LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) V

[snipes]

I think it's a comment like this that people are taking issue with. On one hand, you're acting as though defining generational is very black and white - Laine can't be because the term is reserved for Gretzky/Lemieux. Then you make the comment above that suggests currently Ovie isn't (despite having more hardware than Crosby), but could become one based on career achievements. This is why the term is so goofy. You can't truly determine generational until a player's career is over. I would argue guys like Selanne, Jagr and Lidstrom were "generational" because it's extremely rare to see players with those types of careers who are still productive and dangerous into their late 30's, early 40's.

For me, I'd prefer to refer to the uniqueness of a prospect as "once in a decade." Laine's skill set is definitely once in a decade. The combination of size, skill, shot power and release is the best since Ovie.

I want him on the Oilers so bad. Between the playmaking ability of McDavid and the havoc a guy like Maroon can cause parking in front of the net, Laine could put up some nice numbers.

The thing with Ovi is he gives me uncertainty, but ultimately he gets pushed into that category is his goal scoring ability. His # of 50 goal seasons cannot be denied. We'll look back on his career and acknowledge that he was by far the greatest goal scorer of his era. And, I agree 'generational' is a slippery and difficult term to define.

It's one of those "you know it when you see it". Even though I can see how that is an unsatisfying answer.

I do agree Laine's shot and unique skillset we probably haven't seen since Ovi, maybe Stamkos.

Him and 97 would be insane together. Within a very short period they would emerge as the most dynamic pair in the NHL. I have no doubt about that, their skillets just match up so well.

 

[Marre]

To be honest, I find this generational stuff quite boring, and something best added to players name ten years after they retired. With prospects one should maybe only talk about extremely talented, rare skill sets and max hyped prospects and let the years show, how they will turn out in star/legend/generational standpoint.

With Laine I see a possibility (far from sure thing or even likely, but a possibility) that he could develop a superstar or even legend level player. He has that 'X-factor.' And that is exciting. And it is not bad at all, if he turns out to be just a very good scoring winger.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Hah, actually you might be right. Laine is so much bigger and plays differently to Kurri that I didn't even think to make that comparison.

I know McDavid doesn't have the same hockey brains Gretzky had, but he still thinks the game fast and on a high level. No matter who his "side kick" will be, that player needs to be thinking at the same frequency as McDavid. Kurri had a lot of great tools as a player and he was a world class talent. But the biggest reason (and one of the most underrated aspects of Kurri's game) Jari worked so well with Wayne was that he was able to think and process the game on Hall of Fame level. Obviously not as high hockey IQ as Gretzky, but notably high still.

In order for Laine and McDavid to work, they need to click. If Laine (or whoever ends up with McDavid) can't think the game on same level as McDavid, then their games will not be very well suited. Basically all the greats like to have the puck a lot and there is only one of them in the rink. If they don't click, they won't be able to play efficiently together. Obviously having two stars in the same line will be good. But it necessarily won't be magic. When Gretzky and Kurri were playing together, both guys carried the puck. But they were able to think so much alike, that it wasn't a deterrent for their game. It worked like a charm. And that's rare.

I'm really rooting for the Oilers to get #2 pick. I wan't to see Laine with McDavid so much. I'm not sure it will work, but man if it does. Wow...

I have every reason to believe they would work well together. Eberle was having an underwhelming season until McDavid returned. He'd go on to put up 14 goals and 25 points in 32 games with McDavid, but those who watched those games would tell you he could have done so much more. Both are RH shots that like to get open on the left circle in the offensive zone. Laine is a much better fit though because:

A) He can actually one-time a puck. The Oilers board started calling Eberle "the swiffer" (reference to a feather duster for the Finns who don't know), because no matter how clean the pass was from McDavid, Eberle would have to handle it first (ie: dust it off). So many good looks where Eberle's hesitation allowed a goalie to get over.

B) The power and accuracy of his shot is better than Eberle's.

C) He can win more board battles than Eberle. This could lead to more possession time in the attacking zone. There were many cycles that ended on Eberle's stick because of lack of strength/size.


I know its lofty expectations, but I think at worst Laine could duplicate Eberle's pace last year, in his rookie season - if he plays the entire year with McDavid and both stay healthy. That would be 35 goals.

 

[Plural]

Sounds good. One of the strengths on Laine's game is his ability to protect the puck. Yeah, I can definitely see why you think they would work well together.

