LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) IX

[ijuka]

what?? its clearly a defensive play. i disagree with Laine being as good as Pulju at defense due to skating though

Do you also think that Stamkos is better at defense than Barkov because he's a faster skater?

 

[Halberdier]

I picked this post from AM thread, since it's about Laine, not that much about AM.

Laine seems to be the more emotional player who has a reputation as being a hot headed player. Some players on Team Canada tried to exploit that by trying to get him to engage. Try to get into his head and make him take stupid penalties. To his credit Laine showed maturity by not responding.

There was no point to trying the same strategy agaist Matthews as he has a much calmer temperament and it's very difficult to get him to engage. If you know you are not going to get a response then there is no point even trying.

Many Finns took those actions by Team Canada as a sign of Laine's greatness when it was just some veterans trying to lure an 18 year old hockey player into losing his cool and making costly mistakes.

I'm wondering that from where comes Laine's reputation as being a hot headed player? I watched his entire FEL season, CHL-matches, WJC, EHT and WHC matches. Laine did remain the most calm player always, and never lost his temper.

His first penalty in FEL season was somewhere in the middle of the season, and it was some kind of borderline hooking AFAIK.

He was blaming himself every now and then, but never seemed to be frustrated about his team mates sometimes lousy plays or missed opportunities to score. Even at FEL finals after he made a hard shot, but directly to the goalies glove, Laine smiled and said to that goalie "marjoja" ("berries", like "it's as easy to take that shot than pick some berries").

Not a slightest trait of being hot headed. Don't know if he like speaks dirty to opponents, but at least that's not picked up by camera. Laine seemed to be fully in control when he did answer to some Canadians when they shouted at him. He seemed to enjoy the situation a lot, and did not lose his temper a bit, whereas Team Canada lost their game chasing him.

So Laine might have a reputation as a hot headed player, but at least for a year, nothing would have been more far from the truth. I would compare last season Laine to Barkov and Barkov senior, but that would be a blatant lie. Everybody can imagine Barkov jr. & sr. facial expression, which stays the same no matter what tornado, earthquake or lottery win hits.

 

[Aceboogie]

I love Laines attitude, just really confident. I think play wise Matthews has the edge, but I think Laine would thrive in a big market. He has the confidence to deal with the media. I love Matthews but he kind of seems sheepish like Kessel when it comes to the media

if you get chewed up and spit out by media and fans and that impacts your on ice play, that could be a big thing

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Do you also think that Stamkos is better at defense than Barkov because he's a faster skater?

C'mon man, you know very well that the arguments aren't analogous.

Either you have a short memory and you're too lazy to go back and reread what we have been discussed, or you're just trying to prolong this for the sake of it.

 

[BB88]

I love Laines attitude, just really confident. I think play wise Matthews has the edge, but I think Laine would thrive in a big market. He has the confidence to deal with the media. I love Matthews but he kind of seems sheepish like Kessel when it comes to the media

if you get chewed up and spit out by media and fans and that impacts your on ice play, that could be a big thing

Looking at that quote again I can't understand why some make it sound like he has attitude problems.

The guy has a dream and he's not afraid to say it.
To be the best player in the World and that drive will carry him and make him better.
That drive was a huge reason why he was scoring those tying goals in the last minute of games.

 

[X66]

Then you are blind or you ignore every hater posts.

No need to take this tone.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing players on flaws in their games.

But to label someone a hater for fairly arguing those points is not fair. It's not as if someone is saying "Laine is a bust" or "I can't see him breaking 15 goals a season", that is blatant hating.

People believe Laine has skating issues, that's fair. People have also argued that he can work on his skating, that is also fair.

He's going 2nd or 3rd in a very good top 3 draft, that's how good he is.

 

[Halberdier]

These comments really started when Laine closed the gap on Matthews, and in some cases even passed Matthews as the #1 rated prospect this draft in some corners of scouts or draft prognosticators.

Amount of these hate-filled comments exploded then, that's for sure.

But actually some Finnish posters started all this back then, when FEL season was going on, and most of these "AM BPA AINEC" guys hadn't seen a single game from Laine. Back then it was about couple of JP fans / Laine haters that kept posting on Laine thread every time when Laine did not score, and often even when he did score bashing his "bad game".

