup? 1g1a in a 2-1 win

I genuinely hope you are attempting to troll me rather than thinking that you're making a good point by citing a 1+1 game 6 performance lol

Here are MacKinnons playoff results as soon as he wasn't making $9million less than his cap value:

2022 - 1st round exit
2023 - 1st round exit

 

[Muffin]

I genuinely hope you are attempting to troll me rather than thinking that you're making a good point by citing a 1+1 game 6 performance lol

Here are MacKinnons playoff results as soon as he wasn't making $9million less than his cap value:

2022 - 1st round exit Stanley Cup Champion
2023 - 1st round exit

2024 - 2nd round

Fixed that for you

What has McDavid done? Second round exit the season before and they only made the 3rd round because of how bad his division was then proceeded to get wooped by MacKinnon in a sweep.

 

[crowfish]

2024 - 2nd round

Fixed that for you

What has McDavid done? Second round exit the season before and they only made the 3rd round because of how bad his division was then proceeded to get wooped by MacKinnon in a sweep.

I stand corrected. 2nd round in 2023. Great job Nate!

 

[EXTRAS]

Excited to see:

Lehkonen - Mackinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - mittlestadt - Landeskog
Drouin - Colton - ivan ivan
Kovalenko - wood - oconnor

Something like that could be a solid lineup.

 

[Muffin]

I stand corrected. 2nd round in 2023. Great job Nate!

We really going to use winning to compare the two? Because MacKinnon sure has won a lot more than McDavid in his life. McDavid has not won anything in his life other than on stacked team Canadas.

 

[crowfish]

What has McDavid done? Second round exit the season before and they only made the 3rd round because of how bad his division was then proceeded to get wooped by MacKinnon in a sweep.

Here is what McDavid has done in the playoffs. I threw in some MacKinnon comparables for the lols & some context.

3rd all-time pts/game

Only Gretzky & Lemieux produce more on a per-game basis.

Won the MVP on a losing team

MacKinnon didn't even win MVP on a WINNING team (let that sink in)

Led playoffs in scoring twice despite only reaching the finals once???

Sounds impossible but it's true. Crosby has led the playoffs in scoring once and he has reached the finals 4 times. MacKinnon finished 9 points behind McDavid in scoring during that year despite playing 4 more games.

Now I know none of that is as impressive as MacKinnon getting 1G + 1A in that clutch game 6 performance, but hey at least it's something.