Post-Game Talk: Machinehead vs Ice Cream Girl

[bbny]

Also, I'm not going to speak for anyone else but "I'd rather suck for 10 years and have a team that contends". I don't know if people that think like this are fans of the Knicks or Jets/Giants. I don't care about the Knicks and Jets but as a Giants fan the fact that last time the Giants were relevant I was 25 years old really pisses me off. Literally 1/6 of my life expectancy has been wasted on the Giants putting out a depressing product on the field. The two Super Bowls DO NOT make up for it. Frankly I had a much better time being a Rangers fan rather than a Giants fan since I started watching in 2000-2001. Yeah 2007 and 2011 were great. Two months don't make up for a dozen years of complete garbage. Maybe others think differently but f*** sucking for 10 years HOPING we can build a contender. Not something I'll ever sign up for.

I think they do. I’ve saved a lot of time from not watching noncompetitive Giants games after they were basically eliminated by week 5 every year, but those Super Bowl championship memories are so, so sweet. The Rangers do enough every year to keep false hope alive without ever achieving the overall goal, usually in shit eating fashion like mailing it in against a hated rival. Many years they are in the land of mediocrity, which is about the worst spot you can be if it’s not a temporary stop to greater things. We are and have been stuck here. Sports purgatory.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Why are we surprised the lotto bros (and the team at large) look the same in game 4 of 2023-24 as they did in the last game of 2022-23? We're already going back to the kid line? Moving them? How about just letting things play out and seeing what these lines can do over a couple months rather than a couple weeks?

Before last night, this team had the highest xGF/60 in the league and over 4 games they're shooting 5% with the 21st 5v5 sv%. Everybody relax. Even if Kakko and Laf continue to be mid asf, if they're the two RWs on two of the most territorially dominant lines in the NHL, each with above-grade finishing talent at the other F positions, who the hell cares?

This team was never going to be a finished product in game 4 lmao, they could get worse, sure, but I think it's more likely they'll be better.

seriously, we're two offsides removed from going into last night 3-0, curb stomping three straight bad teams before getting shelled by one. I don't think we need to stand on the ledge just yet, as much as I love when the boards are active so I have plenty to read on slow work days lol

I agree with this. Throw the Preds game out and move onto the next one.

We can't judge a team when it looked like everybody partied until 4am the night before. Even Lundqvist was too hung over to commentate. Also, they obviously didn't invite Cuylle, based on his play, and that is just rude.

The actual point of my post is to not make rash decision based on one obviously horrible game.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think they do. I’ve saved a lot of time from not watching noncompetitive Giants games after they were basically eliminated by week 5 every year, but those Super Bowl championship memories are so, so sweet. The Rangers do enough every year to keep false hope alive without ever achieving the overall goal, usually in shit eating fashion like mailing it in against a hated rival. Many years they are in the land of mediocrity, which is about the worst spot you can be if it’s not a temporary stop to greater things. We are and have been stuck here. Sports purgatory.

But that's absolutely depressing to me. I never experienced what others have here I guess. I was happy, read the newspapers and read a Giants message board. My life was not changed. But the mood the Giants put me in have in its own way.

 

[Chaels Arms]

I would 100% sign up for ten years of no playoffs to win a Stanley Cup right now. Without even hesitating. And yes, I lived through the Dark Ages for this team and yes they sucked but the euphoria of winning a Stanley Cup I can actually enjoy and experience as an adult would absolutely be worth ten years of no playoffs for me. I'd just find other stuff to focus on, watch more MMA and gaze down at my NYR Stanley Cup Champions 2023-2024 tattoo and shed tears of joy while I text pictures of it to my Flyers fan friend.

 

[CasusBelli]

But proper dynasties are unlikely. Plenty of teams have sucked and didn't become a dynasty or even particularly good. Plus, we have two top 2 picks and 4 top 10 picks and a whole bunch of first and second round picks. We rebuilt we just botched it. Do you want 5 more top 10 picks and blow all of those too?

Lotteries are crap shoots. Sometimes the scouts get it right. Sometimes they don’t. Happened to the Leafs and the Oilers for a while. Eventually it comes together.

I agree with your comment on the scarcity of dynasties in the cap era though.

 

[LokiDog]

To be clear, even if I'm preaching hope, I definitely feel what you're saying and tbh even i agree to an extent. It'd be nice to watch a dominant team for once, b/c even in our Presidents Trophy season, it really didn't feel like one.

Sometimes I don’t even care if they’re dominant, I just want them to be enjoyable to watch. Every night it’s like a dentist’s appointment. You go in cautiously optimistic and apprehensive and then you grimace through most of it hoping it doesn’t go awry.