As an example, those clowns were bashing Laine's appearance at EHT, when he scored 0+0=0, but in fact was the best player on 1st game, and at least 2nd best on the 2nd game. Being 17, and playing his first NT games. Kojo was really thrilled about the performance of Laine and Aho in those EHT games, and that was one of the main reasons why he did dare to pick them to WHC.

At least one of these trolls did "die" completely, after Laine's unbelievable performance at FEL playoffs against Kärpät. I haven't seen a single post from him in Laine thread anymore.

 

[ijuka]

Amount of these hate-filled comments exploded then, that's for sure.

But actually some Finnish posters started all this back then, when FEL season was going on, and most of these "AM BPA AINEC" guys hadn't seen a single game from Laine. Back then it was about couple of JP fans / Laine haters that kept posting on Laine thread every time when Laine did not score, and often even when he did score bashing his "bad game".

As an example, those clowns were bashing Laine's appearance at EHT, when he scored 0+0=0, but in fact was the best player on 1st game, and at least 2nd best on the 2nd game. Being 17, and playing his first NT games. Kojo was really thrilled about the performance of Laine and Aho in those EHT games, and that was one of the main reasons why he did dare to pick them to WHC.

At least one of these trolls did "die" completely, after Laine's unbelievable performance at FEL playoffs against Kärpät. I haven't seen a single post from him in Laine thread anymore.

It's a funny coincidence that most of these Finnish Laine-haters have their city as "Oulu" or "Helsinki" that just happened to be the teams who Laine eliminated in semis and finals.

Another coincidence is how some people with city as Oulu think that Puljujärvi is better than Laine.

 

[psycho_dad*]

I'm going to guess the 5-10 Finnish fans who are overselling him and spamming the entire forum with it.

That would be an extremely irrational reason to hate on a prospect. "Some people think he will be great, I'm not having any of that! It's HIS fault!"

Nobody is spamming the forum with it, people are just conversing about him as a prospect and making predictions for future based on available data. They might be right, they might be wrong, that is the nature of predictions...but to hate a prospect for having people believing in him (and him believing in himself) is just petty and insecure.

When a guy has a never before seen pre draft season that easily trumps every other comparable (people who have played in european mens league and in IIHF tournaments in that year) player in the past...no **** some people will think he can become something huge. They have every reason to, it's a logical assumption and can easily be justified by just showing what he has accomplished. It's not feeling based, it's fact based. And people getting offended by it are feeling based, in other words irrational.

What I mostly see from Laine doubters is that they have been convinced (for a good reason) that Matthews will be leafs pick, so they have had to buy that pick and run with it and defend it to a bitter end. They want Leafs to draft a #1 center which is very understandable because they have not had one since Sundin. They want Matthews to be the best player out of that draft as well, forever. And for some reason, some fools think that going all in with claims about his superiority and focusing on Laine's weakness is going to make a difference in their careers. It won't. They will be compared for their accomplishments in the future too.

It's a logical fallacy called choise-supportive bias.

 

[Halberdier]

It's a funny coincidence that most of these Finnish Laine-haters have their city as "Oulu" or "Helsinki" that just happened to be the teams who Laine eliminated in semis and finals.

Another coincidence is how some people with city as Oulu think that Puljujärvi is better than Laine.

I do know only one HIFK fan that hates Laine, and only very few Kärpät fans. Actually it seems that most of those Kärpät and HIFK fans did turn into true believers when they did see how Laine was causing their team to lose (just watch that nick IFK, who sometimes makes me feel uneasy with his quite rampant fanboyism towards Laine, though he is often right).

Similarly I was high on Aho even when he was the guy that caused our team (Tappara (~= Halberd)) to lose 2015 finals.

I do know IRL some Ilves fans that do hate Laine. Some people around Tampere region hates him because of his mother, who was not the easiest person to deal with when Patrik was younger. At least that's what they (parents of Ilves juniors) say. And Patrik himself was a very cocky back then and he has admitted that. Nowadays Pate is so humble and nice, what makes it easy to love him, at least for the people that do not hate winners and elite talents. It's Finland, so you can find a lot of those, that hate everybody that's not as average than them.

Some people have even openly admitted that they wish Laine bad luck and failing. For example before WHC some posters at Finnish jatkoaika.com did wish that Laine fails at WHC. Though some said also that about our goalie, Koskinen, so that we would get Saros to the net.

