LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) IX

[Lempo]

That doesn't mean anything. Laine is an interesting person and he does have that confidence, of course IIHF wants to give MVP award to young player like Laine because of media sexiness. Not to take anything away from Laine, he played a good tournament, but he didn't deserve that MVP award.

Technically if media sexiness is a known criterion as it seems to be universally understood to be for an accolade like this (you yourself make that point), then Laine was fully deserving.

Let's face it, this is The Photo from the event, and I'm sure we Finns will be finding it on various international GDTs when we lose a match:

(unless you opt for the one with Putin and Perry hugging, but you're very questionable if you do)

 

[ijuka]

That doesn't mean anything. Laine is an interesting person and he does have that confidence, of course IIHF wants to give MVP award to young player like Laine because of media sexiness. Not to take anything away from Laine, he played a good tournament, but he didn't deserve that MVP award.

He deserves it for doing so well on a wing he cannot play.

 

[IFK]

Exactly. It doesn't mean everything, but it sure as hell means something...

Exactly, it means much get chosen MVP in WHC tournament and every professional who have asked to Laine's game was amazed, not only cause he was so young. Also those was other people who make judgement which players will be all-star team and Laine was that team, also other people chose best forward and who was that...? Laine. Also our team coaches chose him to be Top 3 Player on Finland team which won silver and again, Laine was one of the 3.

Then there was FEL and WJC awards.

 

[strat1]

Technically if media sexiness is a known criterion as it seems to be universally understood to be for an accolade like this (you yourself make that point), then Laine was fully deserving.

Let's face it, this is The Photo from the event, and I'm sure we Finns will be finding it on various international GDTs when we lose a match:

(unless you opt for the one with Putin and Perry hugging, but you're very questionable if you do)

If my main point is to convince people how good player Laine really is, i don't take that award as a proof to show his greatness. GretzkytoLemieux made that point and i replied to him saying what a trash award that really is.

Aho should have won it, without him finland would have probably lost to russia.

 

[ijuka]

http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-flyers/2016-nhl-draft-position-preview-left-wingers
http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-flyers/2016-nhl-draft-position-preview-right-wing


Laine as a right wing instead of a left wing when he hasn't played right wing for years, since he was 13 I believe.

 

[Lempo]

If my main point is to convince people how good player Laine really is, i don't take that award as a proof to show his greatness. GretzkytoLemieux made that point and i replied to him saying what a trash award that really is.

You said he didn't deserve that MVP award. I gots you on quote on that and all. An award you yourself said they are known to give out for the strangest reasons. We both know it's not a "like for realz" award as awards go, giving it to Laine now is not bringing its prestige down or anything.

 

[herestohoping]

That doesn't mean anything. Laine is an interesting person and he does have that confidence, of course IIHF wants to give MVP award to young player like Laine because of media sexiness. Not to take anything away from Laine, he played a good tournament, but he didn't deserve that MVP award.

DAMNN

 

[strat1]

You said he didn't deserve that MVP award. I gots you on quote on that and all. An award you yourself said they are known to give out for the strangest reasons. We both know it's not a "like for realz" award as awards go, giving it to Laine now is not bringing its prestige down or anything.

I thought that these are "real" awards. I think that this year award was given to Laine because of media sexiness but i never believed this type of reason would be possible until now.

 

[Lempo]

I thought that these are "real" awards. I think that this year award was given to Laine because of media sexiness but i never believed this type of reason would be possible until now.

As other fellows have said, his in-game performance was good enough to be a serious candidate, and I'm not sure if you can say someone was obviously more deserving and got snubbed by the award going to Laine.

It's not too different from Sochi 2014 where near-retired Teemu Selänne was the MVP. It was not wrong to give it to him, all things considered, and he did put up the game for it, but... you kind of find yourself questioning is someone at 43 for reals the MVP? But again, there's no obvious snub, so...

 

[ijuka]

And last year it was Jagr simply because it was his worlds retirement. It was as deserved a MVP award as any. And again, he performed great on the wing he doesn't play.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Aho should have won that award, He played very well against canada and russia.

That's funny. Aho was great in one game. He was a non factor in the rest. But still a great player, and absolutely filled his role. He was one of the top 6 forwards for team finland.