Can't wait for the lottery to happen. What time is it?

 

[kelsier]

Haha. I see only three players in the whole league who can do that. 97, 87 and Mr. Showtime. There is absolutely no doubt that is McDavid generational or not. In finnish version of Hfboards I allready made my self clear. I'm pretty sure that 97 wins Art Ross next season. Sorry for off-topic.

Laine IS NOT generational. Good chance he will be franchise, but he is not generational prospect. He has generational shot, but that is where it ends.

I find it amusing how people can make definate statements regarding hockey players' careers. For all we know, McDavid could have a knee injury and lose a step or two or even worse. You need to be able to recognize the difference between generational prospect and generational player.

Laine has plenty of tools in the toolbox, to single out shooting is nothing but ignorance. If that was the only world class ability in his arsenal, we wouldn't be running 5th thread about the guy today.

 

[Stats01]

Hah, actually you might be right. Laine is so much bigger and plays differently to Kurri that I didn't even think to make that comparison.

I know McDavid doesn't have the same hockey brains Gretzky had, but he still thinks the game fast and on a high level. No matter who his "side kick" will be, that player needs to be thinking at the same frequency as McDavid. Kurri had a lot of great tools as a player and he was a world class talent. But the biggest reason (and one of the most underrated aspects of Kurri's game) Jari worked so well with Wayne was that he was able to think and process the game on Hall of Fame level. Obviously not as high hockey IQ as Gretzky, but notably high still.

In order for Laine and McDavid to work, they need to click. If Laine (or whoever ends up with McDavid) can't think the game on same level as McDavid, then their games will not be very well suited. Basically all the greats like to have the puck a lot and there is only one of them in the rink. If they don't click, they won't be able to play efficiently together. Obviously having two stars in the same line will be good. But it necessarily won't be magic. When Gretzky and Kurri were playing together, both guys carried the puck. But they were able to think so much alike, that it wasn't a deterrent for their game. It worked like a charm. And that's rare.

I'm really rooting for the Oilers to get #2 pick. I wan't to see Laine with McDavid so much. I'm not sure it will work, but man if it does. Wow...

The Oilers could easily win the lottery and take him #1 if need be. Laine and Matthews are so close that I don't think you could really go wrong with either one with the 1st overall pick. If the Leafs didn't need a #1 C so badly I actually would prefer them taking Laine #1. This kid is going to be a beast in a few years. Will easily score 40+ goals on an annual basis.

 

[Stats01]

The thing with Ovi is he gives me uncertainty, but ultimately he gets pushed into that category is his goal scoring ability. His # of 50 goal seasons cannot be denied. We'll look back on his career and acknowledge that he was by far the greatest goal scorer of his era. And, I agree 'generational' is a slippery and difficult term to define.

It's one of those "you know it when you see it". Even though I can see how that is an unsatisfying answer.

I do agree Laine's shot and unique skillset we probably haven't seen since Ovi, maybe Stamkos.

Him and 97 would be insane together. Within a very short period they would emerge as the most dynamic pair in the NHL. I have no doubt about that, their skillets just match up so well.

Laine reminds me more of Ovechkin than Stamkos just due to his size. Laine is so big, amazing he's only 17-18 years old. He's going to be around 6 ft 5 or 6 ft 6 by the time he fully matures...with his skill set, I'm not sure we have seen a player like him in a long time. It is almost hard to even imagine how good he is going to be in his prime when he's in his mid to late 20's. He's going to dominate games

 

[snipes]

Laine reminds me more of Ovechkin than Stamkos just due to his size. Laine is so big, amazing he's only 17-18 years old. He's going to be around 6 ft 5 or 6 ft 6 by the time he fully matures...with his skill set, I'm not sure we have seen a player like him in a long time.

He also hits hard when he throws his weight. He can lay the body when he wants to, just another positive part of his game to like.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Sounds good. One of the strengths on Laine's game is his ability to protect the puck. Yeah, I can definitely see why you think they would work well together.

Can't wait for the lottery to happen. What time is it?

I believe it's 2:00 am Finnish time. 7:00 pm EST.

 

[Plural]

I believe it's 2:00 am Finnish time. 7:00 pm EST.

Thanks. Looks like I won't be sleeping tonight. Isles v. Bolts starts at 10:00 pm my time. Then the draft lottery, followed by Pens v. Caps.

That sounds like a decent way to spend Saturday night.