 

[93LEAFS]

People really don't understand what hating on someone is. If you don't like objective comments find a "safe-place." Saying you don't see the comparisons to Lemieux, or you don't think he's as good as Matthews aren't hating on him. Hating on him would be something like this. "He's a bust waiting to happen, he can only shoot and play on the power-play, he can't skate at all and will be back in Finland in 5 years."

Rationally questioning what his upside is, and how he compares to the other top prospect isn't hating on him, its expressing a valid opinion. If you think that is hate, maybe hockey forums aren't for you. Claiming that anyone who doesn't share the opinion Laine is the best player in the draft, and is close to McDavid is hating on him, just leads to pointless rhetoric.Some of the personality quotes may be overblown, and that may fall into, but its not like their is a wide conspiracy against Laine. Most Leaf fans want whats best for their team, and most view Matthews as being that, that doesn't make Laine a bad prospect because people think he should go 2nd, or even in extreme cases 3rd. I've yet to see people saying he shouldn't go in the top 10, hell I don't think I've seen anyone saying he shouldn't go top 3. Every prospect on thsi board gets questioned all the time, and within reason, that is what we are here to discuss. You want to see hating on a player, dig up a main board Dion or Kessel thread from the past 3 years.

 

[Legion34]

Looking at that quote again I can't understand why some make it sound like he has attitude problems.

The guy has a dream and he's not afraid to say it.
To be the best player in the World and that drive will carry him and make him better.
That drive was a huge reason why he was scoring those tying goals in the last minute of games.

There is nothing wrong with him saying he wants to be no 1, and his season made the leafs decision much harder. He did. There is a realistic (although small) chance he goes 1. The kid did that. He had a great year. The attitude concerns come from his own behaviour over the course of years. He got kicked off a team. He admits it. People get concerned about that. Supporters always try to minimize it. Evander Kane's attitude problems were behind him... Til they weren't.

Josh Hosang, Kirill Kabanov, Nikita Filatov, Anthony Deangelo, Patrick Kane, Phil Kessel.

These were all players with noted "attitude issues" at draft time and shortly thereafter. Some were unfounded, some grew out of them, some play well in spite of them, some don't.

There is nothing wrong with having pause about a kid who 18 months ago got kicked off a team.....

He should have confidence in what he did. He should believe in himself and want to be the best. Thats not what people are concerned with. Whether the concerns will be unfounded we will see....

 

[FinPanda]

I don't hate Laine and I hoped he would be the first Finnish 1st overall pick. But after I saw Matthews play, he is the best player in this draft.

Have been rooting for Laine whole season.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

This board is amazing. No matter how warranted the criticism is anyone who raises some gets labeled as "Laine hater." It's as if Laine is above all criticism, Mr. Perfect having no holes in his game. And God forbid if you're a Finn or Leafs fan and have even the slightest doubt about the tiniest part of his game, you're automatically condemned.

Can't wait for the draft to be over and be done with all this crap.

 

[BB88]

There is nothing wrong with him saying he wants to be no 1, and his season made the leafs decision much harder. He did. There is a realistic (although small) chance he goes 1. The kid did that. He had a great year. The attitude concerns come from his own behaviour over the course of years. He got kicked off a team. He admits it. People get concerned about that. Supporters always try to minimize it. Evander Kane's attitude problems were behind him... Til they weren't.

Josh Hosang, Kirill Kabanov, Nikita Filatov, Anthony Deangelo, Patrick Kane, Phil Kessel.

These were all players with noted "attitude issues" at draft time and shortly thereafter. Some were unfounded, some grew out of them, some play well in spite of them, some don't.

There is nothing wrong with having pause about a kid who 18 months ago got kicked off a team.....

He should have confidence in what he did. He should believe in himself and want to be the best. Thats not what people are concerned with. Whether the concerns will be unfounded we will see....

Laines attitude problems were years ago, if he ha now I'd be worried about and would understand it, but if all the coaches/experts love him here I doubt there are huge problems, or our NHL vets giving compliments to him.

But if you have again read some of the comments during the compine week they have been embarrassing and going really far while trying to make up he has still attitude issues, twisting every word he has said in interviews.

 

[Romang67]

People really don't understand what hating on someone is. If you don't like objective comments find a "safe-place." Saying you don't see the comparisons to Lemieux, or you don't think he's as good as Matthews aren't hating on him. Hating on him would be something like this. "He's a bust waiting to happen, he can only shoot and play on the power-play, he can't skate at all and will be back in Finland in 5 years."