I was massively jealous of Devils fans last playoffs. Sure they haven’t enjoyed the sustained “success” that we have in the last little bit, but their team is high flying and can skate with anyone and can challenge anyone. Buffalo has the longest playoff drought and has been through heartbreaks with ROR and Eichel and hasn’t proven anything yet with their new core, but damn that’s a team I would be excited to turn on every night. Toronto, Colorado and other loaded talent teams are fun. The Ducks and Coyotes haven’t been good but look fun and exciting. And the expectations are so low for them, it’s easier not to get frustrated, just watch the team figure out it’s talent/flaws and try to grow together. I’m very, very often jealous of that.

Hintz came back last night and immediately scored a nice goal and it’s just like… man, I want that to be my team every night. And it is just funny the way things work. Fox is undoubtedly a top 3 D in the league, but his competition in Makar, Heiskanen, Dahlin and even Quinn Hughes are all dynamic, speedy, slippery and of course we got the slow cerebral one. Dallas’ bad skaters are Pavelski and Robertson. Combined for 186 points last year. Ours are Laf and Kakko, massive disappointments, who combined for 79 points. Not even half. Like we just don’t get to have fun in Rongo town.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

BTW, the team that actually did suck for 10 years and got a generational player has sucked more than us this season.

 

[MrAlmost]

Instead of being reactionary like I wanted to be right after the game, I will instead focus on the positives.

Trouba is the best defensemen on the team right now.

Trocheck is the best player on the team.

Michael Peca's suit was very nice.

 

[Filip Chytil]

I've missed all the games so far, but sounds like I haven't missed much.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I've missed all the games so far, but sounds like I haven't missed much.

It was only one really bad game, you'd think they were all bad reading this thread.

 

[Filip Chytil]

It was only one really bad game, you'd think they were all bad reading this thread.

Yeah, I half-expected our record was 0-4 or 1-3

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Trouba is the best defensemen on the team right now.

Trocheck is the best player on the team.

You know what you're right this makes me feel great

 

[Machinehead]

Can we even rebuild? Doesn't everyone have NMC's?

That situation is a bit exaggerated. The only one we're glued to is Zibanejad. Kreider and Trouba aren't actually signed for that much longer.

 

[Machinehead]

Why are we surprised the lotto bros (and the team at large) look the same in game 4 of 2023-24 as they did in the last game of 2022-23? We're already going back to the kid line? Moving them? How about just letting things play out and seeing what these lines can do over a couple months rather than a couple weeks?

Before last night, this team had the highest xGF/60 in the league and over 4 games they're shooting 5% with the 21st 5v5 sv%. Everybody relax. Even if Kakko and Laf continue to be mid asf, if they're the two RWs on two of the most territorially dominant lines in the NHL, each with above-grade finishing talent at the other F positions, who the hell cares?

This team was never going to be a finished product in game 4 lmao, they could get worse, sure, but I think it's more likely they'll be better.

seriously, we're two offsides removed from going into last night 3-0, curb stomping three straight bad teams before getting shelled by one. I don't think we need to stand on the ledge just yet, as much as I love when the boards are active so I have plenty to read on slow work days lol

I'm all for letting it play out and I hate the Kid Line.

I've just kind of given up on them being any more than compliments.

 

[Machinehead]

Even Panarin only has two years after this one. The only contact that like, just started is Zibanejad.

Once those Kreider, Trouba, and Panarin deals draw to a close, that's when I could see this team being in trouble. Our best forwards will be in their mid-30's. None of the young forwards appear to be ushering in a new window.

You're not getting rid of anyone now, so play it out, but I would stop buying and start keeping draft picks in the cupboard.

 

[Profet]

Even Panarin only has two years after this one. The only contact that like, just started is Zibanejad.

Once those Kreider, Trouba, and Panarin deals draw to a close, that's when I could see this team being in trouble. Our best forwards will be in their mid-30's. None of the young forwards appear to be ushering in a new window.

You're not getting rid of anyone now, so play it out, but I would stop buying and start keeping draft picks in the cupboard.

Agreed, but you need to trade what you can. Especially when those assets have higher perceived value than actual value.

 

[duhmetreE]

Even Panarin only has two years after this one. The only contact that like, just started is Zibanejad.

Once those Kreider, Trouba, and Panarin deals draw to a close, that's when I could see this team being in trouble. Our best forwards will be in their mid-30's. None of the young forwards appear to be ushering in a new window.

You're not getting rid of anyone now, so play it out, but I would stop buying and start keeping draft picks in the cupboard.

Pettersson is intriguing.

If he doesn't want to stay in Vancouver... he gonna get paid though

 

[Fitzy]

Even Panarin only has two years after this one. The only contact that like, just started is Zibanejad.