 

[Marre]

I believe it's 2:00 am Finnish time. 7:00 pm EST.

NHL really knows how to schedule these draft things from Finnish perspective People who are interested enough to watch can have the experience twice. First watch during night and because being so drunk not to remember at the morning and have the same tension a new.

I wonder if Laine will be watching or if he again "has better things to do at night. He sleeps then."

 

[StPatrik]

And it was NHL lockout that year to BUT he did not manage to do what Laine did in this playoff. I hope he can carry Finland to GOLD in WC to, would that make him generational?

IF he would CARRY finland to WC Gold as an undrafted player he would be generational. May you explain to me what he would have to do to be generation if thats not enough?

You need to be Canadian to have a chance to be generational.

 

[snipes]

You need to be Canadian to have a chance to be generational.

Nope. Tretiak and Lidstrom are two examples of non-Canadian generational players.

It's just a rare term. It's not an insult for a guy to not be said to be generational. Laine is a superstar in the making, he'll step into an NHL lineup and be an immediate star.

 

[Plural]

Nope. Tretiak and Lidstrom are two examples of non-Canadian generational players.

Just for giggle, I try to list the NHL guys I would put under "generational" label.

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Beliveau
Richard
Shore
Bourque
Hasek
Roy
Crosby
Ovechkin
Jagr
Lidstrom
Hull Sr.
Plante
Harvey


Probably forgetting someone. But in my opinion, those guys are all at least worthy of the debate. The fact that the list is full of Canadians is simply because for a long time the superstars were basically all Canadian.

 

[Lempo]

NHL really knows how to schedule these draft things from Finnish perspective People who are interested enough to watch can have the experience twice. First watch during night and because being so drunk not to remember at the morning and have the same tension a new.

There's fights gonna be happening at Midsummer Night when a drunken moron yells "Palju!" and another drunken moron misheards him: "Pulju!?"

Or more theologically, "Matthews!" "No, St. John's, dimwit!"

So heads up, players of the traditional Jatkoaika Super-Triple.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Nope. Tretiak and Lidstrom are two examples of non-Canadian generational players.

It's just a rare term. It's not an insult for a guy to not be said to be generational. Laine is a superstar in the making, he'll step into an NHL lineup and be an immediate star.

It's a poor term is what it is. If you're using Lidstrom as an example (which I agree he is), then you can't close the book on Laine potentially being generational because we don't know what he's capable of at the NHL level, much like no one knew what Lidstrom was capable of (otherwise he would have been drafted a lot higher).

It's a buzz word that people clamour to when trying to describe how high a certain prospect's potential might be. The only time it's really accurate is when it's applied to a player once their career is over (like Lidstrom). That's why it's a poor term. Alexandre Daigle was deemed a generational prospect leading up to the draft, Lidstrom was not, yet when their careers ended, the opposite held true.

 

[snipes]

It's a poor term is what it is. If you're using Lidstrom as an example (which I agree he is), then you can't close the book on Laine potentially being generational because we don't know what he's capable of at the NHL level, much like no one knew what Lidstrom was capable of (otherwise he would have been drafted a lot higher).

It's a buzz word that people clamour to when trying to describe how high a certain prospect's potential might be. The only time it's really accurate is when it's applied to a player once their career is over (like Lidstrom). That's why it's a poor term. Alexandre Daigle was deemed a generational prospect leading up to the draft, Lidstrom was not, yet when their careers ended, the opposite held true.

Good analysis. It's one of those "you know it when you see it" type of things. That's the exact problem with it. It's just a term that should be very, very rarely used.

Laine will be great, no doors are closed on the kid.

 

[PhilJets]

Just for giggle, I try to list the NHL guys I would put under "generational" label.

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Beliveau
Richard
Shore
Bourque
Hasek
Roy
Crosby
Ovechkin
Jagr
Lidstrom
Hull Sr.
Plante
Harvey


Probably forgetting someone. But in my opinion, those guys are all at least worthy of the debate. The fact that the list is full of Canadians is simply because for a long time the superstars were basically all Canadian.

The top 4 are gods, the rest are Demi gods

 

[Jukkis]

Man I love Finland. Looking forward to the upcoming night.

Greetings from Finland

 

[Gabranth]

It's a poor term is what it is. If you're using Lidstrom as an example (which I agree he is), then you can't close the book on Laine potentially being generational because we don't know what he's capable of at the NHL level, much like no one knew what Lidstrom was capable of (otherwise he would have been drafted a lot higher).