Rationally questioning what his upside is, and how he compares to the other top prospect isn't hating on him, its expressing a valid opinion. If you think that is hate, maybe hockey forums aren't for you. Claiming that anyone who doesn't share the opinion Laine is the best player in the draft, and is close to McDavid is hating on him, just leads to pointless rhetoric.Some of the personality quotes may be overblown, and that may fall into, but its not like their is a wide conspiracy against Laine. Most Leaf fans want whats best for their team, and most view Matthews as being that, that doesn't make Laine a bad prospect because people think he should go 2nd, or even in extreme cases 3rd. I've yet to see people saying he shouldn't go in the top 10, hell I don't think I've seen anyone saying he shouldn't go top 3. Every prospect on thsi board gets questioned all the time, and within reason, that is what we are here to discuss. You want to see hating on a player, dig up a main board Dion or Kessel thread from the past 3 years.

But there are people hating on him on these boards. If you can't see that, you're either willingly ignoring those posters, or you choose to believe that only the most extreme stance qualifies as hating on a player.

Wouldn't you agree that saying that the kid has serious character issues because he says he wants to be the best is way past objectively pointing out flaws? Comments about his skating being way too bad for NHL hockey was also thrown out there during the WHC.

Countering one extreme with another doesn't lead to a progressive discussion, and saying that people don't understand what hating is, only to proceed to imply that anything but saying that Laine will be a complete bust that won't stick around in the NHL is being objective is a pretty black and white viewpoint.

 

[Legion34]

Laines attitude problems were years ago, if he ha now I'd be worried about and would understand it, but if all the coaches/experts love him here I doubt there are huge problems, or our NHL vets giving compliments to him.

But if you have again read some of the comments during the compine week they have been embarrassing and going really far while trying to make up he has still attitude issues and is cancer.

Weren't they like 1 year ago? I don't know the kid. I think its unfair for people to look at third hand info in a 2nd language (updated reports now in interviews) and read into what he said.

He got kicked off a team not too long ago. That is a concern for a no 1 overall pick. Sorry it is. He could prove that meant nothing in a few years, but a kid cleaning up his act and miraculously changing from a poor teammate (by his own admission) is not something you want in a first overall.

I think the leafs could take him. Thats why I watched him after WJC. It is possible. He is just soo much more risk reward.

 

[Legion34]

But there are people hating on him on these boards. If you can't see that, you're either willingly ignoring those posters, or you choose to believe that only the most extreme stance qualifies as hating on a player.

Wouldn't you agree that saying that the kid has serious character issues because he says he wants to be the best is way past objectively pointing out flaws? Comments about his skating being way too bad for NHL hockey was also thrown out there during the WHC.

Countering one extreme with another doesn't lead to a progressive discussion, and saying that people don't understand what hating is, only to proceed to imply that anything but saying that Laine will be a complete bust that won't stick around in the NHL is being objective is a pretty black and white viewpoint.

Again he got kicked off a team like a year ago. Thats not made up. The kid admits he was a poor teammate. Maybe he is magically a better person (it can happen). People can change for a short period of time, its harder to change forever.

No one is saying a bust. I have never seen that. People react in the context of the better than OVY, best prospect since crosby.

 

[93LEAFS]

But there are people hating on him on these boards. If you can't see that, you're either willingly ignoring those posters, or you choose to believe that only the most extreme stance qualifies as hating on a player.

Wouldn't you agree that saying that the kid has serious character issues because he says he wants to be the best is way past objectively pointing out flaws? Comments about his skating being way too bad for NHL hockey was also thrown out there during the WHC.

Countering one extreme with another doesn't lead to a progressive discussion, and saying that people don't understand what hating is, only to proceed to imply that anything but saying that Laine will be a complete bust that won't stick around in the NHL is being objective is a pretty black and white viewpoint.

I acknowledge the character stuff is overblown in my post. I think most people who bring up the character issues are basing it more on the U-18 incident (which is a valid discussion point), more than his confidence. Granted, tons of people think Zlaten is a headcase for doing the exact same thing.

People are legit calling people haters for saying they don't think he's Lemieux, or the fact you don't believe its a valid comparison. That is clearly not hating on him. Its expressing a different viewpoint.