 

[strat1]

As other fellows have said, his in-game performance was good enough to be a serious candidate, and I'm not sure if you can say someone was obviously more deserving and got snubbed by the award going to Laine.

It's not too different from Sochi 2014 where near-retired Teemu Selänne was the MVP. It was not wrong to give it to him, all things considered, and he did put up the game for it, but... you kind of find yourself questioning is someone at 43 for reals the MVP? But again, there's no obvious snub, so...

Yeah good example, Award's main reason is to give more media-attention but that doesn't take away my main point what i made. I made that point clear to GretzkytoLemieux. I think that MVP trophy doesn't mean much if your goal is to proof player's greatness.


Maybe i guessed GretzkytoLemieux's aspect wrong.

 

[strat1]

That's funny. Aho was great in one game. He was a non factor in the rest. But still a great player, and absolutely filled his role. He was one of the top 6 forwards for team finland.

He and Granlund played amazingly in finals IMO.

 

[Lempo]

Yeah good example, Award's main reason is to give more media-attention but that doesn't take away my main point what i made. I made that point clear to GretzkytoLemieux. I think that MVP trophy doesn't mean much if your goal is to proof player's greatness.


Maybe i guessed GretzkytoLemieux's aspect wrong.

Yeah, I wasn't even commenting on that portion myself, and personally wouldn't be promoting anyone on he having had an MVP unless the performance had been totally earthshattering and obvious to all. In which case I would add qualified "truly deserved" to the MVP.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Aho should have won that award, He played very well against canada and russia.

I thought Granlund was actually the guy who should have won it and not Aho or Laine, with Shipachyov (Tho finishing 3rd obviously hurts his cause) probably deserving of consideration alternatively.

 

[psycho_dad*]

I thought Granlund was actually the guy who should have won it and not Aho or Laine, with Shipachyov (Tho finishing 3rd obviously hurts his cause) probably deserving of consideration alternatively.

I agree on Granny. But Laine was close enough for it to be justified which in itself is a massive accomplishment.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Exactly. It doesn't mean everything, but it sure as hell means something...

It means that padding the stats against weak competition can get you an MVP award. I guess they didn't pay regard to context in the voting.

The real MVP was Koskinen. I guess you could argue a case for Granlund, but without Koskinen we don't beat Russia in the semis and Denmark could have easily pulled an upset on us had Koskinen not provided strong goaltending early in the QF.

That's funny. Aho was great in one game. He was a non factor in the rest. But still a great player, and absolutely filled his role. He was one of the top 6 forwards for team finland.

This is not true. Aho played steadily great throughout the tournament having virtually no weak moments aside from the Gold Medal game, and was definitely a factor.

 

[psycho_dad*]

It means that padding the stats against weak competition can get you an MVP award. I guess they didn't pay regard to context in the voting.

The real MVP was Koskinen. I guess you could argue a case for Granlund, but without Koskinen we don't beat Russia in the semis and Denmark could have easily pulled an upset on us had Koskinen not provided strong goaltending early in the QF.



This is not true. Aho played steadily great throughout the tournament having virtually no weak moments aside from the Gold Medal game, and was definitely a factor.

In my opinion Aho was a bit lost in the first few games. I do think though that had he played in the #1 line and #1 PP instead of Jokinen, he would have been better than Jokinen in that role. I think Jalonen mismanaged both Aho and Laine and did not create optimal lines.

And I already said I think Aho did great. There were only 4 forwards that I can say played a better tournament for team Finland. He more than deserved to be there and earned his spot easily.

 

[ijuka]

In my opinion Aho was a bit lost in the first few games. I do think though that had he played in the #1 line and #1 PP instead of Jokinen, he would have been better than Jokinen in that role. I think Jalonen mismanaged both Aho and Laine and did not create optimal lines.

And I already said I think Aho did great. There were only 4 forwards that I can say played a better tournament for team Finland. He more than deserved to be there and earned his spot easily.

Jalonen mismanaged almost the entire team. It was sad to watch. I agree that Aho should have been in a playmaking role in the first PP and I would have had him in Jokinen's spot in 5v5 as well. Synergy and teamplay is underrated and Laine could have been on his actual wing. Aho could easily have handled the role. Aho was outplaying Granlund most of the time when they were on the same line.