It's a buzz word that people clamour to when trying to describe how high a certain prospect's potential might be. The only time it's really accurate is when it's applied to a player once their career is over (like Lidstrom). That's why it's a poor term. Alexandre Daigle was deemed a generational prospect leading up to the draft, Lidstrom was not, yet when their careers ended, the opposite held true.

That's very true. I don't think Lidstrom was considered to be "generational" in his draft class where he went 53rd overall. But here we are years later and he is one of the best defenseman ever.

 

[ZINFINITY16]

If leafs win second overall tn Laine will go from potential 35 goal scorer to potential second liner on here in minutes

 

[QnebO]

If leafs win second overall tn Laine will go from potential 35 goal scorer to potential second liner on here in minutes

35? Potential? Like next year or ceiling?

You've got ceiling wrong. Even Barkov scored 29 goals in 65 games. He could end up as 35 goal guy very well, but Ceiling is very wrong if that was your call for ceiling.

 

[Plural]

35? Potential? Like next year or ceiling?

You've got ceiling wrong. Even Barkov scored 29 goals in 65 games. He could end up as 35 goal guy very well, but Ceiling is very wrong if that was your call for ceiling.

I think you got the message all wrong.

 

[QnebO]

I think you got the message all wrong.

Whoops I see it now. I just don't get the leafs jokes well enough, I think they're respectable team actually.

 

[Chased By Trolls]

Also like "Marre" says, he played whole regular season 3rd and 2nd lines, where he hasn't player or centers who was more 4th line type of players and plays more in boards and don't haven't passing skills or IQ to make a play.

This season Tappara lacked depth in a serious way, resulting in the management having to play Laine in the 2nd and 3rd units with average line mates instead of the first line (where he should have been).

Oh boy. I'm not sure where you guys get this argument but it has very little to do with reality. If you take a look at the actual numbers you can very clearly see that Tappara this year were an exceptionally deep team in terms of offensive production. In fact they had 6 forwards score 15 goals or more (most in the league) and 8 forwards had atleast 30 points (most in the league; Kärpät, Lukko and HIFK were second with 5 each). It's clear that the 2nd and 3rd liners aren't quite as good as the 1st liners (duh), but still it baffles me to read all this utter nonsense about lacking depth and having boatloads of 4th liners.

Reading posts like these, people who don't follow the league could easily get the idea that he's leading a bunch of scrubs to the championship. The fact of the matter is that they've now been to the finals 4 years in a row. This year was the first time they actually won it, but its not like they haven't been close before (actually lost in game 7 overtime last year AND the year before).

Jan-Mikael Järvinen is not playmaker, he plays more in boards or goes straight to the goal with limited playmaking skills.

You're talking about the guy who for the previous two seasons centered one of the best offensive lines in the league, namely Jormakka-Järvinen-Palola. In the process Palola won the goal scoring title twice, becoming the only player in league history to do so in consecutive seasons. Järvinen is most definitely a playmaker, there's just no way anyone who's seen him play extensively could claim otherwise. Typically about 75% of his points are assists.

He did have a major slump in the playoffs this year, but that's another thing entirely.

If he had played all year with Kuusela and Lajunen in first line and get first PP time and limitless ice time, he have got that PPG or at least very close.

Had Laine been playing with Kuusela and Lajunen from the get go, he'd have been a PPG player without much doubt. He was Tappara's best player in the playoffs overshadowing Kuusela (who had 59 points in regular season in 56 games).

In my opinion there's practically no chance he would've been able to do that, because..

Laine, at the start of the season, looked vastly improved from year before and extremely talented. And still very raw and very 17. Laine at the end of season was a different beast.

This is absolutely true. Laine was nowhere near the same player in September as he is now. Obviously he had all the talent already, but his game has improved immensely during the last few months, especially after the WJC and even more so in the playoffs.

This is also why it's not very useful to compare Barkov's point totals to Laine's. They were at a different stage in their development, and Laine is still more raw than Barkov was at this time in his draft year. Laine's offensive ceiling is far beyond Barkov's reach.

Still it's tough to say where exactly that ceiling is. A lot depends on how much he can improve his acceleration. If he can get more power in those first few steps then he could become something really special and be nearly unstoppable. That wrister of his is already totally ridiculous. I've never seen anything like it around here before.

Let us whisper of a dream...