 

[BB88]

Weren't they like 1 year ago? I don't know the kid. I think its unfair for people to look at third hand info in a 2nd language (updated reports now in interviews) and read into what he said.

He got kicked off a team not too long ago. That is a concern for a no 1 overall pick. Sorry it is. He could prove that meant nothing in a few years, but a kid cleaning up his act and miraculously changing from a poor teammate (by his own admission) is not something you want in a first overall.

I think the leafs could take him. Thats why I watched him after WJC. It is possible. He is just soo much more risk reward.

I think it's closer to 2 years than 1.
And he's been under crazy spot light here for the last year, and there have been zero articles about him acting out or doing something bad.
This is a crazy hockey country, and the media would love to go after those headlines but he hasn't given any reasons to.

His driving test was talked about for weeks here, him going to cut his hair was big news here
He doesn't like to party, he just wants to play hockey and be the best player in the league.

 

[Boxscore]

I'm a fan of Laine but he better be the real deal considering he's the only prospect in ANY recent draft (as long as I can remember) that has gone on record saying he "should be taken 1st overall because he WILL be the best player in the world within 5 years." I'm not saying he can't / won't deliver the goods... but way to put a target on your head, kid. LOL

 

[93LEAFS]

I'm a fan of Laine but he better be the real deal considering he's the only prospect in ANY recent draft (as long as I can remember) that has gone on record saying he "should be taken 1st overall because he WILL be the best player in the world within 5 years." I'm not saying he can't / won't deliver the goods... but way to put a target on your head, kid. LOL

I remember atleast one kid who said similar things, he slipped to the late 1st and is probably starting in the AHL next year (Not that I think Ho-Sang and Laine are similar)

 

[Romang67]

Again he got kicked off a team like a year ago. Thats not made up. The kid admits he was a poor teammate. Maybe he is magically a better person (it can happen). People can change for a short period of time, its harder to change forever.

No one is saying a bust. I have never seen that. People react in the context of the better than OVY, best prospect since crosby.

But people aren't saying that he has serious character issues as a response to that. They're saying it as a response to his saying that he will be as good as Ovi in 5 years. That's hardly an objective stance regarding Laine's character, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Romang67]

I acknowledge the character stuff is overblown in my post. I think most people who bring up the character issues are basing it more on the U-18 incident (which is a valid discussion point), more than his confidence. Granted, tons of people think Zlaten is a headcase for doing the exact same thing.

People are legit calling people haters for saying they don't think he's Lemieux, or the fact you don't believe its a valid comparison. That is clearly not hating on him. Its expressing a different viewpoint.

But people are also overreacting to everything he does right now, and take it as confirmation that he does indeed have character issues.

If people believe that Laine has character issues so strongly that everything he says is a sign of character issues to them, wouldn't you agree that those people probably hate Laine?

There is a significant step from saying that his being kicked off a team is troubling to saying that his lying down during a video interview at 3pm shows that he has character issues. I'd say that the people arguing the second point probably hate the kid, for some unknown reason. Whether it's an extreme stance in response to wanting Matthews be much better in every way, or it's just a sign that these people are troubled, that's not up to me to say.

I do, however, maintain that no objective person would argue the second point, which is why I take issue with your saying that the hating doesn't exist because it's either people arguing that Laine == Lemieux (ridiculous) or objective people questioning flaws.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I acknowledge the character stuff is overblown in my post. I think most people who bring up the character issues are basing it more on the U-18 incident (which is a valid discussion point), more than his confidence. Granted, tons of people think Zlaten is a headcase for doing the exact same thing.

People are legit calling people haters for saying they don't think he's Lemieux, or the fact you don't believe its a valid comparison. That is clearly not hating on him. Its expressing a different viewpoint.

In fairness to the Lemieux comparison it was only one head scout to my knowledge to make the comparison. It is one Head Scout's opinion. And should be treated as such. Agree or disagree, but not hated on.

Upon watching Laine’s masterful showing at the U20 World Juniors, another head scout suggested that Laine “reminded him of a young Mario.”

Those fortunate enough to have experienced the NHL career of Magnificant Mario Lemieux will no doubt see certain similarities in the style of Laine. His ability to dangle the puck anywhere within his body range, front, back, and side – combined with an innate sense for where the puck can be protected – is a bit eerily reminiscent of Lemieux.

http://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2016-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-mar-2016/