Once those Kreider, Trouba, and Panarin deals draw to a close, that's when I could see this team being in trouble. Our best forwards will be in their mid-30's. None of the young forwards appear to be ushering in a new window.

You're not getting rid of anyone now, so play it out, but I would stop buying and start keeping draft picks in the cupboard.

You'd prefer they be able to rebuild the top half of the lineup but that'll be a time when the salary cap is booming and so even mediocre or aging UFAs are going to be getting really big deals in 3 years.

Simple answer I guess would be make sure we do a bang up job of drafting the next couple of seasons and keep an eye on undrafted talent.

 

[Leonardo87]

I'm all for letting it play out and I hate the Kid Line.

I've just kind of given up on them being any more than compliments.

The Kid line honeymoon is over. It’s only been four games, keep the kids stapled to the vets. After 20 or so games, if still crap, then don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Machinehead]

You'd prefer they be able to rebuild the top half of the lineup but that'll be a time when the salary cap is booming and so even mediocre or aging UFAs are going to be getting really big deals in 3 years.

Simple answer I guess would be make sure we do a bang up job of drafting the next couple of seasons and keep an eye on undrafted talent.

I'm anticipating that the cap boom isn't actually coming because it never actually does.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

That situation is a bit exaggerated. The only one we're glued to is Zibanejad. Kreider and Trouba aren't actually signed for that much longer.

Drury could probably move both Kreider and Trouba tomorrow if he wanted

 

[UnSandvich]

Drury could probably move both Kreider and Trouba tomorrow if he wanted

Assuming they waive of course, yeah you're not wrong

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm all for letting it play out and I hate the Kid Line.

I've just kind of given up on them being any more than compliments.

Yeah for me it just doesn't seem worth expecting them to 'pop', but if they can be positive pieces of a dominant team, I truly don't care anymore. Anyone still upset about them at this point is missing the forest for the trees at this point , jmho

 

[LokiDog]

Yeah for me it just doesn't seem worth expecting them to 'pop', but if they can be positive pieces of a dominant team, I truly don't care anymore. Anyone still upset about them at this point is missing the forest for the trees at this point , jmho

This is the closest perspective that isn’t my own “sell him before his value is zero” narrative.

On the one hand, looking at the returns on guys like Dach and Newhook, who didn’t have quite the stats Laf has had, nor quite the draft pedigree, I definitely feel like if you can grab another crack in the top 15 + a little something, you take that risk and try to replace Laf’s contributions elsewhere. I’m not entirely certain Laf and Vesey aren’t the same person, so I feel like it’s not too difficult of a short term fill.

At the same time, sure, that 10-15ish pick could either be great capital for us to improve at some point, or a contributor anywhere from 2-5 years from now, but if Laf on the third line is the best depth configuration to give us a cohesive lineup that actually comes and does it’s job each night, no… I won’t care that he never lives up to his pedigree.



Unfortunately, I do think Laf was very quickly exposed to and infected by the “one of us” boys’ club virus and I just don’t see him ever having the motor to be a net positive in a bottom six role. It’s not all raw numbers and stats and Laf just isn’t a guy who brings a single unique thing to the table. The league has gotten tougher in terms of the talent floor. If you’re not differentiating yourself in some way you’re living the Motte, signed after camp started, 1yr deal, 11 min per night life, fighting to stay in the league. Laf is the most basic, meat and potatoes player I can think of. If he doesn’t find whatever talent made him a 1OA and carve out a top six spot, I’m not sure he has a bottom six future. He doesn’t have the motor.

That said if Kakko and Laf are actually good enough even to just CONSISTENTLY make our third line a threat and give us a deeper attack, it could make us a formidable team… but it has to be consistent, and they’d better do it soon, while the other forwards who do big boy work still have juice in the tank.

Laf just truly doesn’t do it for me as a hockey player. I know we all want him and KK to succeed, but even amongst Lias and Krav, heck even McIlrath, there isn’t one I found it harder to believe in and get behind than ol’ red beard. I just really, truly think he sucks his own methane through a funnel every night. And giggles at himself.

 

[Slaydagnar]

Putting Kakko on a line with Kreider and Zibanejad and Laf with Chytil and Panarin was 100 percent the right move and a few more games of looking how they have and I think it'll be officially panic mode time.

Kakko looks like someone who spent the past three seasons so concerned with being safe and not making mistakes that he's forgotten how to contribute offensively.

Lafreniere makes one nice pass a game then disappears completely.

Bad, really bad.

This is going to be the season the Rangers marketing team transitions back to talking about rebuilding. The Letter 2.0 is coming.

You’re right. A new letter needs to come. A genuine rebuild