 

[X66]

Jalonen mismanaged almost the entire team. It was sad to watch.

He got them to the Gold Medal game and had them has the favourites throughout the entire tournament.

He did just fine.

 

[IFK]

And last year it was Jagr simply because it was his worlds retirement. It was as deserved a MVP award as any. And again, he performed great on the wing he doesn't play.

Yes and he was so much more far a best player and his points and how he played wasn't close as good what Laine was in this year. Jagr was 22nd in points and his team wasn't even get medal in that tournament and almost always those player who selected MVP, all-stars, best players in tournament are players in gold or silver team and only some super individuals in tournament playing a teams who ending to 3rd or 4th and rare situations to players out of the first 4 teams.

You have to understand that there bunch of different people who will select players to be a best in tournament. There is media people who chose MVP and other media people who chose all-stars, then directorate select best forward, defender and goalie. There was different people who chose Laine to be at least 3rd best or best in every awards or honor what there is. Also Finland get silver and our team coaches select him to be one of the top 3 best player to our team. So directorate, media chose him best player or best forward and all-stars and also our coach chose him to be one of the best in our team, to team who land second in tournament. So it's not just one or two guys who think he was best or one of the best, there was lot of people who think he was best, also many other professional who was interviewed say same that he was one of the best if not best in WHC.

Individual Awards as selected by the Directorate:
Best Goaltender: Mikko Koskinen, Finland
Best Defenceman: Michael Matheson, Canada
Best Forward: Patrik Laine, Finland

Most Valuable Player as selected by the media:
Patrick Laine, Finland

All-Star Team as selected by the media:
Goaltender: Mikko Koskinen (FIN)
Defencemen: Nikita Zaitsev (RUS), Michael Matheson (CAN)
Forwards: Patrik Laine (FIN), Vadim Shipachyov (RUS), Mikael Granlund (FIN)

2000 Martin Prochazka and 2001 David Moravec was MVP but wasn't selected all-star team or best forward. 1999 Teemu Selänne, 2002 Miroslav Satan, 2005 Joe Thornton and 2007 Rich Nash was MVP and all-star team, but not best forward. Other years there have been consensus.

 

[IFK]

He got them to the Gold Medal game and had them has the favourites throughout the entire tournament.

He did just fine.

Yes, like you said, just fine.

But he could do better if he have put other our 2 best playmakers to other PP unit and not just put Aho to just stand in the middle in PP not use his best skills. Aho or Granlund have the skills and IQ to use Laine better in that PP unit, but maybe you don't understand cause you didn't know that they are so much better playmaking than Jokinen and also Jokinen is so secure so he play just secure also PP and couldn't use Laine the best way that he could use. Also maybe you actually don't watch Finland's game, but people in Finland have a almost (95% think the same) consensus to this. Also Aho and Laine know to how to other play and move in the ice so they have been deadly in that PP if our coach just put them in the same PP, just like WJC.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Does personality matter for fans when drafting a player or when they buy tickets to a game? Or it does not matter as long as the player is a productive good player.

I don't think the answer is as obvious as one may believe. The number 1 priority is to draft a great player. But you want to watch an entertaining team, with some flair and personality also.

This has nothing to do whether I think Laine is the top prospect or not in the draft. It is just a bonus to which ever team drafts him.

Great talent, with the added bonus of personality and flair to promote the NHL.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Does personality matter for fans when drafting a player or when they buy tickets to a game? Or it does not matter as long as the player is a productive good player.

I don't think the answer is as obvious as one may believe. The number 1 priority is to draft a great player. But you want to watch an entertaining team, with some flair and personality also.

This has nothing to do whether I think Laine is the top prospect or not in the draft. It is just icing on the cake to whoever drafts him.

The NHL might feature the most anonymous players (in particular superstar players) in pro sports. Personality is not only hard to demonstrate but is often times suppressed due to the culture.

 

[BB88]

He got them to the Gold Medal game and had them has the favourites throughout the entire tournament.

He did just fine.

Sadly there were lot of frustrating mistakes he did, those were talked about a lot during the tourney.

Getting to gold game doesn't mean ge maxed the potential of that group.